Zionuts

[Loki]

Which cities in Ukraine have been carpet bombed?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/11/w...-chechnya.html

Most of the villages and cities along the front at the beginning of the war. Kharkov, Kherson, Mariupol, and hundreds of smaller cities and villages. That's not to mention the regular indiscriminate bombings of Ukrainian cities far from the front or the butchering of entire villages (like Bucha). The only reason we know about some of the worst atrocities is because Ukraine took the territory back. Well, Russia still controls a vast majority of the territory it took early on.

And let's not forget the kidnapping of tens of thousands of Ukrainian children (which Russia openly admits to).

Lastly, the only reason Russia hasn't killed more is because of Ukraine fighting back (and missile defense systems). That and the intended purge of Kyiv suggests we'd be talking about at least a million dead if Russia had its way.

[Steely Glint]

* Kharkiv and Kherson were never carpet bombed. Kherson in particular was taken with barely a shot fired at the start of the war, so much so that the Ukrainians suspect treachery.
* Russia is indiscriminately bombing Ukrainian cities, but these attacks are sporadic, ineffectual and mostly intercepted and of a much lower intensity than the Israel air campaign in Gaza
* They didn't massacre the entire town of Bucha, they killed ~500 people.
* Since Feb 2nd 2022 Russia occupied an additional 119k km2 of Ukrainian territory on top of what they occupied since 2014. Since then, Ukraine has liberated about 74k km2, meaning Ukraine has in fact retaken a majority of territory Russia occupied since the start of the war.

[Dreadnaught]

You're really arguing that one of these conflicts is a genocide that is the worst conflict of the 21st century and the other isn't.

Isn't it simpler to just argue that they are bad?

[Steely Glint]

I'm arguing for exactly what I said; Israeli's assault on Gaza is one of the worst crimes against humanity of the 21st century.

If Ukraine had lost the battle of Hostomel and Kyiv had become a war zone, and Russia had unleashed this level of destruction on the city no one would have a problem with that statement, but because it's an ally, and therefore it's implicit assumed that they're 'one of the good guys' and 'they wouldn't do that', we're supposed to apply this absurd level of skepticism to the horrific events taking place right in front of our eyes, take seriously ridiculous claims about James Bond bases under hospitals and UNRWA workers, use phrases like 'food-aid related deaths' and ignore the genocidal statements being made in Israel. Or that the whole Zionist project isn't just intrinsically colonial. Or that Biden couldn't just end the entire thing tomorrow with a phone call.

It's space year 2024, time we all grew up and started living in reality.

[Aimless]

This week hour, from the Middle East's Only Democracy feat. The World's Most Moral Army*

CNN has also reviewed documents compiled by major participants in the humanitarian operation that list the items most frequently rejected by the Israelis. These include anesthetics and anesthesia machines, oxygen cylinders, ventilators and water filtration systems.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/01/m...cmd/index.html


*according to a top-tier panel of weird nerds

[Loki]

* Kharkiv and Kherson were never carpet bombed. Kherson in particular was taken with barely a shot fired at the start of the war, so much so that the Ukrainians suspect treachery.

Up to 1,000 dead in Izium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves
10k+ graves (generally, with more than one person per grave) in Mariupol: https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...811655f14931f2
A single site in Lyman with 200 graves: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/08/w...iscovered.html
Mass graves and torture sites in Kherson: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/torture...ssias-retreat/
A thousand dead in Kharkiv region (mostly in Izium) and over a thousand in Kyv: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/larg...kraine/2847788
Indiscriminate artillery fire at Kherson: https://www.rferl.org/a/residents-uk.../32661951.html
80-200 dead in Borodianka: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Borodianka

* Russia is indiscriminately bombing Ukrainian cities, but these attacks are sporadic, ineffectual and mostly intercepted and of a much lower intensity than the Israel air campaign in Gaza

So Russia gets brownie points for trying but failing to kill additional Ukrainians?

* They didn't massacre the entire town of Bucha, they killed ~500 people.

Nice of them to only butcher 500 in the span of a month.

* Since Feb 2nd 2022 Russia occupied an additional 119k km2 of Ukrainian territory on top of what they occupied since 2014. Since then, Ukraine has liberated about 74k km2, meaning Ukraine has in fact retaken a majority of territory Russia occupied since the start of the war.

That's misleading. Russia controlled much of that territory for only a month. And in that month, Russia managed to carry out multiple massacres. Who knows how many have been imprisoned or killed in territory Russia still controls? Torture is rampant: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/10/w...e-torture.html

Over a million Ukrainian civilians, including a quarter million children, forcibly relocated to Russia as of a year ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...for_Ukrainians

Putin (and other top Russian officials) are on record saying the Ukrainian nation doesn't exist, thereby advocating genocide: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/o...-identity.html
Ukrainian-language books have been banned and Russian teachers have been imported to erase the Ukrainian identity in Russian-occupied territories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono...n#21st_century

The only reason Russia hasn't wiped out the Ukrainian nation (at least in the eastern half of the country) is because of its second-rate military. Once again, should we be thankful to Russia for trying but failing to commit genocide?

[Dreadnaught]

I'm arguing for exactly what I said; Israeli's assault on Gaza is one of the worst crimes against humanity of the 21st century.

If Ukraine had lost the battle of Hostomel and Kyiv had become a war zone, and Russia had unleashed this level of destruction on the city no one would have a problem with that statement, but because it's an ally, and therefore it's implicit assumed that they're 'one of the good guys' and 'they wouldn't do that', we're supposed to apply this absurd level of skepticism to the horrific events taking place right in front of our eyes, take seriously ridiculous claims about James Bond bases under hospitals and UNRWA workers, use phrases like 'food-aid related deaths' and ignore the genocidal statements being made in Israel. Or that the whole Zionist project isn't just intrinsically colonial. Or that Biden couldn't just end the entire thing tomorrow with a phone call.

It's space year 2024, time we all grew up and started living in reality.

There are 6 million people displaced in the Congo over the past few years, and you're calling the last few months of Gaza conflict the worst crimes against humanity of the 21st century.

Many Zionists have disagreements with the strategy and tactics of Israel's Gaza campaign. But people like you drown them out with hyperbole. Not to mention your clear marks of being radicalized with language like "the whole Zionist project" being "intrinsically colonial". Jews are one of the many people indigenous to the region. History is complicated and didn't begin when you learned to scroll a social media feed filled with activists. Check your privilege, bro.

[Steely Glint]

Edit: @Loki

Yeah, I didn't make the comparison to Russia in Ukraine because I wanted to defend Russia, I did it to demonstrate the sheer scale of the carnage that's been unleashed in Gaza, with the active support of most western governments, though thanks for the reminder that the media is actually capable of calling war crimes what they are when Russia is doing them.

Daily death rate in Gaza higher than any other major 21st Century conflict - Oxfam

Using publicly available data, Oxfam calculated that the number of average deaths per day for Gaza is higher than any recent major armed conflict including Syria (96.5 deaths per day), Sudan (51.6), Iraq (50.8), Ukraine (43.9) Afghanistan (23.8) and Yemen (15.8).

[Steely Glint]

There are 6 million people displaced in the Congo over the past few years, and you're calling the last few months of Gaza conflict the worst crimes against humanity of the 21st century.

No, I called it "one of" the worst crimes against humanity this century.

Many Zionists have disagreements with the strategy and tactics of Israel's Gaza campaign. But people like you drown them out with hyperbole.

There's this thing called reality.

Not to mention your clear marks of being radicalized with language like "the whole Zionist project" being "intrinsically colonial".

It is what it is. Stop worrying about whether something is 'hyperbolic' or 'radicalised' and start worrying about whether or not it's true.

Jews are one of the many people indigenous to the region. History is complicated and didn't begin when you learned to scroll a social media feed filled with activists. Check your privilege, bro.

Before the British Mandate, the Jewish population of Palestine was about 6%. By the 1920s, it was about 30%. The Jewish population of Israel is by and large not an indigenous one. Before 'colonialism' became a dirty word, early Zionists were quite happy to call their undertaking colonialism, because that's what it was: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...iron-wall-quot

To imagine, as our Arabophiles do, that they will voluntarily consent to the realisation of Zionism, in return for the moral and material conveniences which the Jewish colonist brings with him, is a childish notion, which has at bottom a kind of contempt for the Arab people; it means that they despise the Arab race, which they regard as a corrupt mob that can be bought and sold, and are willing to give up their fatherland for a good railway system.

Doesn't mean we have to demolish the state of Israel or deport everyone with a European surname or anything silly like that, if we tried to undo every act of colonialism from the 19th and 20th centuries we'd have to displace like half the world's population but I'm sick of pretending that Israel just sort of naturally coalesced out of the tiny population of native Jews, who the Arabs just hate for no reason, and wasn't actually a deliberate and conscious attempt to create a new state by displacing the existing native population and replace it with a immigrant one in exactly the same way as happened in Australia, New Zealand, the Americas, etc - and that this isn't exactly what they're still trying to do to Palestinians to this day.

Like, "A land without a people for a people without a land" does that sound at all familiar to anyone?

[Aimless]

Even zionists say Zionism is a colonialist endeavor, but sure, let's listen to some soft dingus who gave money to DeSantis.

[Loki]

A report from US intelligence:

“Israel probably will face lingering armed resistance from Hamas for years to come, and the military will struggle to neutralize Hamas’s underground infrastructure, which allows insurgents to hide, regain strength and surprise Israeli forces,” the report said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/u...ce-report.html

Shocking that the war is going in exactly the direction that anyone who hasn't been asleep for the past two decades predicted it would.

[Steely Glint]

That can't be right, they destroyed the 100% real Hamas Command Post under Al-Shifa hospital.

And the Al-Quds hospital, the Indonesian Hospital, the Nassar Hospital, the Al-Rantsi Children's Hospital, and the Al-Nasser Paediatric Hospital, and approximately 20 others.

No way Hamas has any C&C left at this point.

[Aimless]

That can't be right, they destroyed the 100% real Hamas Command Post under Al-Shifa hospital.

And the Al-Quds hospital, the Indonesian Hospital, the Nassar Hospital, the Al-Rantsi Children's Hospital, and the Al-Nasser Paediatric Hospital, and approximately 20 others.

No way Hamas has any C&C left at this point.

don't worry they're torturing the intel they need out of the doctors they captured

[EyeKhan]

... create a new state by displacing the existing native population and replace it with a immigrant one in exactly the same way as happened in Australia, New Zealand, the Americas, ....

Hey, fuck you. America was always meant to be White. God made it that way, set it aside for us, just like he sent White Jesus down to die in ancient Israel.

You know... the difference between colonizing the Americas and anywhere in the "Old World" is how new the native Americans were to all those diseases you dirty fucking Europeans cultivated with all your filthy inbred fucking socialist mongrelism. If you all were less filthy, then the 90% or so of native Americans wouldn't have died after that Italian prick showed up with his boat loads of living human shit. So fuck you and take a damn bath.

[Aimless]

The middle east's only democracy had the world's most moral army murder a bunch of aid workers working with WCK:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...=1712069617074

Bellingcat's initial investigation strongly suggests precision strike of the sort only IDF would be capable of. WCK's logo should've been clearly visible to the unit that carried out the strike. Goes without saying that said unit should be identified, sanctioned, arrested and prosecuted.

[Loki]

My guess is they're giving blanket approval to airstrikes and this is what happens when the threshold for launching an attack is low to non-existent.

[Steely Glint]

It wasn't one strike, it was three.


Source

The first car was hit, so they transferred the wounded to the second, which was then hit by another missile ~800 meters down the road, so they transferred the wounded to the final car which was then hit 1.6 miles down the road, and that was when everyone inside was killed.

[Loki]

Presumably this is how Hamas reacts, too. But these people go in with the assumption everyone around them is a terrorist and act accordingly. They know if they screw up, they'll face no consequences.

[Aimless]

Presumably this is how Hamas reacts, too. But these people go in with the assumption everyone around them is a terrorist and act accordingly. They know if they screw up, they'll face no consequences.

There wasn't anyone around them—it was a carefully executed drone strike directed from a war room full of people who thought murdering aid workers was an acceptable price to pay for the slim chance of killing one suspected terrorist: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...f-9eff29360000

Given that the criminals behind the attack would have been well aware of the presence of aid workers in the convoy—because of the clearly visible logo as well as the ongoing communication—it's difficult for me to see this as anything but a deliberate attack on aid workers. Sure, the IDF can make up excuses about phantom terrorists in warehouses, but the effect of the IDF's deliberate killing of aid workers is to scare int'l aid organizations away from Gaza, further endangering the lives of already extremely vulnerable civilians. There must be accountability for this sort of state-sponsored terrorism. The unit responsible must be named, arrested and prosecuted. The governments of the victims must at least make a show of demanding legal accountability instead of letting the IDF's propagandists sucker them into accepting excuses for murder.

[BluntHorse]

The middle east's only democracy had the world's most moral army murder a bunch of aid workers working with WCK:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...=1712069617074

Bellingcat's initial investigation strongly suggests precision strike of the sort only IDF would be capable of. WCK's logo should've been clearly visible to the unit that carried out the strike. Goes without saying that said unit should be identified, sanctioned, arrested and prosecuted.

How dare you accuse Israel of murder, you are anti-semitic. Israel has the most moral army in the world and are physically incapable of killing innocent people.

This killing is justified and should be celebrated. The people who did it should be awarded the עיטור הגבורה. The reason they might be denied is that they didn?t manage to kill them all in single missile strike and had to waste two more to finish the job. Inefficient. Missiles are not cheap nor unlimited.

The WCK staff were actually Hamas. They are criminals, guilty of helping support life in the Gaza strip, just like UNRWA. If they feed the ordinary people, this means food will also be available for Hamas. They were also going to feed Arab ?children' who would grow into future Hamas terrorists.

The only solution is to kill them all. Aid workers, Arabs, the lot. This is the moral thing to do. This is Israels God Given Right.

This will also discourage any other ?humanitarians? who dare to frustrate Israels plan to cleanse the strip of filthy Arabs and make way for the rightful Jewish population.

The sooner the IDF finish the job, the sooner my American Jewish friends can buy some nice Gaza beech front property.

[Loki]

More on Israel's targeting system: https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza

[Steely Glint]

It's astounding that they somehow missed 7/10 when they have this Person of Interest level surveillance capabilities in Gaza.

Also, why TF are Hamas members walking around with phones in war time?

[Aimless]

More on Israel's targeting system: https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza

I don't know what's worse—the amorality, the illegality, or the sheer, breathtaking stupidity of using an AI system in this manner.

[BluntHorse]

It's astounding that they somehow missed 7/10 when they have this Person of Interest level surveillance capabilities in Gaza.

Also, why TF are Hamas members walking around with phones in war time?

They don't.

Amir Avivi, a retired Israeli general, said Hamas had 'gone back to the Stone Age' to avoid their plans being detected.
He explained that militants had avoided using phones and computers, and conducted their business in rooms specially guarded from technological espionage, or gone underground altogether.

Link

KHAMAS are quite sophisticated. They would not make dumb ass mistakes like that.

Once a handsets has been associated with an individual by the virtue of the SIM card, it can be tracked even with a different SIM card or without a SIM card.

When the planing started for October 7th, the suspected KHAMAS member might have been told to dispose of their handset. They could have done this by giving away their handset to a family member or perhaps have sold it. Our most moral army that is chasing down Amalek Human Animals KHAMAS does not care about this. It's approach is 'statistical', because maybe when they strike that phone when it is at the home of the suspected KHAMAS person, they might also kill the suspected KHAMAS member. Remember, there are no uninvolved civilians in Gaza. Any child that gets killed had a high probability of becoming KHAMAS. Any woman could have been married or may have been married in future to a suspected KHAMAS member. Any old person might have been a parent to a suspected KHAMAS member and offered them love and care, which is of course, anti-semitic. All must die.

Also, remember, anyone trying to help any Gazan must die too. It is the most moral thing to do.

In order to make the siege effective, we have to prevent others from giving assistance to Gaza. Israel sent a clear message that even if they want to sell containers with diesel and other energy we will not let it happen and if needed we will bomb these containers.

Link

[Aimless]

Analysis of the WCK worker murders as a war crime:

https://opiniojuris.org/2024/04/06/t...s-a-war-crime/

[BluntHorse]

Analysis of the WCK worker murders as a war crime:

https://opiniojuris.org/2024/04/06/t...s-a-war-crime/

Israel has a right to defend itself against aid workers, doctors, journalists, women and children.

The article is anti-Semitic.

[Aimless]

WaPo investigation indicates the IDF murdered a 6yo girl and a team of paramedics:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ZGW0&itid=gfta

Govts providing this criminal military force with military support should demand prompt identification and prosecution of the unit responsible.

[Khendraja'aro]

So, this conflict is a dumpsterfire still going on, huh?

[Loki]

It's like they're trying to spark an uprising in the West Bank.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68830552

[LittleFuzzy]

It's like they're trying to spark an uprising in the West Bank.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68830552

They probably are. Unlike most of Gaza, the West Bank has land the Palestinians have developed that the settler factions want to take for their own. A West Bank "uprising" is the best way to get less expansionist and greedy elements of Israeli society to agree to it.