Hurf Burf...MONEY!

[GGT]

Well aren't you special, wiggin. You can take a $3/hour job and turn it into an IRS inquisition. I'm sure the government is losing gazillions of unreported income from these people. We should demand an inquiry and a full accounting, and make these people pay their fucking income taxes!

[Wraith]

This thread is crazy.

[littlelolligagged]

This thread is crazy.

Uh huh.

[GGT]

[RandBlade]

In the US, tips are calculated (unless it's gone up) at 8% of the server's total sales for the month. When this law first came out, the place I worked with took out those taxes once a month, in the middle of the month, because there were times that some of us actually OWED more than our checks were. Hell, the lady was trying to make sure we had the ability to pay our rent and utilities! If she had taken it out of both checks, all of us would have been living on the streets!

Irrelevant. Your tips are classed as income, if you've already received most of your income (and spent it) then the fact that your tax exceeds your remaining income is irrelevant. You still owe your tax.

Hmmm, here we used to get actual coins and bills (nothing larger than a $10) so we could learn to "count back change", something that has become a, sadly, lost art!

If its lost then does it matter if cash is too?

Not really! Those tips are supposed to make the difference between the server's actual per hour wage and the minimum wage! When I last worked as a waitress, minimum wage was $5.00 per hour, and waitress minimum wage was $1.85 per hour! (It may be higher now, not sure.) Hella big difference, ain't there!

So tips are wages then, you just said it.

I like to be able to decide how much to tip my server/bartender. If the service is superb, they get tipped that way. If the service is shitty, I will leave exactly 8%!

If service is good I will leave upto 10%, if service is awful I will leave either nothing or a penny.

If tips were moved to a cashless system, it would ensure quite a number of people would have to do without some of the daily necessities since many places would only pay them out on payday instead of daily. Do you know that those tips often bought food for my family, or diapers for those with small kids? Not everyone can live as well as you do. Some of us don't make a living wage, and without those tips would be fucked! Many of the people I know in the service industry basically live on their tips, with their checks (small as they are) being used for the big stuff like rent/house payments, car payments and insurance, and utilities!

Irrelevant.

All other employees only get paid on payday, why should service people be any different? You're still getting paid your same amount, just need to balance your expenditure. Perhaps you should bemoan that being a lost art?

Then why, on pay stubs etc, does it show where 8% of your total sales is being counted as tips and being taxed? No where I have ever worked did it any differently! As far as I know, that's the way it is set up for every place, since the bullshit tax is a federal fucking law! Since I was one of those people who didn't want the IRS to get one penny more than they should, I kept track of my total sales (before sales tax added on) and checked that the total was correct...each and every check it was stolen out of! By it's very definition, a tip is a gift! Gifts should NOT count as income, PERIOD!

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

Firstly a tip is wages, you've already argued that yourself.

Secondly, gifts are classed as income in anything. If I give a bonus to someone, that is a gift, that gets taxed. If I buy someone a gift and give it to them for work purposes, then that becomes a "benefit in kind" which should be declared and get taxed! Anything you get from employment gets taxed and treated as income. Why should service people not pay their fair share of taxation? That is what you're demanding. If a service person earns income + tips of $20,000 and a computer programmer gets an income of $20,000 per year and a telesales person gets an income of $10,000 per year plus commission of $10,000 per year ... they all earn the same amount of income. You're insisting the telesales and programmer pay more tax than the waiter. Why is that fair? Why should they owe more tax?

Maybe that burden seems low to you, but to someone that it might make a difference whether the kid has milk or food this week, it's damned high! Or maybe it means being able to buy health insurance, or a decent car. It adds up over time, and can amount to a hell of a lot of money to someone making less than $20,000 per year! Just to have it taken out of the checks, even if you get it back at the end of the year.

Irrelevant. The burden is the burden however you earn it.

[GGT]

....If service is good I will leave upto 10%....

My god you are a terrible tipper. Is this some English thing or are you just a real tight wad?

[RandBlade]

10% is a typical tip here.

Then again minimum wage is £5.90 per hour, not sure current exchange rate but it would have been $11.80 earlier this year. Most employees aren't necessarily on minimum wage either.

Why should a cleaner on minimum wage who'd never get a tip be tipping people who get paid the same as she does?

Then again if I go to say TGI Friday's with Amanda then a meal just for the two of us can come to £50 ($100) with alcohol. A £5/$10 tip is a decent bonus I think for what is in reality a few minutes effort total where they serve multiple people throughout and are getting paid wages already.

[GGT]

10% is a typical tip here.

Then again minimum wage is £5.90 per hour, not sure current exchange rate but it would have been $11.80 earlier this year. Most employees aren't necessarily on minimum wage either.

Why should a cleaner on minimum wage who'd never get a tip be tipping people who get paid the same as she does?

Irrelevant who's buying. They show up at a restaurant to get a nice meal with good service, whether they're a cleaning woman or HRH, it's customary to give at least 20% tip. Pizza delivery and cabbies get 10% tip, salons it's either 10% for the owner or 20% for an employee. These things are etiquette standards, and most of it's written down. It's also customary to tip the chef for a superb meal, in addition to the server's tip. You're also supposed to tip house movers, painters, arborists, landscapers, or any service worker who does a great job.

[RandBlade]

That's stupid.

If a tip is for good service then none can be demanded, it is an optional extra.
If a tip is mandatory wages then put it in the damn bill in the first place.

[littlelolligagged]

Irrelevant who's buying. They show up at a restaurant to get a nice meal with good service, whether they're a cleaning woman or HRH, it's customary to give at least 20% tip. Pizza delivery and cabbies get 10% tip, salons it's either 10% for the owner or 20% for an employee. These things are etiquette standards, and most of it's written down. It's also customary to tip the chef for a superb meal, in addition to the server's tip. You're also supposed to tip house movers, painters, arborists, landscapers, or any service worker who does a great job.

You do understand that different countries have different customs, right?

[GGT]

You do understand that different countries have different customs, right?

That's stupid.

If a tip is for good service then none can be demanded, it is an optional extra.
If a tip is mandatory wages then put it in the damn bill in the first place.

[Catgrrl]

Going back pages and pages....

Sometimes, as a visual-type person, having the actual cash helps me to see what I'm spending and how to spend it. As a kid, that allowance in hand let me know I could afford to buy one new shirt, or 4 pairs of earrings, or get to go to a movie and maybe get a small popcorn and soda.
Alot of times with the plastic you just go ahead and buy 4 shirts, 20 pairs of earrings, and go see a movie every week. Then wonder why you're getting that overdraft fee.

But you know what, maybe it's different for people who have always grown up with plastic. I think it's those of us that didn't that tend to get into trouble, remembering to check our balances and to spend wisely. The whole idea in our heads that we can just "pay it off later".

(These are just examples: I have NEVER overdrafted my account, and always keep a $0 balance on credit card...paying it off every month)

[RandBlade]

If you've never gotten overdrawn nor do you ever have a balance on the credit card so you face no interest, fees or charges for that ... then how have you got yourself in trouble? Sounds like you work well with plastic?

[GGT]

Rand dear, cat didn't say she'd ever gotten into trouble with her card.

[RandBlade]

"I think it's those of us that didn't that tend to get into trouble" Us made it sound like it included her.

Why the bored icon to my quote? Not very illuminating.

[Catgrrl]

I'm bad about lumping "us" as my age group. (I'm almost 30). A couple of friends of mine too. Yes they are dumb, but they're fun so I keep them around. Just don't trust them with money :P

What I mean is if some people take better care if they have the money in hand versus just paying out of a card and not checking the balance until later.

Of course there are those that can't seem to get their finances straight no matter the situation, but there's no helping those people.

Oh, ya, another thing I saw in this thread: the Foodstamp Debit Card. I've been stuck behind them too, and it is annoying. But I think it was just as bad when it was paper stamps so again I don't think there's any helping that situation.

[RandBlade]

You're almost 30 and counting yourself as an oldie?

I'm 28, born 1982 and there's no way on Earth I'd consider myself old like that. I grew up using plastic.

I dispute the idea that people take better care with cash. I know plenty of people (and plenty have said so in this thread) that will just burn through any cash they have. Cash to me almost has a status of 'well I've already taken it out so may as well spend it now'.

[littlelolligagged]

You're both ancient. Sheesh.

[GGT]

omigosh you're all babies.

[Catgrrl]

Oh my god, Rand, I don't know what you have against me but you can lay off it please.

I said my age group. Did not say I was old. Check/debit cards weren't all that popular too long ago. Cash, checks, and credit cards seemed to be the three big things I remember growing up.

I also stated that there are some people that can't be helped to take care of their finances no matter how they pay.

I was only saying that some people work well visually with money in hand, others do great with the plastic.

I see the argument both ways; just reasoning why not getting rid of paper money and coins would be okay.

I personally like the feeling of having the cash in my hand, makes me feel special. But I'm weird like that. But yes, I usually pay with the check card or credit card.

So get over your beef with me, okay?

[GGT]

Rand is Rand. He never means to be irritating. He's just British. And a lousy tipper.

[Catgrrl]

Oh ya, about the tipping. Now keep in mind I did work in food service, though not waitressing. Just Starbucks and an ice cream/sandwich shop. So I always got minimum wage or better. And the occasional tip, but it always made me feel awkward since it wasn't that kind of restaurant.

I really wish the tipping thing would go away, and that wait staff would just get paid minimum wage or better. It ought to be criminal to pay below that. I'm a great tipper, I'd never NOT leave a tip. I usually do 20% on average, maybe higher depending on situations. I do know there are people that don't tip well or not at all. There's always the insulting 50cent tip. People like that piss me off.
To avoid all that, why not just get rid of that horrendous system and pay people in the first place? I really don't care if that means the food prices have to go up.

[GGT]

Because the gummint wants the gazillions in taxes that those service workers owe! They make so much in tips we need to collect their fair share!



I kid, I kid! No idea really. It sure would make things simpler all around though wouldn't it. My mom, rest her soul, used to carry a tip chart card in her wallet. She wasn't very good at math but had good intentions.

[Catgrrl]

I always just figure what 10% is roughly then times it by 2. But yes, I still have to run it by the hubby or a friend to back up my math. And I'm usually pretty good at math! Tipping just messes my brain up somehow.

[littlelolligagged]

I always just figure what 10% is roughly then times it by 2. But yes, I still have to run it by the hubby or a friend to back up my math. And I'm usually pretty good at math! Tipping just messes my brain up somehow.

And you called me dumb once.

[GGT]

I always just figure what 10% is roughly then times it by 2. But yes, I still have to run it by the hubby or a friend to back up my math. And I'm usually pretty good at math! Tipping just messes my brain up somehow.

I do that too! Then I run it by my kids, ya know, to "test their math skills".

[Catgrrl]

I did? I don't remember calling you that

What's sad is I had to learn the whole multiplication idea from one of the friends who is bad with money!
Probably the only time I've listened to him about anything.

[Nessus]

I always just figure what 10% is roughly

It's

I mean

We're in a base 10 system

How do you "roughly" work out 10%

[Hazir]

Wiggin isn't discussing whether he should tip his server or not. He's saying that a server is legally obligated to report all their tips. This is true, and has been for at least 16 years now. What Wiggin is trying to point out iis that if a server's tips are ridiculously low, the employer is also legally obligated to bring you up to x amount.

And anyone who is making less than 8% of their total sales is a really shitty server and should probably be unemployed.

I agree, you'd have to give abyssmal service to me to get less than 10%-ish of the bill from me (the do get minimum wage overhere). Anything halfway decent (right prompt execution of order) will trigger that for me. People who add in something extra can get more.

Some random reactions; I actually paid cash for my house in Istanbul, a bag full of money. Cheques have been abolished in Holland for like 10 years, everybody uses debit cards and most people do online banking. Credit cards are used much less, for internet shopping and travel. I know a lot of people who don't have a credit card.

[Hazir]

It's

I mean

We're in a base 10 system
How do you "roughly" work out 10%

It's about the change honey. You don't want to be dealing with a heap of small change just in order to tip. Which reminds me; I once witnessed a german waiter refusing a tip which seemed quite ok, but was in dimes etc.