When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
This problem didn't start with police shootings, Rand, or with fear of harm by the police. You're looking at the latest expression and pretending it is sui generis. This is not new. When did the problem start? It started with the "Great Migration" in the 1920s as black people left the South and rural areas and moved into the industrialized cities. It started with discrimination older than country and policing standards/assumptions which have not changed in all that time.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Quite the opposite I think it is old, which is why it is a chicken and egg situation. Every police officer alive and on active duty today has always known such violence. Every black criminal alive today has always known such violence. This is a classic chicken and egg situation and I fail to see how a migration nearly a century ago was the Police making this bed ...
We're talking about the communities and their reaction to police action, both lawful and unlawful. Remember? Go take another look at that reply I wrote to Lewk which prompted your objection. You're going to sit there and claim that the African-American community inculcated the belief in the various police departments that their default response is to riot?
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
I'm going to sit there and claim that "the African-American community"* has inculcated the belief in the various police departments that they are more violent and dangerous and self-defence is a bigger issue, yes absolutely. The Police are reacting to consistently the most violent criminal offenders in the nation, not just rioters.
* I hate that phrase, its not a community, it's criminals who are African-American not the entire community that are the issue - just as its the bad eggs within the Police that are the issue too.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7239291.html
Officers ordered Frazier to get on the ground, to which he responded, “Leave me alone,” according to his nephew Quartaze Woodard. When order to the ground once more, Frazier gave them the same response. Police then opened fire, according to Mr Woodard.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Man, cops have been acting like shitheads towards innocent black people and terrorizing black communities since time immemorial. Moreover, there has, for decades, been a worrying trend among American cops towards using excessive and frequently lethal force against not only black people but people in general. But sure let's focus on how Black people are responsible for the racial prejudices and crappy training of American cops.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
It must really suck to be trying to defend the police in America.
HEADLINE: American police fatally shoot black man unarmed black man because they thought he had a gun, but turned out to just be a cell phone
"That's pretty sad, but there are a lot of guns and gun violence in America so you can hardly blame them for coming to the wrong conclusion"
HEADLINE: American police fatally shoot unarmed black man with his hands in the air who was shouting "don't shoot me I'm unarmed"
"Obviously, that's pretty terrible but it was just one officer"
HEADLINE: American police walk past a black man's house and shoot him 12 times because dropped a spoon, and they thought it was a gunshot
"When you think about it, aren't BLM the real racists?"
HEADLINE: American police tase a black man who was putting out the garbage in front his home, then shot him, then his dog, then dynamite his house, then call in an air strike which levels the entire block, claiming they felt threatened
"police have to put their lives on the line every day, you know"
HEADLINE: American shoot disabled black man with no arms or legs in the face 35 times. they say he was reaching for a weapon.
"Just a few bad apples"
HEADLINE: American police conduct a spree killing through a shopping mall, shooting all the black men they can see
"yeah, but what about black on black violence?"
HEADLINE: American police shoot the entire black population of Florida, claiming they were resisting arrest
"..."
Like, at what point do you stop, revise your original position actually admit there's a problem?
Last edited by Steely Glint; 09-16-2016 at 08:05 PM.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
You don't think it a little telling that he was shot in the face? Pretty sure he was reaching for it with his mouth. You shouldn't underestimate how dangerous that is. Limbless people are really fast with their heads, all it takes is a fraction of a second and bam an innocent police officer is dead.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Rand, do everyone a favor and actually read the material someone is replying to before you think to interject. Lewk talked about, and I replied to, the COMMUNITY REACTION to police action in the black community. You want to post your stream of consciousness like GGT, go ahead, but don't try and couch it as a reply to me.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
http://chrisblattman.com/2016/09/16/14593/
More isolated incidents.
Hope is the denial of reality
I understand that, however what I fail to understand is how you can take that in isolation from the context the Police are acting in. The actions of the Police is the one side of the coin, the violent community of criminals the Police deal with every day is the other. I don't understand how you can just take one side alone and view it as being uniquely responsible.
Who are armed and empowered because of the criminals and to deal with the criminals. That is their job. You want to isolate people doing their job (badly or otherwise) from that which they were employed to deal with, because they are employed to deal with it by the state?
Nobody is saying that. But your not doing your work is not a justification for your students not doing theirs, especially if your students aren't doing work in every other lecturers class too.
And where does shooting a guy trying to eat his dinner or beating up a Google manager fit into that?
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
This is the behaviour BLM and everyone else in this thread is complaining about. Did you just admit everything you've been saying on this topic is actually just a massive derailment tactic?
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
At least you admit it isn't solely based on race like most liberals. There have been bad police shoots that didn't involve minorities no cries of racism are sounded. Why is it whenever a minority individual is on the receiving end of a bad shoot the automatic assumption is racial bias?
Managing their relations with the community is part of their job. Dealing with those violent offenders and protecting the rest of the community from them is also part of their job. At every level of consideration wrt what leads to the community reactions, the responsibility is with the police. They are uniquely responsible because every single part of it is their literal area of responsibility.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
I'm confused by what you mean 'that is part of their job.' Because it is someone's job you can ignore the very real dangers and stressers inherit to the situation? Asking people to simply 'do their job' in places that regularly have shot outs with people who attack emergency vehicles (firefighters, ambulances) is pretty absurd. You can't ignore what difficulties the police just trying to 'do their job.'
Just because it is their area of responsibility job wise does not mean and never has meant they are uniquely responsible. That's like saying 9/11 and every other terrorist attack was uniquely the responsibility of the intelligence services because it is their responsibility to prevent terrorist attacks, that is their job, so therefore the terrorists are not at all responsible themselves
Yes the Police are responsible, but so too are the criminals. Just because the Police have the job of dealing with them does not excise any responsibility from those that are committing crimes and creating a dangerous environment for the public and the Police. Again you need to look at the full picture not half of it.
No my position the whole thread is that the whole picture needs looking at and that unacceptable behaviour needs tackling on all sides I've suggested mandatory body cams and abolishing the second amendment as part of that. Simply saying that the Police have too much of a justified reason to pull the trigger because of the very real grave danger they face does not mean they are always justified when they do.
If a clearly unarmed man is gunned down then that should be dealt with properly. The problem is that in America too often it is not clear. In that last link of which I know too little to comment the relative who called the police said the man who ended up getting shot was armed. I wish we had body cams to know what happened next rather than just hearsay.