Ah The Power of Science

[GGT]

Not yet, but it's on my "list". Did you like it?

[littlelolligagged]

Yes, it was good - one of those books you don't want to put down.

[GGT]

She's my favorite author. I heard it might be a Trilogy.....

[Khendraja'aro]

Distribution has gotten a lot better in recent decades - all criticism aside, the WFP and similar organizations (e.g. USAID) do a pretty impressive job feeding people. There are difficulties, of course - intracountry distribution (Somalia, anyone?), transportation, provision of immediate aid in times of disaster, etc. But the solution to these problems isn't to waste money trying to get outsized yields from poor quality cropland - it's to improve the distribution networks, and improve the recipient economies to the point that they can afford to import food on their own.

This isn't to argue that improving local agriculture isn't part of the solution - in some countries, they have good enough climate/water/land resources to achieve some really remarkable crop yields if given the appropriate training and technology. Yet this is by no means the rule, and giving a blanket rule of tying production to need geographically is silly.

The problem is that simply giving them food will stomp any and all attempts at creating a local food industry into the dust. For low-tech countries, that's one huge problem.

[GGT]

Too many people in the wrong places. Too many places that can't have a local food economy because of droughts or floods or bad governments (or war lords). Redefining "local" has changed so much with transportation, we think the world is flat again. Yes, it's problematic.

Hell, even at my local food pantry, we had added private garden veggies to the typical government-approved canned goods and starches today. Lost track of the people who asked what the cucumber, zucchini and spaghetti squash were, and how to prepare them. We also had canned apricots that some folks had never tasted and didn't know what they were.

(Never figured I'd have to, but turns out it's difficult to explain certain foods to some Americans.)

[GGT]

Hell, as long as we're engineering organisms, might be a better idea to engineer humans to be more efficient in their use of water, nutrients and food energy. But oh no, that would be mud in God's eye, eh?

Well, to some degree we're already guinea pigs, aren't we? Consuming foods from hybrid seeds (or feeding them to animals) has morphed into eating Growth Hormone and antibiotics injected into those animals. Irradiated food is already kind of controversial, I'd imagine some skepticism for GM foods is inevitable too. As it is, we eat so much modified food (that are about three molecules away from being some toxic chemical ) or contaminated food and water..... and as a culture we practically EAT chemical pills called Medication.... so what the hell, huh?

My mom used to say, "Eat a pack of dirt before you die", meaning don't be afraid of your food. Now we might say, "Eat a pack of plastic before you die"?

[wiggin]

The problem is that simply giving them food will stomp any and all attempts at creating a local food industry into the dust. For low-tech countries, that's one huge problem.

Part of food aid can be teaching higher yield farming and sustainable farming techniques to the locals, not just grants.

[EyeKhan]

Well, to some degree we're already guinea pigs, aren't we? Consuming foods from hybrid seeds (or feeding them to animals) has morphed into eating Growth Hormone and antibiotics injected into those animals. Irradiated food is already kind of controversial, I'd imagine some skepticism for GM foods is inevitable too. As it is, we eat so much modified food (that are about three molecules away from being some toxic chemical ) or contaminated food and water..... and as a culture we practically EAT chemical pills called Medication.... so what the hell, huh?

My mom used to say, "Eat a pack of dirt before you die", meaning don't be afraid of your food. Now we might say, "Eat a pack of plastic before you die"?

I'm not talking about poisons, I'm talking about engineering.

[GGT]

I'm not talking about poisons, I'm talking about engineering.

Yes, but there's a connection between engineering things we use/consume, and health problems decades or generations later. Beginning with baby bottles, synthetic nipples, and PBA leeching. Same concept as air quality, off-gassing, sick building syndrome.

Enough suggestive evidence (or red flags) that scientists are now examining DNA mutations and toxic chemicals stored in our tissue, hoping to follow test "sample people" from infancy through adulthood. The newest inconclusive hypothesis is tied to infant Tylenol and childhood asthma.

If you don't think our bodies are absorbing "engineered" consumables, and showing symptoms that can't yet be understood, then why do you lean toward Green?

[Khendraja'aro]

Part of food aid can be teaching higher yield farming and sustainable farming techniques to the locals, not just grants.

Sooo, we're back to "grow food locally" or what?

[wiggin]

Uhm, no. Even if you teach them better techniques, the fact of the matter is that most of the hungriest places in the world (I'm thinking Africa) are also going to naturally be low-yielding - water is a scarce resource there, far more so than in most of the major food-exporting countries. Technology and education only go so far. At the end of the day, it makes sense to have countries produce what their geography/climate/etc. make easy, and import the rest. The issue currently isn't that there isn't enough food being cultivated but that the food is poorly distributed. In fact, I might go so far as to argue that aggressive farming in dry areas is contributing to desertification (along with overgrazing/etc.). This argues against further land overuse.

We would never recommend that a country with non-commercially relevant amounts of oil try extracting it for energy - it's a waste of resources, even if better technology would make the process easier. Why do we expect food should be different from any other commodity?

Now, things might change on the global supply of food - increasing populations, greater demand for biofuels, destruction of arable land through urbanization and desertification, climate change, whatever. Even so, the solutions will probably be found mostly through increasing yields and decreasing waste (e.g. meat eating) and not developing marginally arable croplands.

[Khendraja'aro]

Still, better distribution basically means stomping the local food industry right back into the ground.

[EyeKhan]

Still, better distribution basically means stomping the local food industry right back into the ground.

It's not like its performing its role very well anyway if the locals are starving . . . .

[Khendraja'aro]

It's not like its performing its role very well anyway if the locals are starving . . . .

Ever heard of this thing called a vicious circle?

[wiggin]

Rarely does enough food get provided to a country so that indigenously produced food becomes worthless. Maybe that's a bad thing (in that people go hungry) but I doubt it's seriously restraining the local food market. Furthermore, I don't think it's such a tragedy if the market is held back - there are plenty of other avenues for economic growth, and at the end of the day the vast majority of the population is going to have to learn skills and get jobs outside of agriculture if they want their country to develop at all.

[EyeKhan]

Ever heard of this thing called a vicious circle?

Why should there be a local food industry if it can't compete in the Market? Here in the US, we don't make computers anymore for that reason. Of course our local food industry can't compete globally either, which is why we subsidize it. Not ready to trust global capitalism with our food supply, I guess. (And that's a pretty solid plan, IMO.)

[Aimless]

Well tbh it's hardly fair if the local industry can't compete on the global market simply because the global market is flooded with the produce from subsidised agriculture

[EyeKhan]

Well tbh it's hardly fair if the local industry can't compete on the global market simply because the global market is flooded with the produce from subsidised agriculture

Fair? Are you kidding? What IS fair?

[termite]

These scientists lack vision, obviously a salmon is too small to feed starvin marvin and his billions of compatriots - we clearly need a genetically modified land-whale, preferably a big-arse blue whale.

We won't need as many (coz they's big critters) and they already breathe air (no gills on them big fellas) so we just need to engineer out the bit that requires them to be wet and all will be well. If them sciency folks could genetically insert the gecko genes we could cut pieces off the whale and they'll grow back to feed Marvin again later! (those little lizards tails fall off and grow back again, its an evolutionary God given trait that protects the lizard from predators.)

One whale could feed millions! Hooray for sciency folks! (the good ones, not the evil-utionists)

It could be called The Not Jonah Project. (instead of the people being in the whales belly, the whale will be in the peoples belly)

[EyeKhan]

If you cross the whale's skin with some gene for chlorphyll they we won't have to feed it. Just set it out in the sun and let it grow. The real issue is whether to give it legs or not, because you don't want this thing getting bed sores. But then you don't want them wandering around either. Plus, there may be issues with its skeleton supporting its weight on land. There's a reason dinosaurs never got as big as blue whales afterall.

[termite]

If you cross the whale's skin with some gene for chlorphyll they we won't have to feed it. Just set it out in the sun and let it grow. The real issue is whether to give it legs or not, because you don't want this thing getting bed sores. But then you don't want them wandering around either. Plus, there may be issues with its skeleton supporting its weight on land. There's a reason dinosaurs never got as big as blue whales afterall.

The Power of Science will solve all these problems, along with the power of prayer of course.

[Khendraja'aro]

[...] As it is, we eat so much modified food (that are about three molecules away from being some toxic chemical ) [...]

Hell, with alcohol it's even only one Methyl-group which makes the difference between deadly poison and a comparatively mild neurotoxin!

[EyeKhan]

The Power of Science will solve all these problems, along with the power of prayer of course.

Oh, I know. We could float them on water, then their skeletons don't have the bear all the weight! Hey, wait...