Zionuts

[Aimless]

Congratulations to the middle east's only democracy on, er, the latest thing

[BluntHorse]

-

[RandBlade]

Well done for Israel stiking at the heart of Hamas and Hezbollah leadership in the past 24 hours, as well as exposing once more Iran's impotency.

I deplore the tragic suffering on both sides, especially in Gaza, since the vile atrocities of Hamas in October last year. Taking the fight to the leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah etc is better than innocent Palestinians suffering for their leaders depravity.

[Loki]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1rwr8lj9jro

I'm willing to believe that a handful of Gaza journalists were Hamas operatives, but the idea that this applies to all 108 Palestinian journalists killed by Israel beggars belief. At this point, Israel is just trying to see how many violations of international law it can get away it. By comparison, 153 journalists were killed during the entire Syrian Civil War. And no one can accuse Assad of caring about international law.

[Loki]

I have no doubt that the campaign against Shapiro for supporting Israel while being Jewish is why we ended up with Walz (who is no less a supporter of Israel). The anti-Semitism angle aside, it is ironic that Israel's war ended up blocking a Jew from becoming a US vice-president.

[Aimless]

I have no doubt that the campaign against Shapiro for supporting Israel while being Jewish is why we ended up with Walz (who is no less a supporter of Israel). The anti-Semitism angle aside, it is ironic that Israel's war ended up blocking a Jew from becoming a US vice-president.

The most vibes-oriented and progressive campaign picked a remarkably genuine santa lookalike with star power and a long track record of doing progressive things over a boring careerist weathervane that nobody has particularly warm feelings about... because the latter is Jewish. Mate, be serious... it was never gonna happen and nobody wanted it to happen

[Loki]

I don't think you realize the scale of the campaign that was waged against him in the past week. While those same people ignored Walz's trip to the West Bank or presentation at AIPAC.

[BluntHorse]

-

[RandBlade]

I never said any of what you put in quotes.

I don't want to see innocent Palestinians suffer, but Israel absolutely has a right to defend herself and to seek to vanquish Hamas, especially after the 7 October attacks last year.

I'd like to see fewer innocent Palestinians and innocent Israelis caught in the crossfire, as well as a change in leadership in Israel (I dislike both Netanyahu and Likud) but targeting Hamas and Hezbollah leadership is absolutely the right thing to do.

If Hamas wants the war to end, it only needs to surrender unconditionally.

[Aimless]

Update from the world's most moral army: Israeli Army Uses Palestinian Civilians to Inspect Potentially Booby-trapped Tunnels in Gaza

'Our lives are more important than their lives': Gazans not suspected of terrorism are detained and sent as human shields to search tunnels and houses before IDF soldiers enter, with the full knowledge of senior Israeli officers, several sources say

[BluntHorse]

-

[Aimless]

Update from the world's most moral army: Israeli Army Uses Palestinian Civilians to Inspect Potentially Booby-trapped Tunnels in Gaza

Chilling to hear HA Hellyer of RUSI & CEIP saying?on CNN?that consensus among his colleagues is converging on a lower bound of 100,000 people killed in Gaza.

Any state that kills 100,000 people should be made a pariah state. Any individual who supports such violence should be made a social pariah.

[Aimless]

We Served on Israel's Sde Teiman Base. Here's What We Did to Gazans Detained There

Hands and feet in shackles. Eyes blindfolded. No moving. No talking. And, sometimes, violent beatings. Days upon days, weeks upon weeks pass like this at the Sde Teiman facility for Hamas terrorists and Palestinian civilians from Gaza. These interviewees know. They served there

...

Not long after the facility began to operate, testimonies were published in both Israeli and foreign media to the effect that detainees there were being starved, beaten and tortured. It was also alleged that the conditions of detention did not conform to international law. Further allegations were made concerning the treatment at the field hospital set up nearby. Staff testified that detainee-patients were fed through a straw, forced to relieve themselves in a diaper and handcuffed so tightly, for 24 hours a day, that there were a number of cases of amputation of limbs.

Two months ago, it was learned that the Israel Defense Forces was conducting a criminal investigation against soldiers allegedly involved in the death of 36 detainees in the camp. Last month, 10 reservists were arrested there on suspicion of brutal sexual abuse of an inmate. Regular or reservist soldiers assigned to Sde Teiman are subordinate to the military police, which has ultimate authority over the goings-on there.

...

"When I got back to my company people were already whispering about the place. Someone asked if I'd heard about what was happening there. Someone else said, 'You know you have to hit people there,' as though he was taunting me and wanted to test my reaction, whether I was a leftist or something like that. There was also a soldier in the company who boasted that he'd beaten people at the facility. He told us that he had gone with a shift officer from the military police and they had beaten one of the detainees with clubs. I was curious about the place, and the stories sounded a little exaggerated to me, so I pretty much volunteered to go there.

...

"The inmates sat in eight rows on the ground, with about eight people in each. One hangar held 70 people and the second around 100. The military police told us that they had to sit. They were not allowed to peek out from their blindfolds. They were not allowed to move. They were not allowed to talk. And that if… what they [the military police] said was that if they broke the rules, it was permitted to punish them."

How were they punished?

"For minor things, you could force them to stand in place [for about 30 minutes]. If the person continued to make trouble, or for more serious violations, the military police officer could also take him aside… and beat him with a club."

Do you remember such an incident?

"One time someone took a peek at a female soldier – at least, that's what she claimed… She said he peeked at her from under the blindfold and was doing something under his blanket. The thing is that it was winter and they had 'scabies blankets'… like army issue [rough, coarse blankets]. And they were always scratching underneath. I was at the other post and wasn't looking in that direction. Then she called the officer and told him. The detainee was sitting in the first row and he was like… well, sort of a problematic guy. After all, they're not allowed to talk. It seemed to me that over time, some of them became on edge… unstable. Sometimes they would start to cry, or begin to lose it. He was also one of those, who didn't look very stable.
...

In the meantime he [the officer] called another soldier from his company, who was then in the rest area, who was always talking about how he wanted to beat the detainees.

"The soldier grabbed a club and they removed the detainee from the pen and took him to this kind of hidden place behind the chemical toilets near our rest area. I stayed at my post but I heard the sounds, a sort of knocking. About a minute, a minute and a half, went by, and they came back with the guy. You could see red marks on his arms, around the wrists. When they brought him into the lockup he shouted in Arabic, 'I swear I didn't look [at her].' He lifted his shirt and you could see there were bruises and a little blood around the ribs.

...

Dr. L., a physician in a public hospital

...

"Other than the fact that there was no surgeon there, which is inconceivable at a place like that, the medical team was very professional. Everyone really tried – if you ignore the fact, that in my eyes, at least… to hold a person without letting them move any of their limbs, blindfolded, naked, under treatment, in the middle of the desert… in the end it's no less than torture. There are ways to administer even poor treatment, or even to torture a person, without crushing cigarettes on them. And to hold them like that, unable to see, move or talk, for a week, 10 days, a month… that is no less than torture. Especially when it's clear that there is no medical reason. Why shackle the legs of a person with a two-day-old stomach wound? The hands aren't enough?

"But in the end, what's happening there is total dehumanization. You don't really relate to them as if they're real human beings. It's easy to forget that when they don't move and you don't have to talk to them."

And it goes on like that. The systematic dehumanization and crimes hinted at behind the testimonies make Abu Ghraib look like a spa retreat.

Every western nation should have imposed sanctions on these war criminals months ago. Instead we have ordinary western men with incandescent divorced loser energy trivializing or excusing or even praising this campaign like they all have brain worms. Despicable.

[BluntHorse]

-

[Aimless]

There is no childhood in Gaza

[at least] 15k children dead, 19k orphaned, thousands more maimed... their pain is just beginning.

The dumbest most feckless manbabies on earth would have you believe that this is unavoidable or even necessary, or that the people subjecting children to such violence are not in fact responsible for their own actions.

But Israel?like the nations providing it with political cover and weapons?is led by adults with full agency. These atrocities are a matter of choice; so too is the failure to condemn them. I will never understand how parents can justify such brutality against children. Well, I guess I do?stupidity and bigotry tend to go hand in hand, after all.

[BluntHorse]

-

[Aimless]

There's no need to be weird about it, it's because the forum is inactive; people have RL jobs and relationships to mismanage. And partly because even the useless debate-brained chodes on earth understand on some level that these atrocities are indefensible... but it's mostly the other thing.

[wiggin]

There's no need to be weird about it, it's because the forum is inactive; people have RL jobs and relationships to mismanage. And partly because even the useless debate-brained chodes on earth understand on some level that these atrocities are indefensible... but it's mostly the other thing.

Or maybe, Minx, the only people posting regularly here are a ludicrously offensive troll and you. I determined about a decade ago that directly engaging with you was not a productive use of my time - after a number of years of seeing you post regularly. It only took me a day to come to the same realization about BluntHorse.

[Aimless]

Or maybe, Minx, the only people posting regularly here are a ludicrously offensive troll and you. I determined about a decade ago that directly engaging with you was not a productive use of my time - after a number of years of seeing you post regularly. It only took me a day to come to the same realization about BluntHorse.

What an interesting coincidence; I decided around the same time I had nothing to gain from giving any consideration to the views of a man so hopelessly out of touch with humanity that he'd willingly sacrificed his moral compass on the altar of online debate. Sorry mate, but the way you approach the basic humanity of Palestinians isn't much less offensive - or weird - than Sohaib's behavior; it's just a little more polite.

[LittleFuzzy]

There's no need to be weird about it, it's because the forum is inactive; people have RL jobs and relationships to mismanage. And partly because even the useless debate-brained chodes on earth understand on some level that these atrocities are indefensible... but it's mostly the other thing.

It's because you've spent more than a decade as the more reasonable sounding half of a pair (the person serving as your more obsteperous echo has changed over the years as the forum has dwindled) determined to drive off all dissenting voices. Congratulations. You've won. There is no one left to disagree with you. No one left at all.

[Aimless]

Go ahead mate, disagree about something. Dissent away

[BluntHorse]

Absolutely nothing is weirder or more offensive than inhumane, bloodthirsty racism and propaganda that allows for the moral acceptance of ethnic cleansing, genocide, rape, murder, lying, stealing, torture and gas lighting to the detriment against a particular group of people for something they do not control.

Juxtaposed to that, I am more than happy to be regarded as an 'offensive troll' or be exhibiting 'weirdo behaviour'.

It's just sad that the satirical approach does not help you to see clearly how horrible a position you hold.

It's amazing of how ostensibly intelligent people who have unlimited information at their fingertips can turn a blind eye to a literal genocide, and all its trimmings. Must be the lifetime of indoctrination of thinking how morally and/or intellectually superior you are. Or perhaps there are religious motivations.

I can sleep well at night knowing I don't take part in, or support a literal genocide unfolding before our eyes.

[Loki]

I'm convinced the settler movement is attempting to provoke another intifada. They can't be that oblivious to the consequences of their actions.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c207j6wy332o

[Steely Glint]

Probably more indifferent than oblivious.

[Aimless]

I'm convinced the settler movement is attempting to provoke another intifada. They can't be that oblivious to the consequences of their actions.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c207j6wy332o

They're addicted to impunity and believe they benefit either way. I have more questions about those who support the govt. and military force that supports these terrorists and "extremists".

[LittleFuzzy]

I'm convinced the settler movement is attempting to provoke another intifada. They can't be that oblivious to the consequences of their actions.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c207j6wy332o

I expect they want one. They're convinced, either from religious zealotry or sheer political delusion, that if they can only get their domestic opposition on board, they can seize and settle all of Palestine and maybe beyond.

[Dreadnaught]

Chilling to hear HA Hellyer of RUSI & CEIP saying?on CNN?that consensus among his colleagues is converging on a lower bound of 100,000 people killed in Gaza.

Any state that kills 100,000 people should be made a pariah state. Any individual who supports such violence should be made a social pariah.

Are you copy pasting these? What's with the question marks?

Is a state that kills 1,000 people not a pariah state? What about a state that kills a million? Should we start litigating the Bangladesh Liberation War or the Partition of India?

Notwithstanding your numbers are made-up.

I expect they want one. They're convinced, either from religious zealotry or sheer political delusion, that if they can only get their domestic opposition on board, they can seize and settle all of Palestine and maybe beyond.

Agreed.

[Loki]

I expect they want one. They're convinced, either from religious zealotry or sheer political delusion, that if they can only get their domestic opposition on board, they can seize and settle all of Palestine and maybe beyond.

I do suspect they think if there's a West Bank intifada, they can basically claim all of the West Bank.

[Loki]

Are you copy pasting these? What's with the question marks?

Is a state that kills 1,000 people not a pariah state? What about a state that kills a million? Should we start litigating the Bangladesh Liberation War or the Partition of India?

Notwithstanding your numbers are made-up.

It's a reasonable estimate if you include non-direct causes of death stemming from such a bloody conflict (lack of access to medicine, lack of shelter, insufficient food, etc.). It's pretty rare to have violent deaths be the primary cause of death of similar conflicts, unless the goal is ethnic cleansing/genocide.

[LittleFuzzy]

It's a reasonable estimate if you include non-direct causes of death stemming from such a bloody conflict (lack of access to medicine, lack of shelter, insufficient food, etc.). It's pretty rare to have violent deaths be the primary cause of death of similar conflicts, unless the goal is ethnic cleansing/genocide.

Ethnic cleaning is being alleged though and Israel has given those allegations fertile soil.