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Thread: Proof that US courts award money for dumb shit.

  1. #1
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    Default Proof that US courts award money for dumb shit.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...-10391695.html

    Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award
    The first court award in a vaccine-autism claim is a big one. CBS News has learned the family of Hannah Poling will receive more than $1.5 million dollars for her life care; lost earnings; and pain and suffering for the first year alone.
    In addition to the first year, the family will receive more than $500,000 per year to pay for Hannah's care. Those familiar with the case believe the compensation could easily amount to $20 million over the child's lifetime.

    Hannah was described as normal, happy and precocious in her first 18 months.

    Then, in July 2000, she was vaccinated against nine diseases in one doctor's visit: measles, mumps, rubella, polio, varicella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, and Haemophilus influenzae.

    Afterward, her health declined rapidly. She developed high fevers, stopped eating, didn't respond when spoken to, began showing signs of autism, and began having screaming fits. In 2002, Hannah's parents filed an autism claim in federal vaccine court. Five years later, the government settled the case before trial and had it sealed. It's taken more than two years for both sides to agree on how much Hannah will be compensated for her injuries.

    Read Sharyl Attkisson's 2008 report on Hannah Poling

    In acknowledging Hannah's injuries, the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't "cause" her autism, but "resulted" in it. It's unknown how many other children have similar undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder. All other autism "test cases" have been defeated at trial. Approximately 4,800 are awaiting disposition in federal vaccine court.



    Time Magazine summed up the relevance of the Poling case in 2008: ...(T)here's no denying that the court's decision to award damages to the Poling family puts a chink -- a question mark -- in what had been an unqualified defense of vaccine safety with regard to autism. If Hannah Poling had an underlying condition that made her vulnerable to being harmed by vaccines, it stands to reason that other children might also have such vulnerabilities."

    Then-director of the Centers for Disease Control Julie Gerberding (who is now President of Merck Vaccines) stated: "The government has made absolutely no statement indicating that vaccines are a cause of autism. This does not represent anything other than a very specific situation and a very sad situation as far as the family of the affected child."
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  2. #2
    It doesn't hurt to be humble. You'll note that this was a very specific case, which, although it may open things up for other similar cases, doesn't do much in the great scheme of things. They won this one because they provided a plausible theory for why her vaccinations resulted in her developing autism-like symptoms, and it couldn't be ruled out by the court.

    The girl's dad, a neurologist, makes a good point:

    The experience with Hannah, Poling says, has not turned him against vaccines. "I want to make it clear I am not anti-vaccine," he says. "Vaccines are one of the most important, if not the most important advance, in medicine in at least the past 100 years. But I don't think that vaccines should enjoy a sacred cow status, where if you attack them you are out of mainline medicine."

    "Every treatment has a risk and a benefit. To say there are no risks to any treatment is not true.''
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    That may be. But $500,000 per year? Please. That's massively out of proportion.
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  4. #4
    Is the thinking that the all-at-once nature of the vaccines were the cause of the health problems?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Is the thinking that the all-at-once nature of the vaccines were the cause of the health problems?
    The thinking was that some of those vaccines contains a substance that could have aggravated her underlying condition with disastrous results, and that possibility couldn't be reasonably ruled out.




    As for the sums involved, I have no idea how much this sort of thing can cost in the US, so I won't make any judgements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    As for the sums involved, I have no idea how much this sort of thing can cost in the US, so I won't make any judgements.
    That's easy to find out: Autistic children are not exactly rare. 1 in a 1000, to be exact. If every one of those children cost $500,000 per year, you'd have quite a lot of fun with a lot of insolvent families.

    http://autism.about.com/b/2008/07/06...-treatment.htm

    That article states the cost for employing a full-time specialist at $70,000 per year.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    That's easy to find out: Autistic children are not exactly rare. 1 in a 1000, to be exact. If every one of those children cost $500,000 per year, you'd have quite a lot of fun with a lot of insolvent families.

    http://autism.about.com/b/2008/07/06...-treatment.htm

    That article states the cost for employing a full-time specialist at $70,000 per year.
    Because I don't think people are evil or stupid I am going to withhold judgement until I know why they decided on 500k a year. I'm pretty sure that covering costs is just one aspect.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Because I don't think people are evil or stupid I am going to withhold judgement until I know why they decided on 500k a year. I'm pretty sure that covering costs is just one aspect.
    Why should there even be another aspect? It's not a malpractice suit where you award punitive damages. With that amount of money, nobody in that family ever needs to work again.
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  9. #9
    What the hell is "federal vaccine court"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    What the hell is "federal vaccine court"?
    From what I've gleaned, they're the ones dealing with actual damages from vaccines. This court has been formed because, due to the largely uninformed masses (as evidenced here), the amount of money a drug company would have to pay would be astronomical.

    Which means that no sane company would produce vaccines ever again (some companies did stop all vaccine production and others threatened to before this court was formed, due to all those lawsuit shenanigans).
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Why should there even be another aspect? It's not a malpractice suit where you award punitive damages.
    I don't know what her problems are or what they cost, nor do I know what it'll cost to manage insurance etc. I also don't know enough about the particulars about the case to determine whether or not someone should be slapped in the face for giving a child 9 vaccines in one go. But most importantly I don't know what a fair compensation would be for the suffering caused by getting your child brain-damaged by a procedure that isn't supposed to cause brain damage.

    It took them a couple of years after the case was sealed to settle on the compensation, so even if they're being crazy I'll wait until I know more.

    Think this is a very interesting case

    I bet you thought they were being dumb shits because you assumed they were conned by the MMR-autism folks.
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  12. #12
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    I still think they are. As of yet, there have been a quite large number of studies on vaccines and none have found a link to autism.

    And a mitochondrial disorder is a genetic disorder and can manifest at any time.
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  13. #13
    ... the argument was that one of the mercury-based preservatives in the vaccines--alternatively the effect of getting nine in one go--aggravated her condition leading to the brain damage. No-one's saying vaccines cause autism, in this case. The cse is that an adverse reaction to one or several or all of the vaccines messed her up. Adverse reactions to vaccines isn't exactly Da Vinci Code stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    ... the argument was that one of the mercury-based preservatives in the vaccines--alternatively the effect of getting nine in one go--aggravated her condition leading to the brain damage. No-one's saying vaccines cause autism, in this case. The cse is that an adverse reaction to one or several or all of the vaccines messed her up. Adverse reactions to vaccines isn't exactly Da Vinci Code stuff.
    Yes. And? The case stated that the "immune system was taxed by the vaccine". Great. Which means that at any time she got sick, the same thing could've happened.

    I still don't see why they were awarded such a huge amount of money.

    And, no, it's not "that an adverse reaction to one or several or all of the vaccines messed her up". They're just guessing here. And, please, Mercury-based preservatives... y'know, Mercury sounds pretty scary, until you realize that they're talking about a Mercury compound here. Just like NaCl - I wouldn't eat Natrium nor Chlorine in its elementary form, but strangely enough, in ionic form it's a completely different deal, essential even.
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    The articles haven't made this particularly clear but is this case actually autism? or is it autism-like symptoms due to neurological damage? I think there's an important distinction there when it comes to discussing this case and the (non-existant) vaccine-autism link.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Yes. And? The case stated that the "immune system was taxed by the vaccine". Great. Which means that at any time she got sick, the same thing could've happened.
    No, that's just you being silly. You're mad because you're not getting the info you want to get out of a very cursory description of a long court case. You should acknowledge that the info we have on the case is very limited. The same goes for the science, unless you're claiming that there have been large studies conducted on little girls with some mitochondrial disorder that involved giving them nine vaccines in one go. That's a limitation of our knowledge. It's nothing to get mad about. As for getting sick, I dunno how sick you get from getting nine shots in one go. As for mercury-based additives, I have no idea how they, together with vaccines, affect the brains of little girls with some unspecified mitochondrial disorder. If I don't know I'm damned sure you don't know either.

    I still don't see why they were awarded such a huge amount of money.
    And neither do I, but it's not like I'm privy to the details of the case and it's not like they're obliged to fill me in.

    And, no, it's not "that an adverse reaction to one or several or all of the vaccines messed her up". They're just guessing here. And, please, Mercury-based preservatives... y'know, Mercury sounds pretty scary, until you realize that they're talking about a Mercury compound here. Just like NaCl - I wouldn't eat Natrium nor Chlorine in its elementary form, but strangely enough, in ionic form it's a completely different deal, essential even.
    No they provided a plausible hypothesis that couldn't be ruled out, and because law isn't science the court came to this decision. As for the compound, the concerns about the metabolites of the compound were deemed reasonable enough that they began to phase it out quickly. Some of those concerns were proven somewhat extreme but the fact remains that there have been little in the way of toxicology research on this compound.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempus Vernum View Post
    The articles haven't made this particularly clear but is this case actually autism? or is it autism-like symptoms due to neurological damage? I think there's an important distinction there when it comes to discussing this case and the (non-existant) vaccine-autism link.
    Autism-like symptoms. The various authorities involved have all been careful to point that out, but it keeps getting drowned out by the MMR-autism people.
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  18. #18
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    No, that's just you being silly. You're mad because you're not getting the info you want to get out of a very cursory description of a long court case. You should acknowledge that the info we have on the case is very limited. The same goes for the science, unless you're claiming that there have been large studies conducted on little girls with some mitochondrial disorder that involved giving them nine vaccines in one go. That's a limitation of our knowledge. It's nothing to get mad about. As for getting sick, I dunno how sick you get from getting nine shots in one go. As for mercury-based additives, I have no idea how they, together with vaccines, affect the brains of little girls with some unspecified mitochondrial disorder. If I don't know I'm damned sure you don't know either.



    And neither do I, but it's not like I'm privy to the details of the case and it's not like they're obliged to fill me in.



    No they provided a plausible hypothesis that couldn't be ruled out, and because law isn't science the court came to this decision. As for the compound, the concerns about the metabolites of the compound were deemed reasonable enough that they began to phase it out quickly. Some of those concerns were proven somewhat extreme but the fact remains that there have been little in the way of toxicology research on this compound.
    Sorry, dude, you're way wrong here. Thiomersal has yet to be shown to be harmful and there were numerous studies done. You will find NO study showing a correlation whatsoever. Thiomersal is being phased out because of dumb shit like this.

    So, you've just shown that you don't know shit. Sorry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Autism-like symptoms. The various authorities involved have all been careful to point that out, but it keeps getting drowned out by the MMR-autism people.
    "Autism-like"? What does that even mean?

    But, hey, let's simply award money for mere correlations! I ate a new type of bread before developing pneumonia, why don't I get to sue the bread maker?
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  19. #19
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    So, even actual doctors are at a loss as to why this court awards money for "plausible mechanisms" - even when those mechanisms have shown to be non-existant:

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904

    On April 11, 2008, the National Vaccine Advisory Committee took an unusual step: in the name of transparency, trust, and collaboration, it asked members of the public to help set its vaccine-safety research agenda for the next 5 years. Several parents, given this opportunity, expressed concern that vaccines might cause autism — a fear that had recently been fueled by extensive media coverage of a press conference involving a 9-year-old girl named Hannah Poling.
    When she was 19 months old, Hannah, the daughter of Jon and Terry Poling, received five vaccines — diphtheria–tetanus–acellular pertussis, Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib), measles–mumps–rubella (MMR), varicella, and inactivated polio. At the time, Hannah was interactive, playful, and communicative. Two days later, she was lethargic, irritable, and febrile. Ten days after vaccination, she developed a rash consistent with vaccine-induced varicella.

    Months later, with delays in neurologic and psychological development, Hannah was diagnosed with encephalopathy caused by a mitochondrial enzyme deficit. Hannah's signs included problems with language, communication, and behavior — all features of autism spectrum disorder. Although it is not unusual for children with mitochondrial enzyme deficiencies to develop neurologic signs between their first and second years of life, Hannah's parents believed that vaccines had triggered her encephalopathy. They sued the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) for compensation under the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) and won.
    On March 6, 2008, the Polings took their case to the public. Standing before a bank of microphones from several major news organizations, Jon Poling said that “the results in this case may well signify a landmark decision with children developing autism following vaccinations.”1 For years, federal health agencies and professional organizations had reassured the public that vaccines didn't cause autism. Now, with DHHS making this concession in a federal claims court, the government appeared to be saying exactly the opposite. Caught in the middle, clinicians were at a loss to explain the reasoning behind the VICP's decision.

    The Poling case is best understood in the context of the decision-making process of this unusual vaccine court. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, American lawyers successfully sued pharmaceutical companies claiming that vaccines caused a variety of illnesses, including unexplained coma, sudden infant death syndrome, Reye's syndrome, transverse myelitis, mental retardation, and epilepsy. By 1986, all but one manufacturer of the diphtheria–tetanus–pertussis vaccine had left the market. The federal government stepped in, passing the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, which included the creation of the VICP. Funded by a federal excise tax on each dose of vaccine, the VICP compiled a list of compensable injuries. If scientific studies supported the notion that vaccines caused an adverse event — such as thrombocytopenia after receipt of measles-containing vaccine or paralysis after receipt of oral polio vaccine — children and their families were compensated quickly, generously, and fairly. The number of lawsuits against vaccine makers decreased dramatically.

    Unfortunately, in recent years the VICP seems to have turned its back on science. In 2005, Margaret Althen successfully claimed that a tetanus vaccine had caused her optic neuritis. Although there was no evidence to support her claim, the VICP ruled that if a petitioner proposed a biologically plausible mechanism by which a vaccine could cause harm, as well as a logical sequence of cause and effect, an award should be granted. The door opened by this and other rulings allowed petitioners to claim successfully that the MMR vaccine caused fibromyalgia and epilepsy, the hepatitis B vaccine caused Guillain–Barré syndrome and chronic demyelinating polyneuropathy, and the Hib vaccine caused transverse myelitis.

    No case, however, represented a greater deviation from the VICP's original standards than that of Dorothy Werderitsh, who in 2006 successfully claimed that a hepatitis B vaccine had caused her multiple sclerosis. By the time of the ruling, several studies had shown that hepatitis B vaccine neither caused nor exacerbated the disease, and the Institute of Medicine had concluded that “evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between hepatitis B vaccine and multiple sclerosis.”2 But the VICP was less impressed with the scientific literature than it was with an expert's proposal of a mechanism by which hepatitis B vaccine could induce autoimmunity (an ironic conclusion, given that Dorothy Werderitsh never had a detectable immune response to the vaccine).

    Like the Werderitsh decision, the VICP's concession to Hannah Poling was poorly reasoned. First, whereas it is clear that natural infections can exacerbate symptoms of encephalopathy in patients with mitochondrial enzyme deficiencies, no clear evidence exists that vaccines cause similar exacerbations. Indeed, because children with such deficiencies are particularly susceptible to infections, it is recommended that they receive all vaccines.

    Second, the belief that the administration of multiple vaccines can overwhelm or weaken the immune system of a susceptible child is at variance with the number of immunologic components contained in modern vaccines. A century ago, children received one vaccine, smallpox, which contained about 200 structural and nonstructural viral proteins. Today, thanks to advances in protein purification and recombinant DNA technology, the 14 vaccines given to young children contain a total of about 150 immunologic components.3

    [Third, although experts testifying on behalf of the Polings could reasonably argue that development of fever and a varicella-vaccine rash after the administration of nine vaccines was enough to stress a child with mitochondrial enzyme deficiency, Hannah had other immunologic challenges that were not related to vaccines. She had frequent episodes of fever and otitis media, eventually necessitating placement of bilateral polyethylene tubes. Nor is such a medical history unusual. Children typically have four to six febrile illnesses each year during their first few years of life4; vaccines are a minuscule contributor to this antigenic challenge.

    Fourth, without data that clearly exonerate vaccines, it could be argued that children with mitochondrial enzyme deficiencies might have a lower risk of exacerbations if vaccines were withheld, delayed, or separated. But such changes would come at a price. Even spacing out vaccinations would increase the period during which children were susceptible to natural infections, giving a theoretical risk from vaccines priority over a known risk from vaccine-preventable diseases. These diseases aren't merely historical: pneumococcus, varicella, and pertussis are still common in the United States. Recent measles outbreaks in California, Arizona, and Wisconsin among children whose parents had chosen not to vaccinate them show the real risks of public distrust of immunization.

    After the Polings' press conference, Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, responded to their claims that vaccines had caused their daughter's autism. “Let me be very clear that the government has made absolutely no statement . . . indicating that vaccines are a cause of autism,” she said.5 Gerberding's biggest challenge was defining the term “autism.” Because autism is a clinical diagnosis, children are labeled as autistic on the basis of a collection of clinical features. Hannah Poling clearly had difficulties with language, speech, and communication. But those features of her condition considered autistic were part of a global encephalopathy caused by a mitochondrial enzyme deficit. Rett's syndrome, tuberous sclerosis, fragile X syndrome, and Down's syndrome in children can also have autistic features. Indeed, features reminiscent of autism are evident in all children with profound impairments in cognition; but these similarities are superficial, and their causal mechanisms and genetic influences are different from those of classic autism.

    Going forward, the VICP should more rigorously define the criteria by which it determines that a vaccine has caused harm. Otherwise, the message that the program inadvertently sends to the public will further erode confidence in vaccines and hurt those whom it is charged with protecting.
    Dr. Offit reports being a co-inventor and co-holder of a patent on the rotavirus vaccine RotaTeq, from which he and his institution receive royalties, as well as serving on a scientific advisory board for Merck. No other potential conflict of interest relevant to this article was reported.

    SOURCE INFORMATION
    Dr. Offit is chief of infectious diseases at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine — both in Philadelphia.
    For emphasis:

    First, whereas it is clear that natural infections can exacerbate symptoms of encephalopathy in patients with mitochondrial enzyme deficiencies, no clear evidence exists that vaccines cause similar exacerbations.
    So, a mere cold can offset those symptoms - isn't that fun? But, wait, it gets better:

    Indeed, because children with such deficiencies are particularly susceptible to infections, it is recommended that they receive all vaccines.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Sorry, dude, you're way wrong here. Thiomersal has yet to be shown to be harmful and there were numerous studies done. You will find NO study showing a correlation whatsoever. Thiomersal is being phased out because of dumb shit like this.
    There've been a number of very good epidemiological studies since they began to phase it out, and they haven't found a link between getting vaccines with thimerosal and suffering harmful effects due to it. There have however been very little in the way of toxicology studies on humans, and none that I know of that's examined its effects on a patient such as this, under these circumstances (underlying condition, dosage, combination with vaccines). Please try to understand the uses and limitations of epidemiological research. This case is a rare bird.

    Thimerosal is being phased out because we still follow the principle of caution, and for good reasons.

    "Autism-like"? What does that even mean?
    It probably means that she's displaying symptoms that are reminiscent of autism, but probably isn't what we generally think of as autism (which isn't a single disorder anyway). Because they couldn't establish that this was garden-variety autism they called it "autism-like".

    But, hey, let's simply award money for mere correlations! I ate a new type of bread before developing pneumonia, why don't I get to sue the bread maker?
    Submit a detailed account of what happened, let's see where the investigation leads. Dollars to döners that your case is even weaker than the Poling case.
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  21. #21
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    There've been a number of very good epidemiological studies since they began to phase it out, and they haven't found a link between getting vaccines with thimerosal and suffering harmful effects due to it. There have however been very little in the way of toxicology studies on humans, and none that I know of that's examined its effects on a patient such as this, under these circumstances (underlying condition, dosage, combination with vaccines). Please try to understand the uses and limitations of epidemiological research. This case is a rare bird.

    Thimerosal is being phased out because we still follow the principle of caution, and for good reasons.



    It probably means that she's displaying symptoms that are reminiscent of autism, but probably isn't what we generally think of as autism (which isn't a single disorder anyway). Because they couldn't establish that this was garden-variety autism they called it "autism-like".



    Submit a detailed account of what happened, let's see where the investigation leads. Dollars to döners that your case is even weaker than the Poling case.
    See the article by actual doctors. You just lost your bet. Sorry dude.

    And as I've already show, you get professional autism care (40hrs/week) for $70,000. $500,000 is massively out of proportion.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    So, even actual doctors are at a loss as to why this court awards money for "plausible mechanisms" - even when those mechanisms have shown to be non-existant:

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904



    For emphasis:



    So, a mere cold can offset those symptoms - isn't that fun? But, wait, it gets better:
    Yes but as you no doubt know an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and very little of the article you posted has much to do with the specifics of the Poling case. Rather it deals with the possible consequences of being careless in handling these sorts of cases, which is a very legitimate concern. The bits you bolded aren't particularly relevant or enlightening in the context of the present discussion, sorry. However, the bit in brackets that comes after your second bolded paragraph sheds some more light on why they may have come to this ruling: namely that they couldn't rule out the vaccine's involvement in her case, even though it may have been innocent and just framed by some other bug. However we tend to go with "guilty until proven innocent", in the case of many (if not most?) medical interventions.
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    See the article by actual doctors. You just lost your bet. Sorry dude.
    Er, you haven't actually provided an account of your bread-induced pneumonia case, and you haven't even read the article you posted. As for docs, hey, the kid's dad's a neurologist, big who cares. These are opinion-pieces, even though they're in the NEJM.

    And as I've already show, you get professional autism care (40hrs/week) for $70,000. $500,000 is massively out of proportion.
    And as I've alredy explained I don't know why they were awarded those sums and neither do you. We've concluded that it can't just have been for "professional autism care", and since we have no more info to go on maybe we should be good little scientists and not start frothing at the mouth.








    ps. while it is clear that I can easily at any time slip and break a bone, if YOU push me and I break a bone then you're sure as hell going to get a talking to, even if we were ice-dancing at the time.

    Btw, the findings of any study on a medical intervention can be very easily criticised like so: "the intervention hasn't been sufficiently well tested on people like me", where "people like me" can mean anything from "short" to "people with a mitochondrial disorder to got a buncha vaccines at a young age and who then developed brain-damage caused by encephalopathy". What you can show with those studies is that that medical intervention may be a worthwhile risk to take, ie. that its benefits may outweigh the risks in most people. Don't get mad about this. That's a limitation we're stuck with.

    And before you blow your lid again, as you are so often wont to do, I would like to clarify that all I'm trying to do here is to strike a blow for caution and humility.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    But, hey, let's simply award money for mere correlations! I ate a new type of bread before developing pneumonia, why don't I get to sue the bread maker?
    Because since there isn't a "no fault" court, you'd have to prove that they engaged in wrongful behavior which is to blame for your pneumonia?
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  25. #25
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Because since there isn't a "no fault" court, you'd have to prove that they engaged in wrongful behavior which is to blame for your pneumonia?
    Problem here: They haven't proven that either. They've just given a "plausible hypothesis". If we convicted people on the basis of a "plausible hypothesis" (without having to show actual evidence!), how much more overcrowded would our prisons be?

    Also keep in mind that this court has awarded money to someone who gave such a "plausible hypothesis" contrary to established medicinal findings.
    When the stars threw down their spears
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    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Also keep in mind that this court has awarded money to someone who gave such a "plausible hypothesis" contrary to established medicinal findings.
    There is no established medical truth yet in this particular matter, and vaccines aren't black people so they don't actually go to jail.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  27. #27
    btw, on the matter of "proof", I'd like to point out that this court has gotten thousands of these vaccine/autism complaints and probably only awarded a couple of them (including this one). I think the proof speaks for itself: this court isn't inclined to "award money for dumb shit". Studies have confirmed this
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  28. #28
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    btw, on the matter of "proof", I'd like to point out that this court has gotten thousands of these vaccine/autism complaints and probably only awarded a couple of them (including this one). [...]
    Yet. You didn't read the part where they awarded money even when there was clear medical evidence to the contrary, did you?

    You've just failed again. We're awarding money for what could be, just has to sound reasonable? Geeze, that's totally not abusable.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Yet. You didn't read the part where they awarded money even when there was clear medical evidence to the contrary, did you?
    I did, but then I decided to go straight to the source and find out why they came to that decision:

    http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/...Werderitsh.pdf


    The first part is a fairly tedious description of the case, and then there's a fairly thorough discussion of the available knowledge at the time, and then there is a very clear discussion about why, by the rules of their game, the lady should get compensation. It's not a dismissal of science. Rather it's an acknowledgement of the rules of this particular game and of the present limitations of science.

    You should have just done your own research instead of wasting my damn' time.
    Last edited by Aimless; 09-13-2010 at 03:09 PM.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  30. #30
    Page 38 might be the best place for you to start unless you're really very interested in MS.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

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