Plenty, you can get an AK that holds 50 rounds. From what I've read on SA, he had multiple weapons.
Plenty, you can get an AK that holds 50 rounds. From what I've read on SA, he had multiple weapons.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
And from the sounds of it, there were 0 security guards for an event holding 700 people.
Hope is the denial of reality
Don't forget he was on a small island, with nowhere to go for people and nobody to intervene either. I understand Norwegian police aren't even armed so even if they would have been available they wouldn't have been able to do a lot of good. Compare it to shooting fish in a barrel, whichever way you go, you draw blood.Originally Posted by Loki
What kind of a gun lets you kill 80 people?
Congratulations America
I read one automatic and one handgun.
Congratulations America
It takes time for someone to reload, no? At some point, people have to risk their lives and get the guy before he kills more. It seems no one did that here.
Hope is the denial of reality
I think you wouldn't see many more official security at a scout gathering of that size. Probably they had their own people to keep order. And again, police wouldn't have made much of a difference as they aren't armed either.And from the sounds of it, there were 0 security guards for an event holding 700 people.
Congratulations America
Yeah, but a lot of people were in the water or hiding, so I guess it's not so easy to organise an assault at exactly the right time. Also, reloading one weapon at a time always keeps you with a gun ready to fire.
Congratulations America
Do you usually see guards carrying assault rifles when you pass by schools? This was a summer camp for teenagers, aged 16 and up. There was certainly security I hope, but not anyone with firepower to counter two men with automatic weapons.And there are armed police in Norway. They are just special units that you do not see in the streets. The effect is the same, of course, but on a separate note, I and mostly everyone else here prefer it that way.
Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?
automatic weapons can clear an area in no time at all. In you have multiple weapons you can reload without skipping a beat. No one gets the time to be a hero.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Can you imagine how many times he'd have to reload to kill 80 people? And it's rather hard to aim one gun well while you're reloading another. At some point it became obvious that this guy was out to kill every person he came across, and if there was some decent security guards in the area, I would imagine they'd try to stop the guy.
Two men? I thought it was one?Do you usually see guards carrying assault rifles when you pass by schools? This was a summer camp for teenagers, aged 16 and up. There was certainly security I hope, but not anyone with firepower to counter two men with automatic weapons.
This isn't the first time someone went on a shooting rampage with an automatic weapon; this is the first time anywhere near this many people were killed (in recent memory at least)...
According to the current news reports, he had one automatic weapon and one pistol.
Hope is the denial of reality
The people present (including my friend) said that they heard shots from two different areas vastly apart of each other. Many witnesses has also described a man without a police uniform having shot people. So it's a definite likeliness that there was a second guy. There was a person arrested today with a knife, which might or might not be him.
Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?
You don't know what weapon he had, or what size clip he had, so you don't know how many times he had to reload. If he had high capacity clips he would have had to reload once, maybe twice. From what the SA boards are saying he gunned down most of the organizers and security type people when they helped him unload at the dock.
witnesses are reporting 1 dressed as a cop, and one that was not.Two men? I thought it was one?
and you think this creates a "hero window"?According to the current news reports, he had one automatic weapon and one pistol.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Okay, first you show us that you don't know anything about explosives and now you try to tell us that you're an expert in unarmed self-defense against automatic weapons?
Geeze, man.
Which reminds me: Isn't the whole point of ammo clips that you don't spend so much time reloading?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
That would make more sense. I wonder why the American papers haven't picked up on this.
Hope is the denial of reality
I also read that he first shot down a lot of people, and used a shotgun to shoot victims in the head from close range. That would explain the high number of deaths, especially because people could not get away.
It's news to me that Norway is a multi-cultural paradise.Right wing extremist and staunch opponent of the multicultural Islam-friendly society kills at least 90 people, most of them young social democrats. This is horrible. I shudder to think that this sort of thing may take root in Scandinavia
Maybe he wanted to be caught so that he could be a symbol? Or...just an insane and evil person who doesn't want to martyr himself.
What worries me is that the bomb is estimated to have only needed 500kg of the 6 tons fertilizer he bought. If there are more people behind it, then there might be more to come.
Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?
I can't imagine any native Norwegian group, even an extremist one, supporting these kind of actions. According to the guy's wiki page, he's left some other groups because they weren't extreme enough for him.
Hope is the denial of reality
In an unclassified 2011 national security outlook published by the Norway Police Security Service (PST) in February 2011, the service said it saw a picture of "increased uncertainty."Right wing extremist and staunch opponent of the multicultural Islam-friendly society kills at least 90 people, most of them young social democrats. This is horrible. I shudder to think that this sort of thing may take root in Scandinavia
Part of that was due to what it called an expected increased level of activity in 2011 by far-right militants.
"Norwegian far-right extremists are in contact with Swedish far-right extremists, as well as with other far-right extremist groups in Europe. Contact also takes place between Norwegian and Russian far-right extremists," it said.
Far right extremists in Europe aren't in the business of killing dozens of Aryan folk.
Hope is the denial of reality
Not even those with diametrically opposed political views? Strange.
And here I was thinking that our extreme right regularly clashes with the extreme left, regardless of ethnicity.
"Oi, there's a punk! Let's beat him up!" - "Naw, he's got blonde hair and blue eyes, let's leave him be."
Not to mention my personal experience where a group of Finns, me among them, was chased through Nuremberg by a bunch of Nazis. Yeah, that Aryan archetype really helped the Finns!
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Crazies do as crazies will. This isn't about left or right.
Terrorist attacks (failed, foiled or completed) by origin in the EU in 2010:
Wonder why the UK doesn't specify source.Islamist: 3 (1%)
Separatist: 160 (64%)
Left Wing/Anarchist: 45 (18%)
Right Wing: 0 (0%)
Single Issue: 0 (0%)
Unspecified (UK): 40 (16%)
Total: 249
Source: https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/...te-sat2011.pdf
And how often do they gun down leftist youths? Sorry, but the European far right might kill some immigrants or gays, or perhaps kill a lefty in an isolated incident, but this kind of attack is beyond them.
Hope is the denial of reality
What if they percieve those dozens of Aryans as traitors ?
I would first like to see the second man apprehended before I will take serious the claim that he wasn't alone. It's bloody hard for people to recognize the direction a sound comes from.
Congratulations America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbi...ional_suspects
Well, they actually were in the business of gunning down quite a lot of them. However, since '45, there's been a lot less gunning down anyone in general, y'know?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Even then. I can't think of any attempt by a far-right group to actually kill a significant amount of white people. They operate through intimidation and isolated stabbings, not large-scale attacks.
Hope is the denial of reality
A far right group planted a nail bomb outside a gay club in London in '99. It only killed three people, but I certainly think it counts as an attempt.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Miss the part where I said they do go after immigrants and gays? And a nail bomb is hardly going to kill dozens of people, is it? More like an attempt at intimidation.
Hope is the denial of reality
The only similarity, and barely a similarity at that. McVeigh's was a several tonne truck bomb that ripped half of a ~dozen story building off. This one... looks like it barely blew out the windows. 100+ kills versus 8. McVeigh's bomb was the main event, and he set it up to blow as big as possible. Seems like this one was almost just a diversion to keep the police busy while he shot as many people as could.
We'll see, but it's just not similar, except in the most superficial and unimportant ways.
No. Assuming you have your clips at the ready, you can literally reload as fast as you can move the clip from where ever it is to your weapon. Less than a second if you know what you're doing and have practice.
First of all, it's Europe. Half the time, their cops don't even carry firearms, so it's hard to believe event security at a rally would be armed, let alone armed to fight someone with an automatic assault rifle. Seriously, if you're not within an arm's length of someone with a [drawn] gun, you're not going to be able to disarm him... let alone when that someone who can rip off 30 rounds and reload in the time it takes you to make 3 steps.
Running, unarmed, towards an automatic-wielding manic (in little to no cover, from the looks of the pictures) is a mistake that you don't get the option to repeat... but on the bright side, you'll be dead before you realize you've fucked up, so at least it's not a slow death.
That's probably a little low. 80 kills, even with 50 round clips and two reloads, that's a kill (a little better than) every other shot, which seems ridiculously high for an automatic weapon, even firing into an unarmed crowd. Just doesn't happen - rounds miss (especially with an AK-47, which has notoriously difficult-to-control muzzle rise), you end up putting multiple rounds into the same target and so on. Maybe, maybe with a heavy automatic weapon where you get lots of over-penetration, but even that's a stretch/
My guess would be more like half a dozen reloads, even with high capacity mags. One kill every 4 or 5 shots seems a lot more reasonable - and you gotta figure someone who's decided to go on a killing spree by shooting into a crowd isn't gonna travel light on ammo or be big into trigger-discipline, so it may well have taken even more reloads than that.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
My mistake, it wasn't a "gay club", just a pub that happened to be in the heart of the Gay District in London. None of the victims were actually gay or ethnic to my knowledge - one was a pregnant white woman. And, yes, a nail bomb is probably capable of killing dozens of people depending on where it is set off.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
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