Originally Posted by Ender
They wanted it for the sake of wanting it?
It's not a big deal, it's just stupid.
They wanted it for the sake of wanting it?
It's not a big deal, it's just stupid.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
No the opposite. Liberals often make the case that all cultures are equal and that America needs to be more "Multicultural." Clearly in your post you were passing judgment on "WASPY" ones with "GROSS" displays of wealth. And then you identified that as also being a cultural thing. So you are in fact stating not all cultures are equal, I was just giving you some kudos.Wait, what? That's not what I said at all. But what about not all cultures being equal is somehow a "liberal" idea?
What grand and glorious Amerikan culture do you think exists, Lewk?
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
Not precisely. Case in point: the wife and I were fine with hiring a cheap DJ or even just setting up a laptop/iPod with a sound system, but her father felt that the joy of the occasion (this was actually his term) would be enhanced by having a real band playing a specific sort of music, so he imported a guy from Atlanta to hire some local talent and play the music he wanted, live. It easily added $5-10k to the price and to be honest none of the guests probably would have cared one way or the other, but he wanted it so he got it.
They wanted it for the sake of wanting it?
Same goes for a videographer - we thought it was a stupid expense (uh, about $3k I think?) for a video we'd watch at most a handful of times and no one else would even look at (certainly not an external pressure there), but they felt that we'd appreciate having a video record of the event to look at with our kids a few decades down the road. I think it's stupid, but they wanted it and paid for it, so who cares?
Ditto for a wedding cake (~$1k), fancy dress ($1k including alterations), the longer guest list (mostly their friends), fancy invitations ($800), etc, etc. Cut out the unnecessary bits and just have a nice party with food and music and you're talking maybe $20k, which is the US average (and IMO quite reasonable for a once-in-a-lifetime kinda party). But their motivation had little to do with what they thought other people would think and more with what they wanted for the party. That is to an extent informed by their perception of culturally appropriate weddings, but it's not some slavish adherence to a dream princess wedding or whatever.
I find it hard to believe their idea of a tasteful, nice party was formed in a vacuum, but I suppose the point is semantic. And if one is accustomed to a life-style where 20 grand isn't a big deal, what else would their instinct be?
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Dude, $20k most definitely is a big deal, but so is getting married. It's not like it matters to the marriage, but it matters because you're throwing a big party to celebrate a significant life event.
What I don't get is that when it comes to a wedding, you suddenly pay a lot more than you should for a certain service. Look at DJs: excellent club DJs who are actually good and make their own music get what, 1k for a show. But some crappy DJ who only spins records after eachother gets more if he does it at a wedding. 5-10k for a band? Seriously? I used to book bands, for the best cover band in town (which is presumably what you wanted) you'd be easily settled for 1k. But somehow, bands that play at weddings can get tenfold while they are less good. It seems to me the entire wedding planning spirit is 'i don't care what it costs, i want to have a good time' and people screw you over for that attitude. Same for the videographer, 3k?
And to be honest, the way you post it it sounds more like the parents' party than yours, while I was under the impression a wedding was supposed to be about the married couple. E.g. inviting your friends, not theirs. And $20k still seems to me like a lot for a 'nice party with food and music'.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Of course it was my in-laws party and not ours. Where did I suggest it was anything other than that? They wanted to celebrate their daughter getting married, so they threw a big party. We were happy to take the $15k and elope.
My initial point was that focusing on the married couple for understanding why weddings in the US cost so much is missing the point completely. Most couples would happily take the money over the party, but they acquiesce to the wishes of family members - parents, grandparents, etc. - who also frequently foot a big chunk of the bill. They pay for it, they choose what happens.
We do???I must have missed that meeting.
The truth is, cultures compete, evolve, prosper or whither in a way loosely analogous to natural selection working on species evolution.
By the way, what do you mean by "equal?" And what do you think "multicultural" means anyway?
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
What used to exist (and is probably almost fully degraded now) is a culture of independence. A culture of self-reliance and innovation. Where the present mattered more then the past and the future mattered more then the present. limitless expansion and full blown optimism.
You mean like in the gay 20's?
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
Are you high? How's that independence and self-reliance work for health care, like cancer treatment? Or community services like FDs putting out house fires. Or for that matter, any insurance product that you love to pimp?
Also......THAN!
Local rag reports that a local wedding-magazine had a website survey with a couple thousand responders, average (I can't tell whether they mean average or median) wedding budget in Fin-land was 7300 €, and only "a few percent" spend more than 10 000 €. Interestingly, the older the couple, the cheaper the wedding. "Almost half" spend less than 5000 €.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
You're younger, you want a bigger party, you have more friends, you spend more.
You're older, you want a quieter occasion, you have less friends, you spend less.
Generalising, but it fits the trend.
I thought it could be boiled down to the older you are, the less likely your parents will foot the bill, or help.
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
And older people are more cynical and less likely to believe in the fantasy that it will last forever and will be the most important day of the rest of your life and
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Cyncial? I think you mean realistic &/or experienced.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
You don't say!
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
20 grand? Come on, it's possible to be thrifty and still have an excellent wedding. My wedding and honeymoon combined cost less than half of that. And it probably would have cost even less if my parents hadn't insisted on inviting some of the people they did. But they paid for the reception so I really wasn't going to fight about that. If they hadn't I'd certainly would have done things a little cheaper. Two of my friends recently got married by a justice of the peace at a park, basically cost them just the marriage license and it was very sweet. Everyone wants these fairy-tale weddings. Well, if you can afford to do it, go for it. But don't go into debt for something like that. I always think simple is so much more meaningful than lavish affairs.
Saying it's an economic thing is a cop-out if both parties are full-time employed. It's so much easier to pool your money together, get tax breaks, get preapproved for mortgages and the like. And my credit score went up considerably after being married.
Not being married has its benefits if you are benefitting from social programs that cater to single parents and such. But two single childless people, there really isn't a benefit to not being married for money reasons.
It's just easier to not commit. You can leave at any time. You don't have your money muddled together. You can just get the hell out of Dodge when the going gets tough.
Though this doesn't apply if you're dumb enough to buy a house together, with both names on the mortgage. That's a huge civil court mess that people should avoid doing at all costs.
Anyway, I believe it is social. You come from a divorce-happy society, where cheating is the norm and no one gets slapped for it anymore. It's costly to get a divorce sometimes, litigation on who gets what, yadayadayada. The thought of spending your whole life with someone, when really nowadays you can have sex with whoever you want with little social consequence, seems archaic to some. Women have more choices than they did back in the day. Having a career doesn't always give you time to get serious with someone. Gotta get up that corporate ladder as fast as you can!
That's not always the case. If men can balance work and home life, so can women. And they do very often.
I found the love of my life, and got married as a show of my love, and so I can have a family. It's just the way I like to operate. It's not required of today's society, and it's not everyone's cup of tea. But to me getting married was a very easy thing for me to do. No regrets, no cold feet, no ill thoughts. Having a child is way harder than committing to my true love. But again, that isn't the way everyone feels nowadays. You certainly don't have to have a "married" status to get ahead nowadays. So, to each their own. Our society has made it so we can do as we please, frees up relationships somewhat.
Didn't see wiggins post about family interference, but yes that's usually why you get such high averages on weddings nowadays. The couples that pay for it themselves usually opt for less expensive events, that are just as lovely and often more personal. Don't get me wrong, I had a great time at my wedding but it went by so fast that I didn't really get to eat or dance as much as I'd like. There won't ever be a next time, but I would have been just as happy getting married in the park or even a Vegas visit.
Ronald and I got married for about €50 on a monday morning at this location :
Congratulations America
The problem there is that there are still more expectations from a working woman than there would be from a working man - particularly if there are children involved.
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
That's true. You still have to go home and clean, cook, and check homework, wipe butts, etc. Some guys are good about helping out after work (I'm lucky to have one) but yes, it's usually the woman expected to do everything. Supermoms and all that.
Wow Hazir that's a beautiful spot! Proves you can get married anywhere, at any price. The only thing that really matters is that two people are together that day pledging their lives to each other.
(I'm not knocking people that don't believe in marriage btw. It's not for everyone.) I personally don't worry about government interference and blah blah blah. That day in front of the justice, everyone else melted away and for 15 minutes it was just him and I looking at each other, saying vows.
Whut is that?
A castle in the care of the municipality where I used to live. We didn't make it a big affair, but the room where the actual wedding took place was quite palatial.
Congratulations America
Jeebus, you could sign the Treaty of Versailles in there, no less a marriage contract.
IIRc that little table in the is where we actually signed after the ceremony itself.
Congratulations America
You got married?! Well congratulations!
Wow, what a lovely place to get married.
You are about 11 years late.You got married?! Well congratulations!
Wow, what a lovely place to get married.
Congratulations America
Better late than never.
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