Hurf Burf...MONEY!

[RandBlade]

Puritans were a major factor in the first civil war and the first and virtually only leader of England as a republic, Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell was a Puritan. We then of course had the second Civil War in part against the excesses of Puritanism and the Puritan's left for "New England"

[Hazir]

Talk about crazy money-habits. What about having €42,000 in your checking account on which you do not get any interests with expenses that aren't even 1/20th of that amount a month?

[Flixy]

A while back I was looking into changing banks, and one offered a checking account that provided an interest (only 1%, but still) on the money you have on there.

[Catgrrl]

Sorry Rand, I guess I had misunderstood your intent in your earlier reply to me.

[Dreadnaught]

Puritans were a major factor in the first civil war and the first and virtually only leader of England as a republic, Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell was a Puritan. We then of course had the second Civil War in part against the excesses of Puritanism and the Puritan's left for "New England"

Well, if as many as 20 Puritans stayed behind, the whole of England is tainted and subject to their legacy. According to the logic here.

Which is really a silly and semantic diversion from the original point, which is that Amerikans are somehow slave owners and slaves themselves at the same time because at one point in our history we had legal slavery (and of course no one else did, right?).

[termite]

Which is really a silly and semantic diversion from the original point, which is that Amerikans are somehow slave owners and slaves themselves at the same time because at one point in our history we had legal slavery (and of course no one else did, right?).

Who made that claim? I certainly didn't claim anything of the sort.

I suggested that history has a bearing on the present, nothing more. You seem to have decided to take offence at the mere mention of slavery and have now twisted that into claiming I said (apparently) that Amerikans are somehow slave owners and slaves themselves at the same time because at one point in our history we had legal slavery.... or perhaps you're claiming Randy said that? Not sure where that came from.

Your country's slave owning ways may have been a long time ago, but it was in place for almost 2 centuries and was widespread and backed up by legislation. It was not a passing phase that can be (or should be) ignored or denied.

I also didn't get anywhere near claiming that there is modern day slavery, far from it, rather that your country has long had a readily available source of cheap labour - since the time of slavery (when it was basically free labour) until this very day (illegal immigrants) and by extension this affects attitudes towards how an individual derives income.

The fact that you have a minimum wage and then allow people to work for less than minimum if they are in a "tipping" industry makes a mockery of the very principle of a minimum wage. It is not unlike the Amerikan habit of preaching "free trade" to the world while you subsidise your farmers and impose tariffs on steel imports etc - it is as much a fallacy as a wage which is legally less than the minimum.

Obviously I was not (and did not) claim that slavery was the one and only factor in shaping your culture, that would be stupid, it is equally stupid to think it is irrelevant as you are doing.

[Dreadnaught]

Many countries had legalized slavery for centuries, so I do take offense at the idea that something as mundane as our minimum wage law enforcement is tied into it.

The reasons some people ignore our minimum wage laws are varied and, as I mentioned before, have more to do with basic economics and our cultural attitudes towards how we seek fair pay. I don't think how the restaurant/service industry structures its salaries is fair or efficient, but I also don't think it's an extension of some unique American desire for cheap labor. Every industry seeks out cheaper labor, and every laborer seeks out higher wages.

[termite]

Many countries had legalized slavery for centuries, so I do take offense at the idea that something as mundane as our minimum wage law enforcement is tied into it.

OK, firstly, I never claimed the US was the only country with slaves, however the US did have 4 million official slaves in 1860 in a population of 31 million. (a fair assumption could be made that the official number was lower than the actual number). That is quite an impressive "free" labour source by anyone's definition wouldn't you say?

Secondly, why are you offended by that? Do you feel shame for an injustice that happened before you were born? That you could in no way be held responsible for? How curious.
Why is the treatment of your countries lowest income earners such a mundane issue?
Why can there be no link between the lowest workers in the past and the lowest workers in the present?

The reasons some people ignore our minimum wage laws are varied and, as I mentioned before, have more to do with basic economics and our cultural attitudes towards how we seek fair pay. I don't think how the restaurant/service industry structures its salaries is fair or efficient, but I also don't think it's an extension of some unique American desire for cheap labor. Every industry seeks out cheaper labor, and every laborer seeks out higher wages.

You are speaking in riddles, I agreed that the reasons are varied and here you are talking about cultural attitudes yet deny that your history could have any bearing on the present. Just what is it that you think a culture is and where do you think it comes from? Of course countries seek cheap labour, why do you think China is a manufacturing giant? Cheap labour, not quite slaves sure but in so many cases not far from it.

[GGT]

Changing direction now. Interesting to note that media has taken a big jump into financial literacy.

I happened on a cable show geared toward money management, called "Til Debt Do Us Part". They have an Irish woman coming into married couple's homes to help them deal with money problems. (Almost like the child-rearing show The Nanny, she even comes in with a black bag like the Nanny.) The first episode I watched had a young newlywed couple that accrued over $21,000 in debt their first year of marriage, and they had no idea how it happened.


edit Actually, she might be Canadian, working with Canadiens. Her accent threw me off a wee bit. Pretty intense faux reality show, though. She got the first man to say out loud, "I am a dickwad" because of his spending/credit habits. The second man broke down and cried on camera when shown they were $80,000 in debt after 5 married years.