Solar is far more prevalent than either wind or hydro, and solar will be present longer than both of those.
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Solar is far more prevalent than either wind or hydro, and solar will be present longer than both of those.
Yes, but like everyone else so far you've gotten hung up on the first paragraph. Read the rest. The computer and its robots and jobs.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
The Earth won't be here any longer when we run out of solar power...
. . .
Really?Originally Posted by Being
Look, I agree it's not yet commercially available, but they (SunPower) have a full scale cell working at 24.2% efficiency.
Bullshit. Weather is driven by convection in the atmosphere and evaporation of water, which is driven by solar power. Hydro is effectively a really roundabout way of harnessing solar energy. For that matter, so are fossil fuels and most other forms of energy we use (e.g. wind). Take away the sun, and all of the rest go, too - though at least in the case of fossil fuels you'd still have some residual fuel left without the sun.
Which means the only renewable enegy available to run our interstellar space craft will be human energy. See.The Earth won't be here any longer when we run out of solar power...
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
I guess you weren't taking this seriously in which case I suggest this thread be moved to the appropriate forum. The other option is you really haven't spent time thinking about this, or you really don't understand the subject matter and there is little hope that you will be capable of doing so by the time we lose interest in responding.
. . .
I'm pretty sure you said commercial cells are doing in the low 20s in the post where you tried to make it look like I didn't know what I was talking about.
Why yes you did say that. And you were wrong. The best panels on the market right now are only 14.7% efficient.
And don't believe for one minute that those 20+ efficiency cells will be competatively manufacturable in the next 10 years. These companies (including the one I work for) use outlandish predictions on a regular basis to attract investments. Hell, we have a thin film cell that tops 20% but manufacturing them costs too much. For solar photovoltaics to compete with other commercial sources of energy the cost must get below $1/watt installed. Installed you see. With the distribution network already in place.
Last edited by Being; 10-06-2010 at 11:56 PM.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
And you haven't ventured a guess as to how human beings will continue to be productive when the computer and its robots do everything we used to do. I'm quite serious. I have found a way to keep the human race viable and provide renewable energy even when all other sources are gone.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Except we require food, and the food chain is built on solar energy as well.Which means the only renewable enegy available to run our interstellar space craft will be human energy. See.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Ooops. We better start stockpiling now. We might need a bigger spacecraft too.
Or we can use the human energy to generate solar energy for food production. You know, grow-lamps.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
More so than the cost and effort of finding and mining and processing the ore today? Seems to me the landfills will be relatively easy to mine.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
#1. We're not going to be hurting for plastic. There's plenty of ways, with a little organic chemistry, to get useful materials from any number of plants.
#2. Unless we make a grave design error, the worst the machines will do is fear us (and act to preserve themselves by exterminating us). More likely we'll suffer from sudden and total indifference when we've grown all too dependent upon them.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Not to mention 'weather' is more or less entirely driven by the sun, so ...
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
If we're mining landfills for tin or alumin(i)um, we've either become very environmentally conscious or desperate. One of those (hint: desperate) would indicate that what we're mining is either in very high demand, or has become very rare, and thus would fetch a high price for its sale. Somebody is going to own the dump its in. Somebody with extraction equipment will have to pay for it.
. . .
Ummm, the robots (machines if you will) will be controlled by the computer. The computer will be controlled (or at least given instructions) by its owners (shareholders and board of directors most likely).
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
People acting solely in the best interest of shareholders tend to turn a company into a sociopathic entity that values profit gains more than human life, why would a machine behave differently?
. . .
Whatever, this is stupid. I said 'getting into the low 20s', which they are - a commercial company has demonstrated a full-size solar cell that boasts 24% efficiency. I contrast that in my mind with fundamental research, which can routinely get much higher but hasn't been commercialized yet.
Regardless, my point still stands. Efficiency is getting better, but more importantly costs are dropping. While it might be unfeasible economically to sell 20-some% efficiency solar cells today, I have no doubt that it will get cheap enough to do so in the future. Similarly, the cost of the same efficiency solar cell today is a lot lower than 20 years ago.
I can only assume you're joking.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Yes, it is stupid. Because you didn't do your research before spouting off.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
As much as I agree with the sentiment. didn't we agree that emoticon-only responses were inappropriate in D&D?
You should probably watch who you insult.
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
Uh, that wasn't an insult. It was a statement of fact. Wiggin tried making himself look good by refuting what I knew to be true.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
I disagree with your characterization of events, but let's move on, shall we? Much as I appreciate your ardency and lolli's kindness, let's stick to the thread topic.
I'll post a bigger picture next time
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
That's what I mean by indifference!
All that has to happen is for the cost of getting metal from the landfill to be cheaper than getting it from whatever remote mining nightmare we get it from now. Anyway, I misinterpreted your post to mean digging through the landfill would be costly, not the fact that we're desperate. If it got to that point, we'd just need to get a medium sized nickel-iron asteroid and tow it to orbit. That would provide more metal than has ever been mined on Earth. No worries!If we're mining landfills for tin or alumin(i)um, we've either become very environmentally conscious or desperate. One of those (hint: desperate) would indicate that what we're mining is either in very high demand, or has become very rare, and thus would fetch a high price for its sale. Somebody is going to own the dump its in. Somebody with extraction equipment will have to pay for it.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
This thread is inappropriate in D&D.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it'll be worlds cheaper (heh, get it) to let some third-world residents mine landfills than it would be to develop, test and fine-tune the tech needed to tow a fraking asteroid into a stable and reachable orbit.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Wouldn't people get, y'know, frightfully bored jogging along, endlessly, hour after hour, day after day, on some leccy-generating-treadmill, or equivalent dynamo-muscular arrangement. Really would give new meaning to the phrase; the daily grind.
What does one work toward? Promotion? What would you get, a bigger treadmill?
~
I think by the time our technology reaches the point you are discussing here, our energy supply will be both limitless and endless.
All we need to do then is pleasure our hedonistic selves, and have our every whim and desire met by your robotic slaves.
Might be easier to tap the core -- at least it was in MOO2. Do that would give us a mineral and an energy source, btw. But I think you over-estimate the difficulty and cost of bringing an asteroid home. Sooner or later we have to get our mineral resources and energy off-world and the spin-off benefits will be gigantic.
Note - we could cut costs by skipping, or at least abbreviating greatly, the testing phase. What could go wrong anyway?
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
What indeed.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
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