It's funny how the spectrum goes in the sciences on our campus; the comp sci, math and some physics people are mostly Linux, the rest of physics and chem are comfortable with Windows (to an extent), I think most of astronomy's on Linux too, and then the bio-sciences campus is all about macs macs macs. They have Linux stations for serious number-crunching, but in general the trend reflects the needs of science.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
I was thinking about this when I was throwing the numbers together, but I can't find anything that pointed one way or the other.Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
I know that that PC gaming hardware outsold consoles by about 2:1, but hardware has a wide range of uses.
Also aware that casual gaming is considered a gateway drug in the industry right now, and could very be in they state they are now because of the current limits of the browsers. Just because games like farmville and bejeweled currently look like NES throw backs doesn't mean they will stay that way.
no one remembers the Pippin
This is a rather poor analogy. A more appropriate one would be that we both live in the same neighborhood, except the style of house you bought makes it less likely to be robbed, as not many people own that style of house, and it is more profitable for the thieves to just specialize in breaking into the more common type of house present. While you pay a premium for your special house, if more people followed your lead and bought those houses, then it would become profitable for thieves to start breaking into those houses. The high price point of your house, plus what you're allowed to do in it, is what keeps many people from choosing this style of house though.
The affordable condos they make that everyone buys though seem to get broken into or robbed quite often.
. . .
Except that one needs to be very vigilant with PCs wrt viruses, and even then you get them. But when my wife got her Mac, I didn't realize it but she went a year without getting antivirus software. Any problems? Nah. A PC would have been wrecked within a month.Then its no different than a Windows based PC on that point
Yup, that's pretty true. Has been since I got started in science ca. 1990, too.It's funny how the spectrum goes in the sciences on our campus; the comp sci, math and some physics people are mostly Linux, the rest of physics and chem are comfortable with Windows (to an extent), I think most of astronomy's on Linux too, and then the bio-sciences campus is all about macs macs macs. They have Linux stations for serious number-crunching, but in general the trend reflects the needs of science.
Apple was at the forefront before Microsoft bought Bungie, mainly because of Bungie. Remember the Marathon series and Myth? Bungie was near the top of the heap, and they made their games for Apples. Then Microsoft bought them and steered them for the Xbox.
And no, I won't get into PC vs Mac. Partisans on each end are idiots. It depends on your needs.
Yes! The link to Gizmodo! Gawker is SO cool!
So? Strangely enough, my Windows never crashes as well. Okay, it did crash one time. But that was because the graphics card died. Windows can also run for weeks or months (Windows Server 2008 is not that different from Windows 7). So, I call "Uneducated Bullshit from someone who drank too much Mac Coolaid" on this.
Sorry. And if you want a rock stable system, you use Debian. If you need a really secure box, you use SELinux. There's a reason why MacOS isn't really that big in the server department.
Again, the bullshit. My Windows 7 installation has seen no Virus infection since 7's release. My Vista installation did not suffer from Viruses either. Nor did my XP installation. You're attributing a PEBKAC to the OS. And, no, I did not always run anti virus software.
If MacOS had the same numbers that Windows now has, you'd see the exact same flood of virus attacks. MacOS IS NOT MORE SECURE. That's a false belief. I point out the existance of the website where a mere visit of said website could jailbreak the iPhone (which runs on a derivative of MacOS). That's a pretty serious root exploit. Okay, it's an anecdote, but if you honestly think that a consumer OS can be made 100% secure then you're deluded.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Jesus OG and Khend, listen to yourselves. You're putting words in my mouth and drawing a very detailed (and inaccurate) portrait of me, my lifestyle and my technical expertise based on the fracking computer that I choose to buy.
Yes, I know Apple uses Foxcon. But system design matters, and Apple does that too. And so far my experience is that they've done it better than any PC I've used.
When my second Dell Latitude's motherboard fried because of a stupid hardware design (Dell eventually settled a class action suit for it two years later and repaired it for free...before it broke again in two months), I switched.
When the ThinkPad I was using at work would shut down from overheats while charging and the HD went under after six months (despite having virtually no files on the HD), I switched to a Mac for my business. I've been very happy with the results on both ends so far. I think Apple designing their software to work with specific hardware has benefitted them in their PCs and, because most of what I do is browser-based.
It doesn't mean I like the iPhone or that I'll be wedded to Apple forever, or that I think Apple is even the right choice for most people. I have an inkling that Chrome OS may fit that bill within a year or two.
Well, pardon me, but: First you buy from a company which is not exactly known for hardware quality. Then you buy again from the same company. And the Thinkpad wouldn't have been IBM-Lenovo or still only IBM? Because the former has also massive quality issues.
And then you bought an Apple.
Great. That's like buying a cheap Ford, buying a cheap Ford again, switching to moderately priced Buick. Then you buy a Mercedes and complain that your previous cars were not as good. Right.
A proper comparison would be Sony or Toshiba to Apple. That would be a correct comparison. And, no, "Apple didn't design their software to work with specific hardware". If I wanted to, I could run MacOS on my own PC. Apple uses run-of-the-mill hardware. There's nothing special about it, save for the insane markup. I mean, did you have a look at the price for a RAM upgrade? The Apple store lists 4GB for 180€. Alternate.de lists the same 4GB for a maximum of 123€ (that's the version intended for Overclockers, though!), with the minimum being 75€.
So, depending on which modules they actually use, it's a markup of 46% to 140%. One of the reasons I'll never buy a Mac. No competition to keep the prices down.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Hey, I gave you objective evaluation, Khen. Consumer Reports has rated macs much better as long as I've read the damned thing. But thanks for sharing your server experiences!Oh, we're talking personal computers and not network software? Tsk. Nice apples and oranges there.
PCs are better for people who have the knowledge to screw around with their comp. Always has been, way back to the nightmare that was DOS. Apples are better for people who aren't into computers for their own sake, but use them as tools. Heck, in my own building our IT guys are constantly running around and fixing peoples' PCs. They almost never touch Macs, partly because they don't get fubared much, and partly because they are easier for users to figure out themselves.
PCs are also better because of the diversity of software available. There's some software I need for work that isn't available for Macs. Luckily, we have both Macs and PCs at work. A Mac fits my personal needs much better, so I go with that. I've tried both multiple times, and I'm going with Mac for personal use. So's my wife, because she is practically computer illiterate but can rock a Mac. For PC, I was constantly fiddling with the damned thing for her.
You portray the typical arrogance of people who are very conversant with computer systems. "PCs aren't a pain in the ass, because *I* can do X,Y,Z with them!" Guess what? 95% of the world can't do that, and consequently a more user friendly computer is to be preferred. Deal with it.
Generally agreed. Though even computer conversant people use Macs. Them getting in a fit about people buying, liking and using Macs is seriously not worth their aneurisms over it.
I don't get the sense they've ever used one extensively, to be honest. Not like it's some kind of world-changing experience, but I used to have similar opinions about Macs as them until I ended up getting one.
I recently started teaching classes around Apple products. Even talked about it in the happy thread
I just can't believe they can't give me a cheap well-designed functional PC that isn't a netbook. Gimme my goddamned unibody case pls!
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I think they don't like the margins on those devices. iPads are cheap enough to make to charge netbook prices (with a premium). Though overall I think the coming Android/RIM/etc tablets will either bring decent laptops closer to the netbook pricerange [by a bit] or simply end up killing netbooks entirely.
My dreams feature a netbook that looks like the 11.6" macbook airI dunno, I like keyboards, and I haven't figured out yet if I could replace my netbook with a tablet for note-taking and assorted mobile work. I just wish it were aluminium
That arrogance Tear pointed out above reminds me of the discussions I see on many Linux forums. Like, what the hell
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Huh. My father's Lenovo works way better than his Toshiba. I almost never have to try and talk him through getting the Lenovo running, but that Toshiba has always been a pain in my ass.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Oh, is this the PC vs Mac thread? How quaint.
I scanned this mess from page one, but still not sure what the beef is. Granted, I didn't really understand much of the techno-talk, but some came through quite clear about who's an idiot and who's not. Computer Conversant?
Y'all may disagree with me, call me a computer idiot, whatever.
Not sure what those machines can do that I'm missing. I mean, if my mac won't do something I need or want, perhaps I'd want to build my own system, too. But in an age when e-mail and internet can travel on cell phones, phones can take pictures and play music, games can be played on consoles (or cell phones), anything from banking spreadsheets to artwork can be used on the same device, and even our cars can link to maps and services......why is there this continued fight about pc vs mac?
I've only EVER had a mac. And this is only my 3rd computer, in 20 years. I'd still be on #2 if lightning hadn't fried its innards. My son downloaded MS office mac just the other day, because the school district accepts that. No big deal, what's the big deal? Am I missing some function or capability? I don't know what I'm missing if I've never missed it.
Microsoft had closed doors for years, but things still moved forward. Apple was an alternative, and competition was good, but now the complaint is that Apple is closing doors? huh?
Sorry, but I don't understand. Educate me.
I've made fun of Mac users just because of the stereotype.
I'm a Mac, I just want to get it done.
I'm a PC, I want to do it a better way (if at all possible, and I will spend as much time as it takes to find a better way than Mac).
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Stereotypes are based on old ideas and preconceived notions. If any stereotype can be dismissed pretty fast, it would be the mac vs pc, or anything regarding computers.
There might be an itinerate farmer in Somalia who can read this post from their cell phone, if they wanted to. Not sure why they'd want to though....
No, I'm arrogant because I know that most of those "arguments" are purely subjective and most of the time not even true. You said it yourself that you didn't even take a look at Windows 7. And you claimed "constant crashes" when that particular argument went away with Windows XP!Hey, I gave you objective evaluation, Khen. Consumer Reports has rated macs much better as long as I've read the damned thing. But thanks for sharing your server experiences!
PCs are better for people who have the knowledge to screw around with their comp. Always has been, way back to the nightmare that was DOS. Apples are better for people who aren't into computers for their own sake, but use them as tools. Heck, in my own building our IT guys are constantly running around and fixing peoples' PCs. They almost never touch Macs, partly because they don't get fubared much, and partly because they are easier for users to figure out themselves.
PCs are also better because of the diversity of software available. There's some software I need for work that isn't available for Macs. Luckily, we have both Macs and PCs at work. A Mac fits my personal needs much better, so I go with that. I've tried both multiple times, and I'm going with Mac for personal use. So's my wife, because she is practically computer illiterate but can rock a Mac. For PC, I was constantly fiddling with the damned thing for her.
You portray the typical arrogance of people who are very conversant with computer systems. "PCs aren't a pain in the ass, because *I* can do X,Y,Z with them!" Guess what? 95% of the world can't do that, and consequently a more user friendly computer is to be preferred. Deal with it.
And I'm arrogant because of this stupid evangelism you continue to show here: "Ohhhh, I use a Mac! It's so much better! No need to look at other OS to make a comparison!"
And I mentioned server systems because you talked about stability!
And I've used a Mac. It's not the world-upheaving experience you make it out to be. Especially with the 100% price markup. Would someone explain to me with what justification Apple is allowed to make me pay up to 100% more for accessories like RAM?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
He said in a thread started to criticize a new feature of Mac OS...
Aha. So, if you feel you have to defend something, you may now spout unsubstantiated crap? Nice new rule ya got there.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Seriously, what are you talking about. This is deranged. Did you not read the opening post of this thread?
You started off all right, even managed to label an opinion like "great desktops" as your own. Its around relpy 12 that you start pulling your usual tricks. I'm sure by no coincidence, thats when Khen starting replying to you.
Okay, I'll explain it so a child will understand it: Tear spouts crap like "Windows crashes all the time" and "planned hardware obsolescence", gives some anecdotal evidence (part of which is PEBKAC) and I tell him that his "facts" are crap. That's what I responded to and if you had actually followed the thread, you might have seen that.
But you didn't. So, please, Dread, before you make any claims, maybe you could actually follow the thread once in a while?
And the best part is always the "I'm not a <whatever>, but..." which is always a good sign that you actually are what your proclaim not to be.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Again, don't take my word for it:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/e...ters/index.htm
PCs are better for some things, Macs are better for others. Computer savvy folks don't need intuitive user friendly interfaces, but those folks are a relatively small minority. Businesses don't need intuitive user friendly interfaces, because they're going to have IT departments one way or the other.
But most of us benefit greatly from an interface and software that is FAR easier to figure out. Buying her a Mac changed my wife's artistic life immensely, something I'd been trying to do for over ten years. She's a very smart gal, but she's never wasted her time figuring out how computers work (and for her, like most of us, it would be a waste of time; as long as one is a competent user, that's enough). With her Mac, she could dive in fearlessly and start putting stuff together, and she did. Heck, I'd pay an extra $1000 for that. It's a well-designed machine that doesn't require expertise to get into. They always have been, since Microsoft first ripped off parts of the Mac operating system. The fact that it's a well-made machine and that they have the best technical support is icing. They are a niche computer and they excel at satisfying that niche.
PCs are vastly superior in certain areas. But what always gets me is the massive arrogance of PC lovers. Why can't you just accept that different people have needs that aren't best met by a PC? That's all I'm asking for. You don't need to admit Macs are the better computer, because they aren't. They're just the better computer for some people.
It's like gearheads and their souped-up cars. Look, that's nice, I'm happy for you. I just want a car that is dsafe, runs well, and won't breakdown. I don't give a shit about how much torque the engine has, or how quickly it can get to 60.
Different needs! Get it?
I don't think its arrogance so much as getting pissed off by massive repetitive doses of sound-bites, Apple duckspeak, bragging or general ignorance. For instance this is illustrated in the fact that you'll say that Mac is the better computer in some areas compared to a PC. Do you know what PC stands for? Personal Computer. Do you know what a Mac is? Its a personal computer. There might have been more of a difference back when Apple used their own, different, hardware inside of their computers, but now they are identical. Your repetition of this is merely repeating a marketing idea by Apple to differentiate themselves from other computer manufacturers. Do you know how dumb you'd come across if you said, and bragged that you don't use a PC, you use a Dell (running Linux)? Because that's exactly the situation here.
Besides that the "better" part is the result of a massive amount of control over the user's computer experience. Its why Apple and Jobs aren't too keen about running Windows on Mac hardware, or running the Mac OS on other machines. Its also why they want you to have it fixed or upgraded at a Genius Bar instead of at home.
The "better" experience you get from a Mac is one of a carefully crafted and controlled computing environment that results from not allowing you or the computer to do things that would ruin this experience. Removing these controls can bring it down like Jenga blocks.
. . .
Yet a) everybody knows what we're talking about and b) most of us used the same language. Or maybe I should have used some dumbass circumlocution so you wouldn't get all snotty and superior with me? Could be!
Yup.Besides that the "better" part is the result of a massive amount of control over the user's computer experience. Its why Apple and Jobs aren't too keen about running Windows on Mac hardware, or running the Mac OS on other machines. Its also why they want you to have it fixed or upgraded at a Genius Bar instead of at home.
I have no doubt. It was foolish of me to use the word "better," since clearly that isn't sufficient for the selective hair-splitters. How about this: Macs have fewer technical troubles (both software and hardware) and better customer service than most of their competitors. That is demonstrably true.The "better" experience you get from a Mac is one of a carefully crafted and controlled computing environment that results from not allowing you or the computer to do things that would ruin this experience. Removing these controls can bring it down like Jenga blocks.
You're not credible here because you keep lumping us together. I'm less of a Mac fanboy than you are a Windows fanboy using that logic.
Sorry, I'm quite agnostic. Debian on my webserver, Gentoo on my router, Ubuntu on my Laptop, Windows 7 on my desktop plus a VM for various other OS. MacOS is left out because it's too expensive.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
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