View Poll Results: Should public schools use corporate sponsors for funding?

Voters
7. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it's Capitalism at its finest

    3 42.86%
  • Yes, just limit signs and mascots on campus

    2 28.57%
  • Yes, but only for sports programs

    2 28.57%
  • No, it's Crazy Capitalism

    1 14.29%
  • No, donors shouldn't be advertised sponsors

    1 14.29%
  • No, conflicts of interest

    2 28.57%
  • I don't know

    3 42.86%
  • I don't care

    1 14.29%
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Thread: Corporate Sponsorship in Public Schools

  1. #1

    Default Corporate Sponsorship in Public Schools

    Branded! Public schools court corporate sponsors


    By Alex Johnson
    Reporter
    msnbc.com
    updated 8/6/2010 8:51:40 AM ET


    It’s too soon to know yet whether Flamy will show up next spring when Hempfield High School in Landisville, Pa., opens its softball season.

    Flamy — a smiling electric, well, flame on blue legs — was there in April when the Black Knights took the field en route to a 13-9 playoff season. That’s because it’s his field they play on.

    Flamy is the corporate mascot of Schwanger Bros. & Co. Inc. (“serving Central Pennsylvania for more than 70 years”), a heating and air-conditioning company in nearby Lancaster that owns the rights to the name of Hempstead’s softball diamond — Schwanger Bros. Field. There’s a big yellow Schwanger Bros. banner on the fence. Schwanger Bros. banners hang from each foul pole and along the bottom of the scoreboard. On Opening Day, a Schwanger Bros. logo even graced home plate.

    The Hempfield School District made the deal to help pay for the campus facility, which opened in 2008. It’s just one of many such arrangements that have been struck at Hempfield and at dozens of other schools across the country — including a handful of elementary schools — as education budgets fall further behind in the stagnant economy.

    “I think the funding is the biggest issue,” said Jason Jesberger, president of marketing for Market Street Sports Group of Lancaster, which has put together naming-rights deals at Hempfield and 10 other school districts in Pennsylvania that he said were “looking for alternate streams of revenue.”

    “We know we can’t put it on the tax base or cut teachers,” he said in an interview.

    That’s why field hockey and lacrosse players at Hempfield practice and compete on Heart of Lancaster Hospital Turf Quad. At Conestoga Valley High School in Lancaster, the baseball team plays at SmileMaker Dental Field. At Wilson High School in West Lawn, Pa., the basketball teams compete at Discovery Federal Credit Union Gym.

    And the corporate naming isn’t limited to athletic facilities. According to brochures it distributes to businesses in Central Pennsylvania, Market Street can negotiate “sponsorship opportunities” for almost anything with a physical presence on campus — libraries, administration buildings, cafeterias, conference rooms, guidance offices, nurse’s offices, art rooms, photo labs, band rooms and chorus spaces.


    Your Name Here
    School naming-rights deals are a relatively new phenomenon. Here are some notable arrangements and their costs:

    • Summit Credit Union Baseball Field (planned)
    Sun Prairie High School, Sun Prairie, Wis.
    $100,000, Summit Credit Union

    • Rust-Oleum Field
    Vernon Hills High School, Vernon Hills, Ill.
    $100,000, RPM International Inc.

    • Reynolds Tiger Stadium and Reynolds Royals Stadium
    Hamilton Southeastern and Fishers high schools, Fishers, Ind.
    $400,000 for both stadiums, Reynolds Farm Equipment Inc.

    • Poland Spring Arena
    Toms River High School North, Toms River, N.J.
    $50,000 a year, Nestlé Waters North America Inc.

    • CareFlight Field
    Springboro High School, Springboro, Ohio
    $1.9 million for naming rights and improvments over 22 years, Miami Valley Hospital

    • ShopRite at Brooklawn Center gymnasium
    Alice Costello Elementary School, Brooklawn, N.J.
    $100,000, ShopRite Supermarkets

    • InPro Commons Area
    Ronald Reagan Elementary School, New Berlin, Wis.
    $150,000, InPro Corp.

    • Quigley-Cox Stadium at Verizon Wireless Field
    Little Rock Central High School, Little Rock, Ark.
    $250,000, Verizon Wireless Inc.

    • Tennessee Credit Union Academy of Business and Finance
    Antioch High School, Nashville, Tenn.
    $150,000, Tennessee Credit Union

    • Renton IKEA Performing Arts Center
    Renton, Wash., School District
    $500,000, Ikea USA Inc.

    Source: msnbc.com research/Alex Johnson



    In fact, journalists cover Hempfield Black Knights football games from the Wilco Electric Press Box in the football stadium.

    ‘Everybody could see the handwriting on the wall’
    Like nearly every school district in the country, Hempfield can use the money. The $100 million budget for 2010-11 projects a shortfall of $997,000, necessitating expenditures from the district’s reserve fund and an increase in the property tax rate of 3.4 percent.

    That’s a function both of the economy in general and its effect on state funding for local schools, said Brenda J. Becker, superintendent of the Hempfield schools.

    “Everybody could see the handwriting on the wall, with expenses going up for schools and funding becoming more and more difficult,” she told msnbc.com.

    Becker arrived in Landisville at the beginning of the 2008-09 school year, shortly after the school board approved the deal. Initially, “When I saw they voted on this, I thought, ‘Oh, dear God, what is this going to be?’” she said.But after having helped guide implementation of the plan through “all sorts of growing pains,” she’s now convinced that it has “worked out far better than what I could have thought at that time.”

    “We have really developed partnerships with the companies or entities that have become sponsors of us,” she said. “We have found that these partners are doing a lot of great things for our kids — a lot more than simply the financial,” including creating scholarships and student awards and helping with general fundraising.

    Lunch in the Wheatland Federal Credit Union cafeteria
    In exchange for a commission — generally 30 percent — Market Street Sports Group puts schools together with local businesses in exclusive deals. It refuses to put any branding in actual classrooms, and it won’t handle sponsorships involving tobacco, firearms, alcohol or lotteries.

    Even so, Jesberger said, “a lot of districts are on our waiting list.”

    Nationwide, no one knows how many schools have sold the naming rights to facilities — it’s a relatively new business and there’s no national clearinghouse to keep watch over it.

    The deals are such a recent development that a 2004 report on commercial activities in public schools by the federal General Accounting Office (now the Government Accountability Office) made barely any mention of them.

    Nor is there anything like a standard rate for such deals, Jesberger said, because “it depends on the size of the district and the eyeballs that come through,” as well as the “comfort level” of the local school board.


    Hempfield, for example, brings in about $300,000 a year from its sponsors, which also fund such facilities as the Sylvan Learning guidance office, the Orthopedic Associates of Lancaster athletic trainers room, the Wheatland Federal Credit Union cafeteria, the Kline’s Services video scoreboard and the Brunner-Burkhart Group baseball field.

    ‘Pushing products and ... self-indulgence’?
    Nationally, individual naming rights deals can run to $1 million or more:
    In Worcester, Mass., Commerce Bank & Trust paid $1 million to help renovate Foley Stadium, where the city’s five high schools play football, soccer and lacrosse. It’s now called Commerce Bank Field at Foley Stadium.

    Three high schools in the Conroe Independent School District play football at Woodforest Bank Stadium in Shenandoah, Texas, which opened in August 2008. The bank agreed to spend $1 million for naming rights for 10 years at the stadium, which seats 10,000 spectators.

    And in what is believed to be the richest naming-rights deal ever negotiated for a public school facility, Trinity Mother Frances Health System paid $1.92 million in 2004 to rename 14,000-seat Rose Stadium in football-mad Tyler, Texas.

    While the issue has yet to hit the radar of most education and children’s watchdogs, it does alarm Commercial Alert, a nonprofit activist group in Washington.

    “One after another, schools across America are dedicating themselves not to role models, but instead to corporations,” the organization said in a written statement. “Instead of promoting character and honor, they are pushing products and the self-indulgence of the commercial culture.”

    But Becker, the Hempfield superintendent, said district officials carefully weighed such considerations before agreeing to the deal.

    “You’re always going to have some of that concern about overcommercializing the schools,” she said. "This was a brand new thing for the community. How do we feel about this? But the complaints I have gotten have been very, very few and far, far less than what I thought they would be.”

    Jesberger, of Market Street Sports, acknowledged that whenever he makes a presentation to school board members, “a couple will fight you tooth and nail.”

    But he said Market Street structures its deals so that there’s less commercial clutter on campuses by having “one sponsor that puts one giant sign up.” That “cuts down on a lot of ugly signs that are junking up high school stadiums.”

    Still, school officials usually take some persuading, he said, because “they’re not sports marketing people. They’re educators, and rightly so.”

    Signs alone aren’t enough
    What do you get when your company buys a stadium? Visibility and exclusivity, said Ron Burkhart of the Brunner-Burkhart Group, the real estate agency that sponsors Brunner-Burkhart Group Field, where the Hempfield Black Knights play their baseball games. It’s a way to burnish the brand and reach thousands of parents around the region.

    “Every time they pull into the parking lot, they see a 40-foot banner,” said Burkhart, whose daughter is a varsity cheerleader. “They do now put two and two together: ‘You guys are the guys who sponsor the baseball field.’”

    Brunner-Burkhart just renewed its $600-a-month deal with the school district, which Burkhart called “an easy decision for us.”

    To make the deal work financially, Brunner-Burkhart is “involved year-round,” he said. Employees work concession stands at events, and the company takes part in halftime shows at football and basketball games.

    “To be honest, it’s not something that you’re going to do that you’re going to see immediate results for,” Burkhart said, but “we have started to see some recognition.” Just recently, he helped the principal sell his home and buy a new one.

    It’s a process that Jesberger calls “grassrooting.”

    “Just putting your name on the stadium — it doesn’t work that way,” he said. “You have to be out there collecting data and using it to further your own marketing.”

    But whether or not sponsors take on the role of corporate PTAs, Becker, the Hempfield superintendent, said parents should expect more brand-building in the future.

    “I just think we’re going to see more of it,” she said. “It is going to be a growing phenomenon across the country, because districts are struggling.”

    30% commission?!

    Not sure what I think about this trend in general, but it seems full of pit-falls and craziness. What if the sponsor goes broke or decides not to renew their contract? Do we really want K-12 lunch rooms sponsored by Pepsi and Pizza Hut?

    It's one thing to have professional sports stadiums sponsored by corporations, quite another for our public schools.

    Also, I know Lancaster County and Hempfield Township, it's a nice area. There's something wrong if they can't run a school district on a $99 million budget.

    What's your opinion?

  2. #2
    Do you have a better idea about where the schools could get the money? From the tooth fairy perhaps?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  3. #3
    Sponsors go bankrupt all the time. There are branded stadiums all over the country with seats, cupholders, restroom stalls, etc that have the names of long dead dotcom companies still etched in them.

    The problem, who gets to decide what sponsors are allowed, and under what guide lines? Pizza Hut is no stranger to high schools, I remember mine even had a Pizza Hut cart you could order from if you didn't want the school food.
    But what about companies that turn out to be less than stellar? I remember the troubles getting Enron scrubbed off of sponsorships, and the same is happening to those who signed with BP.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 08-06-2010 at 05:13 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Do you have a better idea about where the schools could get the money? From the tooth fairy perhaps?
    Wow, you must have replied the second I posted this thread. And you start right off being cheeky.

    “We know we can’t put it on the tax base or cut teachers,” he said in an interview.
    True, our PA property tax in most areas is far too high. But we should be able to cut expenses, including teachers. We could start by not building multi-million dollar schools that look like airports or college campuses. If areas need more student space they could repurpose empty warehouses or manufacturing sites. We have plenty of abandoned mills and factories that have been turned into fancy condos, why not schools?

  5. #5
    Are you seriously suggesting that a substantial number of schools in the country are overly luxurious? And that you'd rather provide an inferior education than tolerate some corporate logos?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Do you have a better idea about where the schools could get the money? From the tooth fairy perhaps?
    I understand that this is the most pragmatic take on this, but I'm unsure if we should be filling out a school's budget with corporate money, in exchange for advertising in some manner, simply because the money could not be gotten from elsewhere, or would be more difficult to get from elsewhere. Especially since its supposed to be a public institution paid for with tax dollars. I have no problem with this for private schools though.
    . . .

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Are you seriously suggesting that a substantial number of schools in the country are overly luxurious? And that you'd rather provide an inferior education than tolerate some corporate logos?
    Loki, please don't start with this tactic. You know damn well I didn't say anything like that. I also don't connect quality of education based on corporate sponsorship and some logos.

    Plenty of districts all over the country have built new schools. We have one elementary school being completed here now that cost $16.7 million for the building and site. For 350 students. Our property taxes went up to pay for it....

    I can't seem to copy/paste parts of the pdf, and don't like to give my location. If you want the specifics let me know and I'll PM you.

  8. #8
    In our school district the individual schools get corporate donations/sponsors. They don't lead to the cafeteria being the BP Cafeteria (oily/greasy food joke) - it leads to a small thanking X,Y, and Z in newsletters. Parents appreciate what the businesses do, so the businesses get increased business.

    Joining the PTA for this year got me coupons for free pizzas, free appetizers at one of the local chain joints - O'Charleys, a couple of coupons for either a free mani/pedi or haircut at a nice salon, and something from Chic-Fil-A (I think free sandwich if you buy drinks and fries, I didn't even take those coupons with me). The PTA gets my $5, and I get rewards worth much more without it costing the school anything. How exactly is that a bad thing?
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Are you seriously suggesting that a substantial number of schools in the country are overly luxurious? And that you'd rather provide an inferior education than tolerate some corporate logos?
    10.000 seat stadiums do seem a bit overly luxurious for schools, if you ask me - so if they can pay those using corporate sponsors, why not. I'm a little less sure if it's right to sponsor the school itself, for roughly the same reasons as Illusions. And OG has a point too, would you let, say, a fastfood company or a soft drink company sponsor a cafetaria?

    Edit: I have no trouble at all with sponsorships in the way Lolli posted above.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    The PTA gets my $5, and I get rewards worth much more without it costing the school anything. How exactly is that a bad thing?
    Those are relatively benign companies, whose advertising is relatively minimal.
    . . .

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    In our school district the individual schools get corporate donations/sponsors. They don't lead to the cafeteria being the BP Cafeteria (oily/greasy food joke) - it leads to a small thanking X,Y, and Z in newsletters. Parents appreciate what the businesses do, so the businesses get increased business.

    Joining the PTA for this year got me coupons for free pizzas, free appetizers at one of the local chain joints - O'Charleys, a couple of coupons for either a free mani/pedi or haircut at a nice salon, and something from Chic-Fil-A (I think free sandwich if you buy drinks and fries, I didn't even take those coupons with me). The PTA gets my $5, and I get rewards worth much more without it costing the school anything. How exactly is that a bad thing?
    Five bucks donated to PTA and getting coupons is not the same as:

    Hempfield, for example, brings in about $300,000 a year from its sponsors, which also fund such facilities as the Sylvan Learning guidance office, the Orthopedic Associates of Lancaster athletic trainers room, the Wheatland Federal Credit Union cafeteria, the Kline’s Services video scoreboard and the Brunner-Burkhart Group baseball field.

    A guidance office that's supposed to be counseling students on academics probably shouldn't be associated with Sylvan Learning Centers, since it's a private (and expensive) tutoring type company.

    The Burkhart Group is a realty company, and they 'helped' the principal buy and sell a home. Maybe they waived the realtor's fees and saved him thousands of dollars? I'm just not comfortable with that kind of back-scratching in our public schools, or the appearance of possible shady deals or "favors".

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    Those are relatively benign companies, whose advertising is relatively minimal.
    All they get is advertising, no matter how much they donate. It's enough.

    A local business paid for a track at one school.

    And if a business prefers not to just support one school there is a county-wide fund for special projects. Unfortunately it can't be contributed to budget shortfalls, but it is there for other things.


    edit: The PTA thing was just a small example that came up because I *gasp* paid for my PTA membership for the year and was amused that I got benefits worth much more than the money spent.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  13. #13
    Are people totally incapable of thinking in terms of cost-benefit? What exactly is the harm of having kids look at some corporate logos? Hell, they're bombarded with advertising anyway; at least this variety improves the quality of their education.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #14
    I think the idea is that people understand all to well that young children, before they can even read, are easily impressed by and recongize corporate logos. Instead of accepting, and embracing, that as a fact of life, they want to push againist it; and there is good reason for that too.

    Do we really want a scenario where the letter of the day is sponsored by a corporation? Sure, some of them would be easy, A is for Apple, Inc. B is for Budweiser... but who picks up U?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Are people totally incapable of thinking in terms of cost-benefit? What exactly is the harm of having kids look at some corporate logos? Hell, they're bombarded with advertising anyway; at least this variety improves the quality of their education.
    I guess the problem is that it makes the school beholden to the corporations, since they will then depend on them for funding.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    I guess the problem is that it makes the school beholden to the corporations, since they will then depend on them for funding.
    So sending kids to schools that are falling apart with no improvements is preferable?

    I wouldn't find it acceptable to have the BP Cafeteria, but I have no problem at all with a local business (or locally operated branch of a megachain) paying for improvements to the cafeteria, then getting a small mention in a newsletter or similar. It's just a way for them to show they care about their community.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  17. #17
    A lot of time its part of their franchise contract to outreach into the community. Its one way Chickfila keeps its wholesome family image.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    All they get is advertising, no matter how much they donate. It's enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Are people totally incapable of thinking in terms of cost-benefit? What exactly is the harm of having kids look at some corporate logos? Hell, they're bombarded with advertising anyway; at least this variety improves the quality of their education.
    Would either of you be alright with a religious group or cult being allowed to advertise at public schools? If not, explain why. Do not include separation of church and state in your explanation, examine it as if they were a corporation attempting to advertise at a public, tax-payer funded institution, by providing donations to said institution.

    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    I wouldn't find it acceptable to have the BP Cafeteria, but I have no problem at all with a local business (or locally operated branch of a megachain) paying for improvements to the cafeteria, then getting a small mention in a newsletter or similar. It's just a way for them to show they care about their community.
    Explain your method for stopping a corporation that you don't approve of from advertising.
    . . .

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    I guess the problem is that it makes the school beholden to the corporations, since they will then depend on them for funding.
    No, it doesn't. Does Manchester United having some corporation's logo make the former beholden to the latter? All these contracts mean is that the school has to put the company's logo somewhere and thank them occasionally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    I think the idea is that people understand all to well that young children, before they can even read, are easily impressed by and recongize corporate logos. Instead of accepting, and embracing, that as a fact of life, they want to push againist it; and there is good reason for that too.
    Can I take it you're also against kids who can't read watching TV or going outside?

    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    Would either of you be alright with a religious group or cult being allowed to advertise at public schools? If not, explain why. Do not include separation of church and state in your explanation, examine it as if they were a corporation attempting to advertise at a public, tax-payer funded institution, by providing donations to said institution.
    No, I wouldn't particularly care if some local cult decided to paste its logo on cafeteria wall in exchange for millions a year.

    So let me go back to my original point, would you prefer a school that had 40 kids in a classroom and no corporate logo or 30 kids in a classroom and a corporate logo? What do you think affects the quality of education more, a corporate logo or overcrowding?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Can I take it you're also against kids who can't read watching TV or going outside?
    No Loki, and I'm not sure what the greater threat to further debate is. That you are purposely trying to force a false connection like this, or that you don't see the difference.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    Would either of you be alright with a religious group or cult being allowed to advertise at public schools? If not, explain why. Do not include separation of church and state in your explanation, examine it as if they were a corporation attempting to advertise at a public, tax-payer funded institution, by providing donations to said institution.
    It already happens. In the exact same way that any other business does. But yes, churches can donate, and get themselves listed with all the other businesses on newsletters.

    Hell, a bunch of schools are rented to really creepy cult-like churches (they use grape juice for communion) for Sunday services - and they hang their church signs all over the school properties Friday afternoon, whether there are school events over the weekends or not.

    Explain your method for stopping a corporation that you don't approve of from advertising.
    Refuse their donation? Terribly complicated, I'm sure. What the hell are you talking about, though? I was just using BP as a joke name, the point actually was meant to be that naming facilities after contributors is unacceptable, but accepting their donations is not.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  22. #22
    Also - things like Box Tops for Education and Campbell's Labels for Education encourages parents nationwide to buy specific brands in exchange for school improvements. That's also corporate sponsorship of schools in exchange for recognition.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    No Loki, and I'm not sure what the greater threat to further debate is. That you are purposely trying to force a false connection like this, or that you don't see the difference.
    Why exactly is seeing some corporate logos at school worse than seeing hours of commercials on TV or seeing corporate logos on every block?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  24. #24
    I don't think I can participate further in this debate simply because the idea I'm arguing from is that if we have to rely on corporations or religions for donations in order to keep public schools, funded by taxpayers, capable of properly educating our children, then we have failed as a society and have fully earned whatever negative effects result from our failure. If the corporations or religious institutions were really only concerned with the welfare and education of the children at these schools, they would simply provide a donation, not attempt an exchange in which they see personal gain for themselves via advertising as the outcome.
    . . .

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    I don't think I can participate further in this debate simply because the idea I'm arguing from is that if we have to rely on corporations or religions for donations in order to keep public schools, funded by taxpayers, capable of properly educating our children, then we have failed as a society and have fully earned whatever negative effects result from our failure.
    Let us know when you get back to the real world, where resources aren't infinite, and many things that deserve funding don't get it. You can't participate in a discussion that doesn't involve clear moral choices?

    If the corporations or religious institutions were really only concerned with the welfare and education of the children at these schools, they would simply provide a donation, not attempt an exchange in which they see personal gain for themselves via advertising as the outcome.
    What a ridiculous non sequitur. The corporations are trying to achieve brand recognition and get people to like their products from an early age. How exactly does that detract from their donations improving the quality of education?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Let us know when you get back to the real world, where resources aren't infinite, and many things that deserve funding don't get it. You can't participate in a discussion that doesn't involve clear moral choices?
    I'm well aware resources are not infinite, and I'm not certain how my reply implies that I'm acting as if we do. Its not as if our system of distributing taxpayer funds are set up in the most efficient, least corrupt, most knowledgeable manner possible, and its not as if people themselves are willing to absorb a larger tax burden in order to make up for any additional lacking in finances/monies.

    What a ridiculous non sequitur. The corporations are trying to achieve brand recognition and get people to like their products from an early age. How exactly does that detract from their donations improving the quality of education?
    ...I'm not setting "improving the quality of education" as a determining factor in whether or not someone can donate money to a school. I'm setting a criterion for motive of a person when accepting money from them. This is a personal conviction, and I've already stated that this disbars me from participating further in the debate, so I'm not exactly sure what you're attempting to get at here.
    . . .

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Let us know when you get back to the real world, where resources aren't infinite, and many things that deserve funding don't get it. You can't participate in a discussion that doesn't involve clear moral choices?


    What a ridiculous non sequitur. The corporations are trying to achieve brand recognition and get people to like their products from an early age. How exactly does that detract from their donations improving the quality of education?
    Corporate sponsorship hasn't been connected to improving the quality of K-12 education, though. And it's not just about box-tops for education or coupons for PTA (to Lolli).

    What started out as a local car dealership buying t-shirts for a baseball team (in exchange for their corporate logo on the front) or accepting computers at discount to get their "brand recognition" has turned into companies buying stadiums, cafeterias, guidance counseling, and libraries.

    Why stop there? How about we have teachers paid by groups of sponsors? The chemistry and math departments could be paid by Exxon Mobil and Dow Chemical. Science departments could be had by Cargill, Ford, Sony.

    Why stop there? How about we just have corporations or industry sectors build the physical schools, hire the teachers, and fund the operations....as long as they use the State's DoE guidelines they can still be a "public school"?

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    Would either of you be alright with a religious group or cult being allowed to advertise at public schools? If not, explain why. Do not include separation of church and state in your explanation, examine it as if they were a corporation attempting to advertise at a public, tax-payer funded institution, by providing donations to said institution.
    Please explain why apples and oranges are different, without reference to color, composition, taste, structure, or anything else other than that they're fruit.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  29. #29
    And in what is believed to be the richest naming-rights deal ever negotiated for a public school facility, Trinity Mother Frances Health System paid $1.92 million in 2004 to rename 14,000-seat Rose Stadium in football-mad Tyler, Texas.
    Catholic or Jesuit? Would it be accepted differently if it had been The National Alliance of Muslim Mosques, or something like that?

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Please explain why apples and oranges are different, without reference to color, composition, taste, structure, or anything else other than that they're fruit.
    Your situation and mine are not equivalent.
    . . .

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