Memory of Light

[Hazir]

Well, tomorrow the cause of my being here on this site is going to reach its final installment; Memory of Light is going to be published. I joined up at Atari because of the discussions about the Wheel of Time books that went on overthere. Of course over time the lack of progress by Jordan in writing and his death sort of sapped the debates, which I really think is too bad. They made reading and re-reading books more fun as far as I was concerned. Anyway, when I start reading MoL in a little over 24 hours, I will do so feeling a bit melancholic.

[Aimless]

Theoryland has been very active over the years, and I have to admit I've been impressed as well as entertained by much of the better quality analyses.

Also, you bastard I have yet to order the book

[Dreadnaught]

I thought this thread was some kind of terrible announcement that you were going blind.

Having not ever followed those WoT books, there is something really compelling about a posthumously-published "final work" that the author didn't get to finish.

[Lewkowski]

I thought this thread was some kind of terrible announcement that you were going blind.

Having not ever followed those WoT books, there is something really compelling about a posthumously-published "final work" that the author didn't get to finish.

Tastes vary but if you have even a shred of interest in the fantasy genre you should pick it up. It slows down midway through but its worth completing.

[Aimless]

I've just read the last sentence of A Memory of Light.

The last sentence

of The Wheel of Time.

[Lebanese Dragon]

It is sad. I too came to this forum, to the forum before that atari forum. I'm racking my brain for the original URL, what did i type in for so many years . When Aimless was Minx the high schoolers making fun of wickan kids, I believe. I was always under the impression he went to school with spawnie. I was one of the last people to find the Jade Monkey, but when I did it was easier than it used to be. What I'm most excited about is the ending OF COURSE, and then who killed Asmodean (Which sanderson promised to reveal).

My prediction were as follows:

The end: 1.) Somehow the wheel will break, ending the cycle of rebirth. The One Power will be permanently lost as well and we'll essentially turn into our world. Rand, Elayne, Aviendha, Min, Mat, Tuon, Perrin, the hawk girl, Egwene, all those people will end up alive. That's roughly it, what i recall predicting.

2.) I always thought Graendal killed Asmo. Used to be Lanfear but someone noted it couldn't have been her.


We'll find those out soon enough can't wait until i get my hands on the book. As a matter of trivia Brandon Sanderson had already correctly predicted who Asmo's killer was.

Edit: Was it just wheeloftime. com that i typed in?

[Lewkowski]

Wow e-book not available yet. TOR is retarded.

[Parmenio]

It's been a while... oddly I finished the book this morning and this site came to mind I don't know if this community would exist if not for WoT, it could but as I recall if it wasn't for us using Falcon 4.0 as an off topic discussion area at Atari they might not have created the gen chat area, which then morphed into something that Atari decided to cut off. Do people here even realize where RB got his name from?

Seriously it was like someone used compulsion on me to finish the book (which I only realized the final book was coming out a couple months before, after sooooo damn long I had to just finish the thing, and it felt really good.

So..... to pretend their was no end to Atari... i'm going to create a spoiler thread for discussion, see if anyone has their old school skills still...

[Parmenio]

Wow e-book not available yet. TOR is retarded.

Come on Lewk, it's smart business, they damn well know that after as long as this has been hanging that the diehards would buy whatever comes out first, and those that re-read (see; diehard) are also willing to buy the ebook for convenience too... it's all about the $, as it should be. (although I already know you can bogart the ebook for free if you know what your about....).

[Aimless]

It wasn't Tor's decision. According to Brandon, it was Harriet's decision, ostensibly because she wanted to make sure that each edition tops every single best-seller list that matters.

[Khendraja'aro]

Well, I have this rule that if I even have a single book of a series in paper form - then the rest of the books of this series have to been in paper form as well.

If possible I also try to buy the same form factor (small paperback, big paperback, hard cover) and the same cover illustrations for all the books in that series.

[Ominous Gamer]

Wow e-book not available yet. TOR is retarded.

to pile on to everyone elses reasons. TOR is DRM free, so it makes business sense to hold off on that front until they milk the paper format. Especially considering the age of the series and the age of its biggest fans.

[Lewkowski]

Come on Lewk, it's smart business, they damn well know that after as long as this has been hanging that the diehards would buy whatever comes out first, and those that re-read (see; diehard) are also willing to buy the ebook for convenience too... it's all about the $, as it should be. (although I already know you can bogart the ebook for free if you know what your about....).

I'm not going to steal it but I'll be damned if I buy it hardback. I'll just wait until later on in the year.

[Aimless]

Wow e-book not available yet. TOR is retarded.

Business doing something I don't like, business must be retarded

[Ominous Gamer]

I'm not going to steal it but I'll be damned if I buy it hardback. I'll just wait until later on in the year.

So you didn't start reading the series until 10 years after it started?

[Lewkowski]

Business doing something I don't like, business must be retarded

The free market punishes mistakes -it doesn't make it less irritating in the short term though.

[Lewkowski]

So you didn't start reading the series until 10 years after it started?

Now that I have a Kindle and an iPhone I never want to read a physical book again. They are annoying to lug around, they take up space on my shelf and in general I've gotten used to reading it on the devices. It also is less costly for the publisher to put out an e-book since they don't have to pay for the paper, ink or binding. Its a win-win for everyone.

I didn't know about RJ's widow being a dumb cow and insisting on a retarded release.

[Lebanese Dragon]

How is that a mistake? It's the same strategy of movies who break up their films into multiple parts, why because people want to watch that movie about that character (you can think of this as a monopoly on that character).

So they're getting the die-hards to buy the expensive copy (because they're going to buy it anyway). Then release it electronically and many more will buy it, and die-hards may buy it again for the convienience of their kindle or nook.

[Lewkowski]

How is that a mistake? It's the same strategy of movies who break up their films into multiple parts, why because people want to watch that movie about that character (you can think of this as a monopoly on that character).

So they're getting the die-hards to buy the expensive copy (because they're going to buy it anyway). Then release it electronically and many more will buy it, and die-hards may buy it again for the convienience of their kindle or nook.

1. You could sell the kindle version at the same price as the hardback. Publisher profits because e-book costs less to create.
2. You alienate the fans of the series. Currently its sitting at a 3 star review on Amazon. Nearly all the 1 star reviews are about the lack of a e-book at release.
3. I've seen other posts where people have just said "fk it I'm pirating it, you lost my money." Not that I condone it but it is an obvious response to this short sighted decision.

Also looking at another WOT forum I've learned that that RJ's wife dislikes e-books and doesn't consider them "real." Which probably influenced her decision. It turns out the publisher wasn't even at fault here but one idiotic Luddite who only matters because her husband could write.

[Lebanese Dragon]

1. You could sell the kindle version at the same price as the hardback. Publisher profits because e-book costs less to create.

A lot of people gripe when the e-book is the same price as the physical book. That aside more people will likely buy the e-book even though they have they already bought the hardback, than those will go out and buy the hardback if they have the e-books. So essentially they'll be able to sell the book twice to the same person if they market it hardback first. It sucks as a practice, I just get it. Lucas did it with his SW films. (DVD edition) (special edition) (extra special edition). Hard back (electronic version), electronic version with writers notes, etc... it's a dumb practice but it makes sense when they're the only seller of that story.

2. You alienate the fans of the series. Currently its sitting at a 3 star review on Amazon. Nearly all the 1 star reviews are about the lack of a e-book at release.

Wierd way to rate a book i.e. based on it's availability. Hard to see the impact this will have on sales, early ratings are always volatile anyway (they swing a lot).

3. I've seen other posts where people have just said "fk it I'm pirating it, you lost my money." Not that I condone it but it is an obvious response to this short sighted decision

This could be a problem. The morally concious ones will at least buy when it's available to them. I agree this is a problem.

But it's hard to account for this, other than to say the people that will pirate probably pirate stuff anyway, and the other people probably don't even know how to pirate it. But, I don't know how many sales will be lost.

[Aimless]

Wow Lewk you're being a real dickbag when talking about Harriet.

[Aimless]

I mean, I'm not surprised that your misogyny and lack of respect come out like this when you're throwing a big baby tantrum. But I am just a little surprised that you don't know that Harriet is also one of Tor's editors, notably the most important editor of WoT, not to mention the person managing Jordan's estate.

Oh yeah, as well as the editor of Ender's Game, and an editor for Way of Kings, the person who chose Sanderson to finish the series, the person in charge of the upcoming WoT encyclopedia

Oh wait, I get it... female editors have no skill or merit, they are dumb cows who don't matter and have no value of their own.

[Aimless]

Worst of all, you seem to still be incapable of reading:

This is not my decision or Tor’s decision, but Harriet’s. She is uncomfortable with ebooks. Specifically, she worries about ebooks cutting into the hardcover sales. It isn’t about money for her, as the monetary difference between the two is negligible here. It is about a worry that her husband’s legacy will be undermined if sales are split between ebooks and hardcovers, preventing the last book of the Wheel of Time from hitting number one on either list. (Many of the bestseller lists are still handling ebooks in somewhat awkward ways.)

As the last books have all hit number one, she doesn’t want to risk one of these not hitting number one, and therefore ending the series on a down note. (Even though each Wheel of Time book has sold more than its predecessor, including the ones I have worked on.) I personally feel her worries are unfounded, and have explained that to her, but it is not my choice and I respect her reasoning for the decision. She is just trying to safeguard Robert Jordan’s legacy, and feels this is a very important way she needs to do so. After talking about the issue, we were able to move the ebook up from the originally planned one-year delay to instead come out this spring.

[Lebanese Dragon]

I didn't know about RJ's widow being a dumb cow and insisting on a retarded release.

I think Minx's 4 replies is a bit excessive, but why are you so passionate about this? Their choice, their book. Not up to you for them to be logical or illogical in how they sell it, secondly you sound like a teenagers who throws a tantrum when they dont' get what they want. Human being, not just you Lewk, have a wierd way of expressing anger. When their angry or why their angry is often so misguided, they're angry at the wrong things disproportianatel.y

[Parmenio]

I mean, I'm not surprised that your misogyny and lack of respect comes out like this when you're throwing a big baby tantrum. But I am just a little surprised that you don't know that Harriet is also one of Tor's editors, notably the most important editor of WoT, not to mention the person managing Jordan's estate.

Obviously I haven't been around here for a while but there appears to be some history between you and Lewk.

However a lot of people have taken issue with Harriet's decision to delay the release, including Sanderson because he has said that he talked her into releasing E-book much sooner than she realized. I would have to say her reasoning is rather off putting, it isn't money (which I can respect) but being a #1 nyt bestseller? I find that unsatisfying to delay the release, as should anyone who is a big fan of the books. You can only look at all the 1 star reviews on Amazon and see that this is a rather big deal for fans that have stayed with a project through thick and thin some for almost 20 years (I'm at about 15 years), she is basically sticking it to the fans to try to help her dead husbands streak alive??? I'd rather her tell me I want to milk your wallets.

Personally I don't mind it, it's $20, not a huge issue, I bought the hardcover, I will buy the e-book (I already have a pirated version if I wanted to read it that way, but I don't).

[Aimless]

I get it, I think e-books are awesome too. But here's the thing: many fans are mad because they aren't able to purchase the book in the precise form they want it. But why is that suddenly a legitimate reason to get mad? How many people get mad about companies releasing hardbacks before paperbacks? How many get mad about companies releasing expensive editions before cheap ones? How many people really get mad that companies use DRM instead of offering completely DRM-free content? The answer to the last question isn't an obvious one at all considering how many people are itching to get their hands on the Kindle version of A Memory of Light.

If Lewk doesn't want to buy the hardback version he doesn't actually have to buy the hardback version. He can wait to get his hands on a digital version if it's that important to him.

In an irrational way her irrational reasoning makes perfect sense. It's the last book in the series and for her it's very important that it hits #1 on major bestseller lists. I can grok that. She hasn't delayed the release of the book; she's only delayed the release of the digital edition of the book.

[Parmenio]

I get it, I think e-books are awesome too. But here's the thing: many fans are mad because they aren't able to purchase the book in the precise form they want it. But why is that suddenly a legitimate reason to get mad? How many people get mad about companies releasing hardbacks before paperbacks? How many get mad about companies releasing expensive editions before cheap ones? How many people really get mad that companies use DRM instead of offering completely DRM-free content? The answer to the last question isn't an obvious one at all considering how many people are itching to get their hands on the Kindle version of A Memory of Light.

Well I see your point, and was mildly perturbed that it wasn't released in e-book mainly because I only like to lug around my kindle, I don't like to carry around a huge book anymore, as is the same reason most fans like ebook. To your point of why it's a legitimate reason... because many many fans think it's a reason is why. As you point out this isn't the only example of a company not putting out what fans want, but it becomes a problem when people are upset (yes this is a customer service oriented answer, and in my job I know that the customer is not always right), and it becomes a bigger problem with the degree to which they are upset, and if they are willing to forgo actually buying hardcover and e-book for their own reasons. I know of several (and I don't know many WoT readers IRL) that have just pirated the e-book. So this could very much hurt more than help Harriet in her cause.

In an irrational way her irrational reasoning makes perfect sense. It's the last book in the series and for her it's very important that it hits #1 on major bestseller lists. I can grok that. She hasn't delayed the release of the book; she's only delayed the release of the digital edition of the book.

It's her choice, but I think it's a childish reason, again Sanderson has seen her delay significant enough to get her to speed up the release of e-book and enough readers are upset enough to actually pirate the book (not to mention specifically address it on his blog), so I'd say it's a pretty big deal.

You are correct that she hasn't delayed the release, but for many many fans that only want to read the e-book (myself included), in essence she did delay it for them, otherwise she's forcing people to buy a hardcover that they will only replace with an e-book in 4 months because if you want to re-read the series (as I have done, and many others like to do) e-book makes that easiest.

[Lewkowski]

Worst of all, you seem to still be incapable of reading:

Checkout the discussion on Dragonmount - she holds e-books in contempt.

As for his legacy - see the 3 star rating on Amazon. Furthermore what kind of insecure moron cares so much about hitting a number on a list if the list is calculated incorrectly. Its like "Yay I got the highest test score because the test had the wrong answer key! Woooohhhhooooo Goooooo me!" Its bull shit.

[Lewkowski]

I think Minx's 4 replies is a bit excessive, but why are you so passionate about this? Their choice, their book. Not up to you for them to be logical or illogical in how they sell it, secondly you sound like a teenagers who throws a tantrum when they dont' get what they want. Human being, not just you Lewk, have a wierd way of expressing anger. When their angry or why their angry is often so misguided, they're angry at the wrong things disproportianatel.y

Luddites disgust me. Its a matter of principal for me. If e-books didn't exist I would have no problem purchasing the hardback - I have several WOT hardbacks. If e-book came out at the same price of the hardbook I'd have no problem purchasing it either. The idea that somehow a physical book "means" more then an electronic copy is type of idiocy that makes people worried about pesticides. Its regressive ignorant nonsense.

Also RJ and his wife are a pretty awful team. About the only good thing they have done in the last decade is pick Sanderson to finish it. From RJ's nonsensical "I'm going to have my notes burned when I die" talk to his meandering storyline that can't seem to get anywhere (Hello Crossroads of Twilight...) and now this retarded move by Harriet I've come to the conclusion those two just plain suck. Yes he wrote a good world but both of them just infuriate me. I've told other people I know who read the books that RJ dying was the BEST thing to happen to the WOT series.

[Lewkowski]

I mean, I'm not surprised that your misogyny and lack of respect come out like this when you're throwing a big baby tantrum. But I am just a little surprised that you don't know that Harriet is also one of Tor's editors, notably the most important editor of WoT, not to mention the person managing Jordan's estate.

Oh yeah, as well as the editor of Ender's Game, and an editor for Way of Kings, the person who chose Sanderson to finish the series, the person in charge of the upcoming WoT encyclopedia

Oh wait, I get it... female editors have no skill or merit, they are dumb cows who don't matter and have no value of their own.

What is with the misogyny bull shit lately? I pick who I like and dislike based on their actions not their gender. If RJ was alive and making the same decision I'd talk about what an ass he is being too. Choosing Sanderson was an excellent decision but why is the fact that she is an editor for WOT and other books at all relevant to the discussion? Its like saying "How dare you attack Obama he won a Nobel Peace Prize!" The decision is moronic and I really hope she regrets seeing her husbands "legacy" forever 3 starred on Amazon and regrets her decision for a very long time.