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Thread: Zionuts

  1. #31
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    I don't know much about her history. I doubt she got conspiracy theoristy and retained her job. But, it's always been my opinion that the real person comes out when drunk and when losing mental faculties in old age. SO agreed, if she lets loose with this stuff now, it's probably been something she's always felt.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    After someone tells a people who were fleeing genocide to go back "home" to the location of said genocide, I just can't take anything they say credibly.
    Wait. Please don't tell me you ever took anything Helen Thomas said with any credibility.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    I don't know much about her history. I doubt she got conspiracy theoristy and retained her job. But, it's always been my opinion that the real person comes out when drunk and when losing mental faculties in old age. SO agreed, if she lets loose with this stuff now, it's probably been something she's always felt.
    Ever since she left UPI ten years ago and started writing opinion pieces, she's been much more vocal, but she's always had a combative approach at White House press conferences. It's just that this time she was caught on camera saying something really bad. Now that she doesn't have any job to keep, she's just stepped up the rhetoric even further.

  4. #34

  5. #35
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    "I am only interested in protesting against Israel" pretty much sums up most of the Israeli criticism people
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  6. #36
    Eh, the problem with this kind of thing is that the pro-Israel guy wasn't quite right, so he ends up looking like a demagogue (though of course the uninformed anti-Israel protester looks stupid as well) - it also didn't help that he expanded the protester's stupidity to a general attack on 'progressives'. The situation in Israel is nuanced and hardly perfect - for example, there are some legitimate concerns with Israel's blockade of Gaza from both a realpolitik and a humanitarian perspective (the stuff about building supplies is partly true, though there are good reasons why they restrict those imports). I wouldn't say they're wrong, but perhaps not thinking strategically. Similarly, the whole racism issue in Israel is alive and well, and just because some rabbis (okay, many very prominent rabbis) and most of the political establishment blasted the 'not selling to Arabs' letter as completely unacceptable doesn't mean that it's troubling so many signed onto it - or that racism isn't a very real problem in the general populace. (Hell, I'm unconvinced when a few imams or whatever weakly protest the latest fatwa or similar ridiculous statement to come out of the Muslim world - that such ideas are widely discussed at all is its own evidence.)

    That being said, there certainly are a lot of reflexive Israel bashers out there.

  7. #37
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    And a lot of reflexive Israel defenders as well, my mother among them. Me, I'm more of a "curse upon both of their houses" kind of guy.

    But yeah, I find these little cartoon political vignettes to be very manipulative. They over-simplify things to make one side look reasonable and the other to look ridiculous.
    Last edited by ']['ear; 12-30-2010 at 06:51 PM. Reason: typo

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    I don't like to post in here too often, but I couldn't resist this one:

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...lease-1.328373



    So... because Erdogan and his party are portrayed in a poor light by the leaked documents (including a rather unfortunate bit alleging he has large quantities of money in Swiss bank accounts)... it must be the Joos who leaked it!
    I missed this before. Hilarious and sad at the same time. Because Assange looks sooo Jewish, does he not? Like those bleached-out Rastafarian-looking guys in the Matrix sequels, maybe?

    A sad reminder that Arab and Persian states perpetually use Israel as a scapegoat to distract from the warts of their own governments. In this case, Erdogan's own corruption and idiocy. Can't say I'm surprised. Sigh.

  9. #39
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Eh, the problem with this kind of thing is that the pro-Israel guy wasn't quite right, so he ends up looking like a demagogue (though of course the uninformed anti-Israel protester looks stupid as well) - it also didn't help that he expanded the protester's stupidity to a general attack on 'progressives'. The situation in Israel is nuanced and hardly perfect - for example, there are some legitimate concerns with Israel's blockade of Gaza from both a realpolitik and a humanitarian perspective (the stuff about building supplies is partly true, though there are good reasons why they restrict those imports). I wouldn't say they're wrong, but perhaps not thinking strategically. Similarly, the whole racism issue in Israel is alive and well, and just because some rabbis (okay, many very prominent rabbis) and most of the political establishment blasted the 'not selling to Arabs' letter as completely unacceptable doesn't mean that it's troubling so many signed onto it - or that racism isn't a very real problem in the general populace. (Hell, I'm unconvinced when a few imams or whatever weakly protest the latest fatwa or similar ridiculous statement to come out of the Muslim world - that such ideas are widely discussed at all is its own evidence.)

    That being said, there certainly are a lot of reflexive Israel bashers out there.
    I agree, the whole exercise is one of blunt force trauma.

    But that's sorta what ideological wars boil-down to. 'Tis all about the message.

  10. #40
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    Yup. Mind control. Rush Limbaugh (or Michael Moore to avoid partisanship).

  11. #41
    Hah! Remember the Zionist squirrels and sharks? Now Saudi Arabia has found Zionist vulture spies:

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/internat...d-spy-1.335171
    Quote Originally Posted by Ha'aretz
    A vulture tagged by scientists at Tel Aviv University has strayed into Saudi Arabian territory, where it was promptly arrested on suspicion of being a Mossad spy, Israeli and Saudi media reported Tuesday.

    The bird was found in a rural area of the country wearing a transmitter and a leg bracelet bearing the words "Tel Aviv University", according to the reports, which surfaced first in the Israeli daily Ma'ariv.

    Although these tags indicate that the bird was part of a long-term research project into migration patters, residents and local reporters told Saudi Arabia's Al-Weeam newspaper that the matter seemed to be a "Zionist plot."

    The accusations went viral, with hundreds of posts on Arabic-language websites and forums claiming that the "Zionists" had trained these birds for espionage.

    The Sinai regional governor last month suggested that a shark that killed and maimed tourists on its Red Sea port may have been intentionally released by Israeli agents in order to sabotage the country's tourist industry.

    "What is being said about the Mossad throwing the deadly shark in the sea to hit tourism in Egypt is not out of the question. But it needs time to confirm," Mohamed Abdel Fadil Shousha said, according to the British Sun newspaper.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Of course they are so great at using animals for espionage that they tag them like that
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  13. #43
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    What the fuck is wrong with these dingbats? Spying fracking vultures? Really?

    I sososososo wish that we could just shut off all demand from oil, and then let the mideast and Persia work their way out of the stone age by themselves.

  14. #44
    To be fair, it doesn't look like an official Saudi government position, just some stupid locals. There have been much more prominent groups who have made similar claims; a few years back IRNA ran a story about spying squirrels. Also, it's not like the military has never thought of using animals for their work - the US has trained dolphins as minesweepers and the like. But obviously this particular application is rather ridiculous.

  15. #45
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    "What is being said about the Mossad throwing the deadly shark in the sea to hit tourism in Egypt is not out of the question. But it needs time to confirm," Mohamed Abdel Fadil Shousha said, according to the British Sun newspaper.
    You gotta admire the intellectual vigor of a guy who takes the time to confirm something like that. Most people would be all, "oh, it's another Zionist plot" but no, this guy doesn't just make assumptions. He's going to patiently wait to confirm that Mossad threw a shark in the sea (how else could it have got there!?) before he accuses Israel.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
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  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    To be fair, it doesn't look like an official Saudi government position, just some stupid locals. There have been much more prominent groups who have made similar claims; a few years back IRNA ran a story about spying squirrels. Also, it's not like the military has never thought of using animals for their work - the US has trained dolphins as minesweepers and the like. But obviously this particular application is rather ridiculous.
    Dolphins: basketball-sized brains
    Vultures: acorn-sized brains (well OK, perhaps walnut)

    And the shark bit is frackin hilarious. Um, didn't y'all know that proportionately sharks almost never attack humans? Shipping a bunch of sharks to the Red Sea (SEA, mind you) would be spectacularly inefficient.

    Which leads me to the main point. Such propaganda is particularly dependent on the ignorance of your audience, which is a specialty of Arab/Persian autocracies: have very ignorant populations who then respond favorably to idiotic scapegoating.

  17. #47
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    And the shark bit is frackin hilarious. Um, didn't y'all know that proportionately sharks almost never attack humans? Shipping a bunch of sharks to the Red Sea (SEA, mind you) would be spectacularly inefficient.
    keep in mind those are zionist trained sharks.
    Which leads me to the main point. Such propaganda is particularly dependent on the ignorance of your audience, which is a specialty of Arab/Persian autocracies: have very ignorant populations who then respond favorably to idiotic scapegoating.
    Well yeah, IF they would use vultures to spie they sure as hell would not tag them with an Israeli tag
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  18. #48

  19. #49
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    ...The United States, she said, failed to get a lot of countries to do what it wanted, despite speaking out, as it has in the case of Israel. It also bears a disproportionate burden for settling the world’s conflicts, she said.

    Mrs. Clinton noted that the United States was the largest financial donor to the Palestinian Authority — an implicit rebuke of Arab states, which champion the Palestinian cause, but in the view of critics, do too little to support its efforts to build institutions on the West Bank.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/wo...o.html?_r=1&hp

    Not quite Zionuts, but I like the honesty of the last two paragraphs.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #50
    To be fair, the US and Israel have generally branded anyone who refuses to play ball with them a terrorist group (often with good reason), which means that Arab states are leery of providing support for Palestinian institutions outside of US-approved channels (due to sanctions and the like). They're also unhappy about using a US framework, though, since that gives them little say in what happens and looks bad on the Arab street. Support for Hamas-affiliated social service organizations is generally off-limits, which means that real help for Gaza (which needs it far more than the West Bank) is tough to manage outside of UNRWA. Meanwhile, help for the West Bank institutions is tightly controlled by Israel, especially when it comes to security arrangements. Growing portions of PA security forces have been trained under US auspices in Jordan, and they are by far the most professional of the PA forces (and most willing to coordinate with the IDF); can you imagine Israel allowing Saudi or UAE or Egypt (or Syria) to do something similar? Hell, given the chronic corruption and poor training in most of their own security forces, I can't imagine that they would turn out recruits worth half as much as the US-trained forces.

    Honestly I don't think money is the problem; the real issue is the corruption endemic to the PA's political system, which siphons much of the aid and stifles real reform. I doubt the Arab states can do much about this.

  21. #51
    Not quite Zionuts, but amusing nonetheless. The IDF just appointed a new spokesperson, who was somewhat of a controversial choice given that he has no media experience (he's a decorated special forces veteran and a lawyer, among other things). Ha'aretz had this to say about it:

    Lotan has no media experience whatsoever. Nevertheless, the prevailing assessment among both journalists and the staff of the IDF Spokesman's Office was that his long experience in both negotiations and psychological warfare operations would stand him in good stead.
    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...esman-1.335471

    Negotiations and psychological warfare to meet with a bunch of reporters, eh?

  22. #52
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Ironically, he may be the one to crack under pressure.

  23. #53
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Barak defected from Labour.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  24. #54
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...9?hpid=topnews

    Not quite Zionuts, but Walid Jumblatt is now backing Hezbollah.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  25. #55
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    They must really be pressuring him down south.

  26. #56
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    How big is that "Jew York" thing in the US these days? Can I expect Sarah or other Pubbie incumbents to address this issue in hilariously redneck-pandering terms?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  27. #57
    Nessie, I haven't a clue what you're asking. Seriously.

    On another note, I find it incredibly depressing that the so-called 'Palestine papers' that al-Jazeera just released with the Guardian are being denied as lies by the Palestinian leadership precisely because it shows them making reasonable concessions to the Israelis during negotiations. Presumably, that's because the Arab world would be shocked to find Palestinian negotiators willing to discuss core issues in a reasonable manner. The papers make the Israelis look much worse, but it's the Palestinians who are panicking. This world is fucked up.

    (Now I have my doubts about the authenticity of the papers, but that's neither here nor there. The reaction is what's depressing.)

  28. #58
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Nessie, I haven't a clue what you're asking. Seriously.
    Okay, straight face, no sarcasm in the following, and I would love a response

    I have several accounts saying that the "conservative movement" has a voter base mostly in the South where the phrase "Jew York" is a common term, indicating that Jews are overly represented in governance and finance and so on, the Weimar Germany stuff pretty much unaltered. These are the types of people who hate Catholics and the wrong breeds of protestants, unless they're Catholics. I'm sure they're very nice people, but they're not exactly the picture of tolerance.

    Now, we also know that the Pubbie election cycle will be a circus. You have Sarah, that Mormon guy, Donald fucking Trump, these are people who are all trying for the presidency of the Free world! So my question is, in what likelyhood are any of these conservative, dim-dum jackasses going to say something retarded about Jews?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I have several accounts saying that the "conservative movement" has a voter base mostly in the South where the phrase "Jew York" is a common term, indicating that Jews are overly represented in governance and finance and so on, the Weimar Germany stuff pretty much unaltered. These are the types of people who hate Catholics and the wrong breeds of protestants, unless they're Catholics. I'm sure they're very nice people, but they're not exactly the picture of tolerance.

    Now, we also know that the Pubbie election cycle will be a circus. You have Sarah, that Mormon guy, Donald fucking Trump, these are people who are all trying for the presidency of the Free world! So my question is, in what likelyhood are any of these conservative, dim-dum jackasses going to say something retarded about Jews?
    I find it unlikely that any of the front-runners will get caught saying anything disparaging about Jews (e.g. 'Jews control the media', 'Jews control finance', 'Jews control the Democratic/Republican party', etc.) though I have no doubt that a number of prominent politicians may privately hold such opinions. No one is stupid, and whether the offensive comment comes from the left (e.g. Rev. Wright) or the right (Pat Buchanan) they pretty much lose any chance of legitimacy in politics.

    I have no doubt that there are plenty of antisemites and racists and the like left in America (though I wouldn't restrict them to the South), but publicly pandering to such sensibilities is a recipe for political suicide. There is a fairly large 'moderate' chunk of Americans who are repelled by such rhetoric, and who punish candidates who use it. This, incidentally, is why I find it unlikely Palin has much of a chance at national office (not specifically having to do with Jews, of course, but more generally her incendiary rhetoric). Certainly demagogues do use various proxies for the 'Jew' - bankers, 'mainstream media', neoconservatives, etc. - but they'd never link it to a specific group without serious political fallout.

    That being said, I'd like to emphasize that it's not specifically the hard core 'conservative base' that may harbor such sentiments towards Jews - it's a pretty common complaint in lefty circles as well - whether it's haranguing about insider connections of Jews from finance or the media that are latently anti-liberal, or Jewish neocons who distort US foreign policy towards the right. It's easy to blame the Jews for pretty much anything, despite the fact that (a) Jews aren't so powerful, and (b) those Jews who do exercise influence pull in all policy directions, so there's hardly a unified 'Jewish' position on much of anything.

  30. #60
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    I'm sure we'll have a US election thread and we can suss out about Sarah in there, but I appreciate your time to explain the Jewish angle to us others.

    I'm especially interested in the idea of left-wingers against Jews, can you point me toward some sources (if you can't be bothered to explain yourself)? I have no clue why people are so obsessed with Jews.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

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