What is it with British Prime ministers?

[Hazir]

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Every time a British PM comes back home from a EU summit he (regardless of party-affiliation) seems to have to claim some victory. The same happened this time after a EU summit that was actually mostly about an adjustment to EU monetary policies and the framework in which those policies would have to be enforced. In the margin of that meeting there was also some time reserved for the upcoming EU budget. After the EP and EC had demanded a 6% rise in the EU budget a bunch of governments made clear they thought that was a bad idea in a time that national budgets undergo fierce cuts. Probably most leaders who convened in Brussels were against going with the 6% demand. So it was sort of a foregone conclusion that the counter-offer of the Council would be significantly lower than that 6%. Even if the UK wouldn't have been amongst the countries being against a 6% raise, the Council probably would have come to the same conclusion.

Yet here we have it again; the PM comes back to London and claims to have won a victory. What is it with these people that they even claim issues on which there was concensus and hardly any debate, let alone fighting as a victory? To me it shows that English politicians really have got nobody to blame but themselves when it comes to the level of Euroscepticism in the UK.

The funny part of course is that where it really counted the UK's eurosceptic leader didn't 'win' at all, because it couldn't but agree to a change of the Lisbon Treaty in order for the EMU members to safeguard the euro. Which, as a matter of fact is something the UK isn't supposed to do unless 'powers are returned to London' in return.

[Dreadnaught]

What was agreed-to on the Euro that you think is such a loss/irony?

[LittleFuzzy]

article

Every time a British PM comes back home from a EU summit he (regardless of party-affiliation) seems to have to claim some victory.

Yet here we have it again; the PM comes back to London and claims to have won a victory. What is it with these people that they even claim issues on which there was concensus and hardly any debate, let alone fighting as a victory? To me it shows that English politicians really have got nobody to blame but themselves when it comes to the level of Euroscepticism in the UK.

The funny part of course is that where it really counted the UK's eurosceptic leader didn't 'win' at all, because it couldn't but agree to a change of the Lisbon Treaty in order for the EMU members to safeguard the euro. Which, as a matter of fact is something the UK isn't supposed to do unless 'powers are returned to London' in return.

"I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here."
"Your winnings, sir"
"Oh, thank you very much."

[Hazir]

What was agreed-to on the Euro that you think is such a loss/irony?

During the election the Tories were telling that they wouldn't agree to any more changes to the rules in the EU treaties that didn't include getting some powers back from Brussels. What they agreed to is changing the treaty of Lisbon in order to enable the EU to have this permanent emergency fund in case another Greek-type crisis occurs again.

A change of the treaty, without anything in return. Exactly what they promised never to accept again. And I can assure you that there will be no referendum on it either

Still that silly 'victory' claim again, this time though it was so flimsy even British newspapers looked through it. In the rest of Europe the budget was reported as if there was a conflict between the EC and the Council, not between Council-members. As was really the case.

[']['ear]

Is there a British version of "house n*****" that you could call him? You know, a really vicious bigoted slur that would make you feel better? [/sarcasm]

[Wraith]

Is there a British version of "house n*****" that you could call him? You know, a really vicious bigoted slur that would make you feel better? [/sarcasm]

<mod hat>
Please don't derail threads to drag this stuff around the forum.
</mod hat>

[']['ear]

Sorry, you're right, I shouldn't have dragged that into another thread.

[RandBlade]

Stop the press, politician does politics.

In other news, dog bites man.

[Hazir]

Stop the press, politician does politics.

In other news, dog bites man.

Come on, there is more to this. What's this obsession with claiming victory every time even when there wasn't really a fight like this time?

You don't see it in Paris, Berlin or any other capital city of the EU. Only in London it has to be about 'victory' or 'defeat' every single time.

[Timbuk2]

Small-island mentality.

Britain stopped Hitler at the channel after he'd swallowed up most of Europe. The British have to keep the Europeans out of Britain. And if Britain ventures into Europe, the Brits better damn well show them upstart Yurpeans what's what, what.

This mentality persists here in some quarters. It's rather amusing.

[Hazir]

Small-island mentality.

Britain stopped Hitler at the channel after he'd swallowed up most of Europe. The British have to keep the Europeans out of Britain. And if Britain ventures into Europe, the Brits better damn well show them upstart Yurpeans what's what, what.

This mentality persists here in some quarters. It's rather amusing.

But you see it with both Conservative and Labour.

[wiggin]

Stop the press, politician does politics.

In other news, dog bites man.

Agreed. Nothing to see here, move along.

Hazir - the reason why it happen more for the UK than other European countries on this issue is that it's a bigger political issue in the UK (and with the UK populace) than in most of the EU. I'm sure you can find similar hot-button issues in other countries that are invariably portrayed a certain way regardless of the actual result.

[Hazir]

Agreed. Nothing to see here, move along.

Hazir - the reason why it happen more for the UK than other European countries on this issue is that it's a bigger political issue in the UK (and with the UK populace) than in most of the EU. I'm sure you can find similar hot-button issues in other countries that are invariably portrayed a certain way regardless of the actual result.

Actually that is entirely untrue; the six percent bigger budget the EC and EP wanted was as controversial accross the continent as it was in the UK. Here in Holland the government vowed it would not accept the 6% demand and would have been in serious trouble if it had. In other countries a big rise in EU budget with national budgets being cut was a non-starter.

Still in none of the other countries the fact that the EC/EP didn't get it their way was presented as a 'national' victory over anybody at all. Which would have been real strange given that at the outset of that side-debate the UK, France, Germany, Spain and the Netherlands were nixing the EC/EP demands.

In other news, the real news so to say, people were muttering about Angela Merkel 'getting it her way' about the re-writing of the rulebook for the euro. That was actually what the summit really was about. So if there was any winner at all at that summit it certainly wasn't the British MP.

[wiggin]

Hazir - this particular debate wasn't the big issue, it's the large question of how eurosceptic the UK polity is. Compared to mainland Europe, the UK is very leery of the issue, and as such any dealings with pan-European groups are generally presented as a victory for the UK. Politics.

[Hazir]

Eh, it's the only thing the Brits ever talk about; the budget. They cut down entire forests to print the nonsense they think to know about that, but usually they don't know the first thing about it. Look at any discussion about it, there is always someone to bring up the fact that the accounts court won't sign off on the records and use this as proof that the 'faceless unelected bureaucrats in Brussels' can't be trusted with our money. Totally ignoring that the reason why the EU account won't be signed off because national governments do iffy things with their parts of the EU budget.

Anyway, this time it was especially silly (I think even the British media picked up on it this time); there was no victory to speak of. There was no real struggle either about the budget.

[wiggin]

Certainly all of the British media I saw painted it as a victory for Merkel. Doesn't change the reality of British politics. *shrugs*

[Hazir]

Certainly all of the British media I saw painted it as a victory for Merkel. Doesn't change the reality of British politics. *shrugs*

The summit, and she didn't claim it as such. She said something like that she was 'quite pleased with the outcome'. Very different than the British MP who didn't win anything calling the result of the budget pre-debate as a 'victory'.