It's kind of understandable considering how much Mubarak poisoned the view of the general public toward Israel/Jews.Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
It's kind of understandable considering how much Mubarak poisoned the view of the general public toward Israel/Jews.
Hope is the denial of reality
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ck-Caucus.html'If asking a billionaire to pay the same tax rate as a Jew, as a janitor, makes me a warrior for the working class, I wear that with a badge of honour. I have no problem with that. It's about time,' he said...
Hope is the denial of reality
What? Obama slips up all the time, he's just not a media whipping boy like Bush, so every gaffe isn't repeated by every media outlet for 3 months. I mean, Christ, Obama's the POTUS who bowed to the mayor of Tampa.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
I don't know what's more disturbing.
A) That Turkey rejected help from a neighbor that can mobilize very well trained rescuers and medical professionals very quickly. Or,
B) Turkey has rejected help from everyone, including a neighbor that can mobilize very well trained rescuers and medical professionals very quickly.
Turkey declines Israeli aid offer
Sun, Oct 23 2011
By Maayan Lubell
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Turkey declined an offer of aid from its former strategic ally Israel Sunday after a powerful earthquake struck southeast Turkey, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said.
"I am under the impression the Turks do not want our help," Barak told Channel 2 News. "Right now (their answer) is negative but if they see they need more aid and don't have it, or if they rethink it, we have made the offer and remain prepared (to help)," he said.
A Turkish foreign ministry official said later that Turkey had received offers of help from dozens of countries after the magnitude 7.2 quake, and had so far declined assistance from all of them.
Relations between Israel and Turkey have been frayed since Israeli commandos killed nine Turks during a raid on an aid flotilla bound for the Israeli-blockaded Gaza Strip in 2010.
Tension rose last month when Turkey expelled the Israeli ambassador after Israel refused to apologize for the killings, saying its marines acted in self-defense in confrontations with pro-Palestinian activists on one of the vessels.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he had told all branches of government to offer whatever help they could to the people of Turkey. "I think this is what neighbors should be doing with one another," he told reporters.
Israeli President Shimon Peres spoke with his Turkish counterpart Abdullah Gul earlier Sunday in what was believed to be their first conversation since the envoy was expelled.
"At this difficult time Israel is willing to provide any aid required anywhere in Turkey and at any time," Peres told Gul, according to a statement issued by Peres's office.
Gul told Peres that Turkey was still assessing the damage from the earthquake and that he hoped Turkish rescue teams could handle the disaster, the Israeli statement said.
Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said Israel was willing to provide "anything from food, medicine, medical staff and equipment to search-and-rescue teams."
Despite their fraught relations, Turkey sent fire-fighting planes in December last year to help Israel battle a brush fire that killed 41 people.
Emergency workers battled to rescue people trapped in buildings in the Turkish town of Ercit and surrounding districts near the border with Iran. A local official said many people were killed or injured and tents and rescue teams were needed urgently.
Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor said Israel must "do what we can to rebuild ties with Turkey" which he described as a strong, stable state and Western ally in a turbulent region.
"Both countries, which can be and were once, anchors of stability in the Mideast, have a joint interest in co-operating and I hope this returns," Meridor told Channel 1 television.
Israel has sent rescue teams to Turkey in the past after earthquakes struck. In 1999, an Israeli military rescue team pulled a 10-year-old Israeli girl from the rubble of a collapsed building in Cirarcik in northwest Turkey, where her family was on holiday. She had been trapped for nearly 100 hours.
The team spent a week in Turkey, rescuing 12 people and recovering 140 bodies. Israel also set up a field hospital in the region, where two large quakes that year killed more than 20,000 people, treating more than 1,000 victims.
(Writing by Maayan Lubell; Editing by Tim Pearce)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79M25I20111023
I don't know what's more disturbing.
A) That Turkey rejected help from a neighbor that can mobilize very well trained rescuers and medical professionals very quickly. Or,
B) Turkey has rejected help from everyone, including a neighbor that can mobilize very well trained rescuers and medical professionals very quickly.
Turkey declines Israeli aid offer
Sun, Oct 23 2011
By Maayan Lubell
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Turkey declined an offer of aid from its former strategic ally Israel Sunday after a powerful earthquake struck southeast Turkey, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said.
"I am under the impression the Turks do not want our help," Barak told Channel 2 News. "Right now (their answer) is negative but if they see they need more aid and don't have it, or if they rethink it, we have made the offer and remain prepared (to help)," he said.
A Turkish foreign ministry official said later that Turkey had received offers of help from dozens of countries after the magnitude 7.2 quake, and had so far declined assistance from all of them.
Relations between Israel and Turkey have been frayed since Israeli commandos killed nine Turks during a raid on an aid flotilla bound for the Israeli-blockaded Gaza Strip in 2010.
Tension rose last month when Turkey expelled the Israeli ambassador after Israel refused to apologize for the killings, saying its marines acted in self-defense in confrontations with pro-Palestinian activists on one of the vessels.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he had told all branches of government to offer whatever help they could to the people of Turkey. "I think this is what neighbors should be doing with one another," he told reporters.
Israeli President Shimon Peres spoke with his Turkish counterpart Abdullah Gul earlier Sunday in what was believed to be their first conversation since the envoy was expelled.
"At this difficult time Israel is willing to provide any aid required anywhere in Turkey and at any time," Peres told Gul, according to a statement issued by Peres's office.
Gul told Peres that Turkey was still assessing the damage from the earthquake and that he hoped Turkish rescue teams could handle the disaster, the Israeli statement said.
Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said Israel was willing to provide "anything from food, medicine, medical staff and equipment to search-and-rescue teams."
Despite their fraught relations, Turkey sent fire-fighting planes in December last year to help Israel battle a brush fire that killed 41 people.
Emergency workers battled to rescue people trapped in buildings in the Turkish town of Ercit and surrounding districts near the border with Iran. A local official said many people were killed or injured and tents and rescue teams were needed urgently.
Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor said Israel must "do what we can to rebuild ties with Turkey" which he described as a strong, stable state and Western ally in a turbulent region.
"Both countries, which can be and were once, anchors of stability in the Mideast, have a joint interest in co-operating and I hope this returns," Meridor told Channel 1 television.
Israel has sent rescue teams to Turkey in the past after earthquakes struck. In 1999, an Israeli military rescue team pulled a 10-year-old Israeli girl from the rubble of a collapsed building in Cirarcik in northwest Turkey, where her family was on holiday. She had been trapped for nearly 100 hours.
The team spent a week in Turkey, rescuing 12 people and recovering 140 bodies. Israel also set up a field hospital in the region, where two large quakes that year killed more than 20,000 people, treating more than 1,000 victims.
(Writing by Maayan Lubell; Editing by Tim Pearce)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79M25I20111023
Erdogan = Stresemann.
Hope is the denial of reality
Honestly, Dread, I'm not sure if the Turkey thing is really such a big deal. They want to show that they're big boys and can take care of themselves - did the US accept much help after Katrina, or the Northridge earthquake, or various bouts of Mississippi flooding? What about 9/11? No, we were probably offered quite a bit of help in all of those cases, but I doubt we accepted much if any. Hell, the tsunami in Japan, which was far more destructive than any of the aforementioned events, only received fairly token response from most everyone except the US Navy, which has specialized assets that were used (some S&R teams from other countries were accepted as well).
The point is that countries normally appeal for foreign assistance if they are of relatively modest means and aren't large enough (or have sophisticated/large enough emergency services) to deal with a natural disaster of X magnitude, and it's a point of pride for Turkey to be able to deal with this on their own. I don't doubt Turkey has enough medical professionals, military assets, and rescue teams that they can handle a relatively limited natural disaster.
I think it would be a lot more worrisome if they accepted aid from, say, the EU, but rejected it from Israel. That would be indicative of a specific bias, and would also be shooting themselves in the foot given the remarkably disproportionate effect small Israeli teams have had on S&R, forensics, and field hospitals (e.g. Haiti).
Well put.
Err, you guys did accept a decent amount of foreign aid after Katrina, though you apparently first declined a lot of it (the russian aid waited a week, ready to take off.. that does seem a bit stupid). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ricane_Katrina
This is somewhat pathetic, though: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...801113_pf.html
Friend of mine is in the Dutch navy and was nearby, they came to the american shores to offer aid. They apparently had to wait an extra day before coming to the rescue because the Americans didn't want a foreign ship to be the first to show up for help, they had to wait until US aid was also there.At least, that's what he said.
IIRC you guys declined Dutch help for the oil disaster in the Gulf (we have some expertise in that area).
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
I'm sure that in every natural disaster of sufficient magnitude eventually the host country does use some aid from their allies, even the US. But the US' response in Katrina, haphazard and confused as it was, was clearly to favor domestic sources of aid over international, and to prefer specific goods/services of use rather than money. I'm not surprised that Turkey, which has way more of a pride/status complex thing going, might act somewhat similarly.
For most natural disasters in a large, developed country, the host country usually has enough raw resources to deal with the problem. The US experiences frequent wildfires in the southwest, but never bothers to ask anyone else for help - we have way more experience/equipment/etc. than most others anyways, and the paltry addition from, say, Belgium, is hardly going to make a difference. It's not surprising that when Greece or Israel had out-of-control wildfires, though, they appealed for (and received) aid.
No need to double post...
Anyhoo, I'm sure that if the earthquake was more significant they'd have no choice but to accept help.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2011/...ssport.html?hp
Unless I'm missing something here, does that mean the US doesn't recognize western Jerusalem as being part of Israel?
Hope is the denial of reality
I think it means/reaffirms that the President can execute foreign policy pretty broadly. It's the executive branch that recognizes Israel, and the executive branch that determines what constitutes "Israel".
But the claim being made there suggests that the US doesn't recognize western Jerusalem as being part of Israel; otherwise, it would say "Israel" on the passport.
Hope is the denial of reality
The Obama/Bush administration argument seems to be that Jerusalem's Israeli borders are technically in flux, so the US doesn't want to appear to claiming any part of Jerusalem as definitively Israeli. Same reason the US embassy is in Tel Aviv.
That's a rather arbitrary way of doing things. You either recognize a piece of land as being within someone's borders or you don't.
Hope is the denial of reality
Is it really that unprecedented to recognize a piece of land as in dispute? Israel annexed Jerusalem and the US does dispute large sections of the land that was annexed. So it's not too arbitrary to, paperwork-wise, consider anything within those Israeli-defined municipal boundaries as disputed.
Not sure what happens for kids born the Golan Heights...
My point is that I'm not aware of the US recognizing western Jerusalem as being under dispute.
Edit: It seems the US indeed doesn't recognize any part of Jerusalem as being under Israeli sovereignty.
Hope is the denial of reality
Yeah, it's sort of a whole shebang kind of thing. Everything is technically in dispute, which is why the State Dept is even haggling over stuff like this. Though curious what happens when an Amerikan is spawned in the Golan Heights.
Or the West Bank, come to think of it.
A quick google search suggests it would say "West Bank" or "Syria" (for the Golan Heights) on the passport.
Hope is the denial of reality
Indeed, the whole 'Israel on US passports' has been an issue for decades. Nothing new to see here, move along. It's a point of friction, as is the whole embassy thing.
So, our resident anti muslim party (geert wilders'), have criticized our minister of foreign affairs, Rosenthal, for condemning new settlements in Israel. The reason? They expect him to support Israel because he is jewish .
This is hilariously stupid on so many levels.. Besides the obvious reasons, this is also the same party that condemned government members like Albayrak and Aboutaleb, because they would have double loyalty to Turkey/Morocco, and our government should only have Dutch interests at heart. obviously this only applies to muslim countries, not Israel!
Ah, so that was what that was aboutI saw some headline about somebody condemning remarks about Rosenthal being Jewish. You're right, it's silly for many reasons. Wilders is a provocateur pur sang anyway whose only interest is staying in the spotlight so that he can keep attracting the protest vote. Scarily effective I will admit.
Congratulations America
I thought it'd be hard to top this week's craziest comment so far by saying we should banish Greenpeace from the Netherlands, but here you go.
How can people buy this?
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
So Republican hopeful Newton Leroy suggests a radical shift in US foreign policy
This is Zionutty in its own way I suppose, but heck, what a guy. I'd almost consider voting him over Michele for this!Newt Gingrich: Palestinians are 'an invented' people
Republican presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich, in an interview with the Jewish Channel, called the Israeli-Palestinian peace process “delusional,” and said Palestinians are “an invented” people.
Asked if he identifies as a Zionist, Gingrich said: “I believe that the Jewish people have the right to have a state.”
Referring back to the early 20th century, when the British government, in the Balfour Declaration of 1917, declared its support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,” Gingrich suggested that at the time, the occupants of that territory – the Palestinians – did not have a legitimate claim to the land.
“I believe that the commitments that were made at the time – remember, there was no Palestine as a state,” Gingrich said. “It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we’ve had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs and were historically part of the Arab community. And they had a chance to go many places.”
That view is held by some Israelis, but is generally rejected by the rest of the world.
U.S. presidents from both parties have in recent history supported a two-state solution to the ongoing conflict, in which Palestinians would live in a state of their own alongside Israel.
Of the peace process set in place by the Oslo Accords, Gingrich said: “I think it’s delusional to call it a peace process.” Both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas represent “an enormous desire to destroy Israel.”
“I think there’s a lot to think about in terms of how fundamentally you need to change the terms of debate in the region.”
Gingrich has recently criticized the Obama administration’s approach to the peace process, and he doubled down on that criticism in his interview with the Jewish Channel.
“You have to start with this question: Who are you making peace with?” he said.
“If I’m even-handed between a civilian democracy that obeys the rule of law and a group of terrorists who are firing missiles every day, that’s not even-handed. That’s favoring the terrorists,” he said.
Israel has been accused of violating the Geneva Convention, an international treaty established after World War II, which prohibits an occupying power from resettling its citizens in an occupied territory.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/284979-ajt.html
Three, give the go-ahead for U.S.-based Mossad agents to take out a president deemed unfriendly to Israel in order for the current vice president to take his place, and forcefully dictate that the United States' policy includes its helping the Jewish state obliterate its enemies.Yes, you read "three" correctly. Order a hit on a president in order to preserve Israel's existence. Think about it. If I have thought of this Tom Clancy-type scenario, don't you think that this almost unfathomable idea has been discussed in Israel's most inner circles?
Another way of putting "three" in perspective goes something like this: How far would you go to save a nation comprised of seven million lives...Jews, Christians and Arabs alike?
You have got to believe, like I do, that all options are on the table.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Why? For parrotting a standing theory in certain circles in Israel?
Congratulations America
Come on, it's a scenario that is preceded by a statement that makes clear that the author considers it entirely out of the box. The only thing you can extract from it is that he thinks Obama is not Israel-friendly.
Congratulations America
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote