Dutch policy on soft drugs to be tightened

[Hazir]

In about a week or so The Netherlands will finally have a new government. One of the more remarkable policy changes the coming government is going to clamp down on the 'coffeeshops' in the country where people can freely buy and use hash and marijuana. Up till now the rules where that coffeeshops were tolerated if they wouldn't sell to people under 18, didn't see any other illegal drugs or alcohol.

The new proposed policies are that coffeeshops will only be allowed to serve customers who are registered members of at least 18 years old and who are residents in The Netherlands. Also the rule that a coffeeshop should be no closer to a school than 350 meters away is going to be enforced a lot stricter.

I must say that I am kind of in favour of these rules. I'm sort of fed up with the young drugged out tourist we really get too many off here in central Amsterdam. They don't know how to limit themselves and too often that results in behaviour that's extremely harmful to others. Not so long ago a tourist from Brazil got paralized for life, just because an Australian after a session of drugs and alcohol thought he could leave his hotelroom through the 4th floor window.

[']['ear]

I fondly recall being a young drugged out tourist in central Amsterdam once. I was hanging out tossing a disc with some hippie dude I met in the hostel, then some lady came and let her Doberman into the little park. It proceeded to dash up and down the park, disturbingly close to me, all while slather flecked it's jaws. {shiver}

[Dreadnaught]

Any sense of what this will do to tourism? To be honest, a lot of my friends have visited Amsterdam strictly to be in an environment were pot is tolerated. None are delinquent, but Amsterdam was on their list because of said coffee shops.

Which doesn't mean my generation of tourists will make-or-break Dutch tourism. But it's gotta be a big part of it.

[Flixy]

Living close to the border, I'd say that drugs traffic to Belgium and France are even bigger problems. The drug policy in the Netherlands works, for the people who live here. Almost all nuisance around coffeeshops here is due to people from abroad who are doing their groceries here. So I approve of this, though it will probably lead to a slightly bigger black market (reselling to tourists).

I am less than happy about a registered pass system so they can look up how often I go to the coffeeshop and what I buy, though. It's not like our government has a good track record with privacy.

[Nessus]

Do you care if someone knows how much weed you buy?

[Flixy]

I don't know. But I like to keep my privacy anyway. Maybe it's irrational, but I don't like them tracking where I travel with public transportation either.

[Hazir]

Any sense of what this will do to tourism? To be honest, a lot of my friends have visited Amsterdam strictly to be in an environment were pot is tolerated. None are delinquent, but Amsterdam was on their list because of said coffee shops.

Which doesn't mean my generation of tourists will make-or-break Dutch tourism. But it's gotta be a big part of it.

To be honest I could care less about what it does to a certain type of tourism. It's generally the type of tourist that stays at hostels, eat out at doorsteps of supermarkets and are bummed out on weed most of the day.

[']['ear]

It's not black and White, Hazir, and you can't generalize tourists like that. I stayed in a hostel. I got stoned once. I was not, as Dread says, delinquent. I also was in the city a few days, and cruised around seeing the Van Gogh museum and other sights in your beautiful city. Then I went down to Paris to meet my girlfriend.

[Nessus]

You were 20-something, you were delinquent and a nuisance. It goes with the age.

[']['ear]

Ah, I see. How, err, bourgeois of Hazir. A snooty man of means.

[Hazir]

It's not black and White, Hazir, and you can't generalize tourists like that. I stayed in a hostel. I got stoned once. I was not, as Dread says, delinquent. I also was in the city a few days, and cruised around seeing the Van Gogh museum and other sights in your beautiful city. Then I went down to Paris to meet my girlfriend.

It is that black and white, it's a sort of tourism that causes more troubles than it's worth. I doubt even that they still visit museums as those have become quite expensive to visit.

[Khendraja'aro]

You damn kids! Get off my lawn!

/waves cane around

[Hazir]

We're not talking about people being a mere nuisance. We're talking about people actually harming other people (there are ample examples of people being maimed for life or nice examples of pets being set alight alive) and almost without fail they are connected to tourists being drugged out. You know, because they think 'anything goes' just because some things are tolerated. The continuance of the old policies is about as responsable as putting a child behind the wheel of a car and igniting the engine.

And as has been pointed out by Flixy, a member considerably younger than I, the problems in Amsterdam are relatively mild compared to those in cities close to the border. You can safely assume that a huge majority of Dutch people are quite willing to restrict this particular freedom to get rid of unwanted side effects.

[Khendraja'aro]

When I jobbed for EuropCar, we had regular calls from the Dutch-German border police who informed us that we could pick up another of our cars. Sans passengers, of course.

Only topped by the military police in Ramstein who asked who the driver of a certain car was, parked in front of the base where it shouldn't be parked. Turned out to be an Afghan. During the Afghanistan war.

[Flixy]

It's not black and White, Hazir, and you can't generalize tourists like that. I stayed in a hostel. I got stoned once. I was not, as Dread says, delinquent. I also was in the city a few days, and cruised around seeing the Van Gogh museum and other sights in your beautiful city. Then I went down to Paris to meet my girlfriend.

Tourism is seriously, in the weed business, small peanuts. I came from a city with ~20.000 people, with two legal coffeeshops, and one sold more then 10 kg a day. The entire idea of legalization as we have it is that people are educated on the dangers of drugs and make their own decision about it, cutting criminals out of the loop. This way, the vast majority of all drugs went straight to drug dealers from abroad, who are criminals, and to people who were not educated about drugs.

It's a similar things with magic mushrooms. Used to be legal, not much trouble, most people knew what to combine it with and what not, how to use it etc., and smartshops that sold them would advise you on how to use them. Fun stuff. Then toursits come , think everything is okay here, use way too much alcohol, weed and shrooms in the same day, flip out, harm themselves and others, cause a lot of trouble.

Not to mention the political problems of us practically supplying the neighbour countries with drugs that are illegal there, they are less than amused by it.

The point of our policy is providing our own citizens with the drugs they want without the added criminality surrounding it.

And Tear, you could still go to amstercam, stay in a hostel, cruise around, seeing the sights, visting the musea. Hell, you'd probably have no trouble finding weed (even I, and I hardly get any, get a decent share outside the official business), still. It would just be less of a no-limits drugs bonanza for tourists. I mean, if I can score weed in the USA, an American can score weed in Amsterdam if only Dutch people can buy it.

[']['ear]

Breaking the law in a foreign country is the height of lunacy. Of course, I want soft drug legalization in the US, and I think your neighbors should stop meddling in the personal lives of their citizens. Is it a surprise that I dislike watching you curtail those rights?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Breaking the law in a foreign country is the height of lunacy. Of course, I want soft drug legalization in the US, and I think your neighbors should stop meddling in the personal lives of their citizens. Is it a surprise that I dislike watching you curtail those rights?

easy to say if you don't have to live with the downsides of that. rights of citizens > rights of drugtourists.

[Flixy]

Breaking the law in a foreign country is the height of lunacy. Of course, I want soft drug legalization in the US, and I think your neighbors should stop meddling in the personal lives of their citizens. Is it a surprise that I dislike watching you curtail those rights?

Yeah but we can't legislate in the neighbouring countries now, can we.

And I'm thinking the scope of the law is to limit sale, not having drugs, so as a foreign tourist smoking weed you're probably still perfectly legal. Worst thing, they take it away from you, but they won't arrest you for it. Hell, they don't arrest you if you carry cocaine for yourself, they'll just take it from you. Our enforcement is against dealers, not users.