I doubt the money is actually made with the tickets sold. Which makes me think; how the hell did Australia think it stood a chance? It's entirely in the wrong time zone.Originally Posted by Loki
Yeah, because Qatar is going to sell more tickets than America would.
Congratulations America
American companies would also provide a far higher TV deal. Americans would always buy more merchandise. Let's be honest, the only criterion on which Qatar trumps America is being willing to give large bribes to FIFA officials.
Hope is the denial of reality
While I can somehow understand the Russia thing (the FIFA tries to promote new markets). The Qatar choice is ridiculous. And @Hazir, as the FIFA has the status of a non-profit organisation, how does business come into play? The literally don't have any shareholders.
Hopefully this whole farce will have some political consequences. But in the end, the FIFA will just move to some country like Qatar if it has to fear juristic consequences?
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
Of course the decision is money driven. It goes too far to call that bribing; very likely Qatar was so eager to get this tournament that it was willing to demand a smaller slice of the pie.
For football (aside from money) this was a horrible choice of course; the tournament is played during the hottest season down there. Even with airconditioned stadiums the condition of the players will be negatively influenced by outside temperatures up in the forties (C).
@Earthjoker; I think we both know that FIFA isn't really a 'non-profit' and hasn't been so for a long time.
Congratulations America
Of course I know that. That's way the status should be rescinded (I hope this is the correct legal term).
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
Can you believe the whining in the British media again? As if they had the god-given right to organise the 2018 worldcup and that it has been taken away from them. If you compare that with the reactions in the Dutch media (whatever you can find); there it's no so much moping about how unfair it all was but about how clearly FIFA wanted to take this into a new direction.
The British reaction is one that's like the loser of a beauty contest telling everybody she's still prettier than all the rest.
Congratulations America
But their free press is bothered a bit by arresting, beating up and/or murdering journalists..
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Did an Englishman rape your mother or something Hazir? It's not the media on this forum that is acting so personally to everything.
Except apparently FIFA have been saying that the British media had "killed" the bid - i.e. the England bid got next to no votes in order to punish England for our media daring to expose the rampant corruption in FIFA. Personally, I don't especially like football and could do without the world cup being here in 2018, so I'll shed no tears over England missing out but Loki is absolutely right that it's rather sad that the response here is mostly "the media killed the bid" not "FIFA is not only corrupt but petty, vindictive and afraid of scrutiny", and that certain sections of the public think that football is just so damn important that we should sacrifice freedom of speech and a free press just so we can host an ultimately meaningless tournament. Those of us who participate in other sports who might share the same facilities have probably encountered footballs entitlement complex directly or indirectly, but this is a bit of a joke. Certainly I would never have insisted we should muzzle the press just to host the 2012 Olympics. This is probably just the same phenomena you talk about in your first sentence see from the other side. I would rather FIFA had said they didn't give the English bid the time of day largely because of the English attitude to the sport.
In short,
- Fuck FIFA
- Fuck the FA
- Fuck football
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Well said. I hope the media continues full pelt investigating and reporting on corruption and let it be known by all and sundry that it's not sour grapes but just good, honest, high-quality journalism ... as was happening before the vote, no reason for it to stop now.
Had Panorama (BBC), The Times (News Corp[Murdoch]) etc all waited until after the vote it could have been dismissed as just sore losers, but its not and I'm proud of the fact that both are largest media organisations got involved in exposing this corruption despite pressure to brush it under the carpet.
Bunch of cry babies, you weren't the only ones that didn't get it. You also didn't lose to Qatar, you lost to a country that has a much better claim to getting the WC, and which has the ability to deliver. The fact that you lot thought you were the best option doesn't mean the rest of the world was thinking the same. There are a bunch of reasons why the UK didn't get the organisation, most of all that you didn't really convince enough people that it should go to the UK.
You Brits have got this tendency to place yourselves in the position of favorite over and over again, then get all upset when it turns out you weren't even close. Not just now, but also in South Africa.
Congratulations America
I dunno about 'high quality journalism', a lot of the English media has pretty low standards regarding, for example, accuracy and ethics (see: 'the dark arts'), but I'd rather almost any of the alternatives.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
That's it, Hazir, just keep on ignoring relevant facts because they don't suit your anglophobic agenda. No one on this forum thinks you're a one note joke or anything like that.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
It's always great to re-confirm your own convictions; FIFA has been exposed as corrupt (what does that even mean in the context of FIFA's executive committee, there are 22 guys who are not accountable that need to be wooed in order to get their votes) and it's even more corrupt now that it has shown itself hostile to poor England after brave aunty Beeb exposed their corruption. Much nobler way to loose than; 'they simply liked the other guys bettter'.
And really, of the 15 million the British bid spent only 3 went towards the technical bid, that means roughly 12 million going towards wining and dining 22 people and their immediate hanger ons. A bit late to discover the other side is not squeaky clean I say.
Congratulations America
Hazir, I want you to read this very slowly and carefully so you understand properly:
If FIFA had said the English media had nothing to do with the result and the bid was rejected simply because it wasn't good enough/others were better, then that would be one thing but we're hearing that members of the team had been explicitly told that the English media was what killed the bid
Let me repeat that, in case it didn't quite get through your anglophobia:
England received only two votes because of the investigations into FIFA corruption. England may well have lost anyway, but the fact that it received so few was entirely because FIFA didn't like the fact that someone had revealed to the world how corrupt it is. This reflects badly on FIFA.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Oh really? Would that be information from the same people who looked your delegation in the eye and told that their vote was certain? Maybe you should start to learn that what people say and what people think is not the same. England made the typical mistake of thinking itself the front runner when it clearly wasn't. Those reports most likely played a very minor role in the actual choice, though they may explain a bit the blunt humilation dished out.
That you could learn something from; the popularity of your country doesn't really amount to much. There are scores of people who do not like the UK for a whole plethora of reasons. Being oblivious to that simple fact will cause you to overestimate your chances.
Of course, this hard truth is just me being anti-british, because really all the world loves you so much that everybody thinks you should have gotten the WC. Except then that hardly anybody cared about you at all.
Congratulations America
Your explanation for what happened is that everyone hates usfor not joining the Euro, for a "whole plethora of reasons"? This is a better explanation for what happened than a backlash against the corruption allegations how? Conceded that testimony from the various delegates isn't the most reliable source of information in the world, but it's better than no information at all which is what you're basing your explanation on. Plus, these people really have no motive to lie like this, as the lie reflects badly on them*. They could simply have said that they thought Russia had a better bid. We also have reports that Sepp Blatter spoke to the committee just before they voted about, quote, the "evil of the media". I'm sure that had nothing to do with it either.
Another thing you are either deliberately ignoring or are simply too wrapped up on your anglophobia to get your head around: I am not saying that England necessarily should have won the bid. I don't know if they had a good bid or not, because I hadn't been paying attention to the story. Obviously, the team said they had one, but then they aways say that (another hilarious thing: you seem to be taking boilerplate media soundbites as a shining example of English arrogance and entitlement - very telling) but I've no idea if that's true**. What I'm saying is that whether England, or whoever, won or lost, they shouldn't have lost because of what the media did or did not say or publish. If anything, they should be thanking the Times and BBC for exposing those two individuals, if the organization had any integrity at all.
Incidentally, loved the completely apropos of nothing rant against the British, when there is absolutely nothing in this situation which is specific or particular to England. It could easily have been any other of the European bidders if the journalists running the investigations had happened to have been of another nationality, but since it's England we must utterly dismiss the explanation of FIFA vindictiveness and instead England must shut up and take it's medicine because, apparently, everyone else in the world hates England because of <bullshit>. You're a sad, bitter individual, Hazir. I suppose we should simply be grateful your racism is directed against a relatively privileged and powerful group which can't actually be harmed by it, rather than a genuinely vulnerable minority; this doesn't make your attitudes any less feeble intellectually, however, and you remain equally deserving of mockery for your mental shortcomings as other racists and idiots.
* we *can* agree that in an ideal world the contest would be decided on the merits of the bid rather than a childish popularity contest, or as part of an exercise in mutual back scratching?
** and I don't want to hear your assessment either of it because a) I don't care and b) your assessment will likely be bullshit.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
1. I doubt anybody at FIFA cares whether or not you are in the euro. There are however a lot of reasons for entire nations to not think of the English as a nice friendly lot good at organising international events. For a lot of people you're the country that meddled in their affairs. For other countries you're the country that sticks its nose and guns in places where they think those have no place. For other countries you're just the annoying bunch that come tell everybody how to do their job. If you take some time to think you can problably understand that your country was never in a position to claim friendly votes from anybody.
2. as for the bid itself; technically the UK had a decent bid, but the decision is not just taken on technical considerations, if you arrogantly forget that simple fact you're in for nasty surprises in the end (as has been proven)
3. The UK was most likely never a frontrunner; the relative advantages of being ready now don't mean too much if you have to be ready in 2018. The fact that the UK is going to severely cut public spending also doesn't look too appealing compared to Russia always having the deep pockets of Gazprom available for necessary funds to make good on its promises. Russia has never hosted a WorldCup, the UK has, which gave Russia an advantage on the professed policies of FIFA. Some stabs about corruption probably cost you some votes but you were never going to win in the first place.
And now we have this ridiculous phenomenon of the entire press of the nation huffing and puffing how they lost because they were somehow more honorable and that some corrupt foreigners for no other reason than being called out trashed your superior candidacy. It's the behaviour of a sore loser and it's typical for the aftermath of yet another british bubble popped. Spain, Portugal, Holland and Belgium lost to Russia as well. Nobody is blind to the fact that oil money talks in FIFA, but only the Brits still feel that they should have won anyway.
Congratulations America
Uniquely so in world (and current) history, too. And doubly unique amongst the bidders for the 2018 world cup
(they all have rich and sordid colonial histories, you retard)
Equally unique!For other countries you're the country that sticks its nose and guns in places where they think those have no place.
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Do countries have 'jobs'?For other countries you're just the annoying bunch that come tell everybody how to do their job.
What the hell does this mean? We shouldn't have expected anyone to vote for us, because we're English?If you take some time to think you can problably understand that your country was never in a position to claim friendly votes from anybody.
How does one "arrogantly" forget something?2. as for the bid itself; technically the UK had a decent bid, but the decision is not just taken on technical considerations, if you arrogantly forget that simple fact you're in for nasty surprises in the end (as has been proven)
Like I've said four times now, the objection isn't that England lost the bid, but that it lost the bid because of the media investigations into corruption and this has more or less been outright said by FIFA - likely in an attempt to discourage further investigations.3. The UK was most likely never a frontrunner; the relative advantages of being ready now don't mean too much if you have to be ready in 2018. The fact that the UK is going to severely cut public spending also doesn't look too appealing compared to Russia always having the deep pockets of Gazprom available for necessary funds to make good on its promises. Russia has never hosted a WorldCup, the UK has, which gave Russia an advantage on the professed policies of FIFA. Some stabs about corruption probably cost you some votes but you were never going to win in the first place.
A ridiculously unfair reading of the situation, drawn simply from your own stupid prejudices and not form anything resembling reality. And, five times now, it's not the fact that England lost but the reason.And now we have this ridiculous phenomenon of the entire press of the nation huffing and puffing how they lost because they were somehow more honorable and that some corrupt foreigners for no other reason than being called out trashed your superior candidacy. It's the behaviour of a sore loser and it's typical for the aftermath of yet another british bubble popped. Spain, Portugal, Holland and Belgium lost to Russia as well. Nobody is blind to the fact that oil money talks in FIFA, but only the Brits still feel that they should have won anyway.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Try to get this into your thick skull; England didn't win because 20 out of 22 votes went to other candidates, England would never have won. The biggest difference that those press reports made (if any) was that you got kicked out in the first round.
You and your country's press are just showing yourselves to be bad losers. You are not some knights in shining armour, you are whiners who can't stand that the rest of the world won't see how wonderful you really are.
Congratulations America
Prove it.
If I made the forum rules, broken record tactics would result in an infraction. Sixth time: it's not about the fact of the loss, but the reason for it.You and your country's press are just showing yourselves to be bad losers. You are not some knights in shining armour, you are whiners who can't stand that the rest of the world won't see how wonderful you really are.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Check the media about the number of requests for the bid book.
The way you lost was; there was no majority for your bid. There never was anything close to a majority, there was nothing to lose for you, it was Russia to lose from the outset.
On a sidenote; how exactly did the UK to have secured 7 votes ahead of the vote? They paid so much to get these guys happy that they thought they'd bought their votes?
Bunch of sore loser wankers.
Congratulations America
Ignoring the obsessive over there, it seems Sebb Blatter spoke to the delegates immediately before the vote warning of the "dangers of the media". About as subtle as a kick in the gonads.
Now it's the "incoherent and vague, refusing to directly address points" phase of the Hazir Meltdown Process.
Edit: p.s. it's not about the fact that we lost, but the reason for the loss. < number 7
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
You lost because virtually nobody wanted you to host. Not for some other noble reason.
In todays Guardian, Graham Taylor;
"England have had no influence. We are considered to be arrogant and know-alls."
Congratulations America
Prove it.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Prove it? You got 2 votes, one of which was cast by an Englishman. That's proof enough for any sane person.
Congratulations America
Proof of what though? Proof we didn't win - of course. Proof of why - no it's not.
There is also zero proof for this claim it was because of some BBC program. You wouldn't have won it anyway. Only because you think you're somehow more worthy of consideration you come up with silly ideas about being taken down for being the best and the most honest.
You didn't get it because Russia was the obvious winner from the outset. It's just a matter of sour grapes that you can't accept that they simply were the better candidate.
Congratulations America
No, there is proof: several statements by people who should know that the bid was killed by the media. This proof is not definitive, but since you have nothing at all to backup your declaration that the England bid was doomed from the beginning, it wins. You can't ignore facts even if ignoring them helps you make the British look bad.
8th time: it is not sour grapes, because the complaint isn't the fact that England lost - I didn't even particularly want them to get it for christsakes - but the fact that the bid was killed because the media outed some corrupt officials which irks me- I just dislike organizations which think they're above the law, which FIFA clearly does.
I do realize you think you can just keep repeating 'sour grapes' over and over again until everyone gets bored with you and wanders off, which you will probably then count as some kind of 'victory' in your rather sad little world, so let me tell you that I'm easily stubborn enough to keep on telling you why and how it is not sour grapes (notice that we never saw anything like this when the bid for 2002 went nowhere) until you either admit it isn't or have the common decency to actually address the arguments put before you.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
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