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Thread: Cars and Kids

  1. #1

    Default Cars and Kids

    Carmakers' next problem: Generation Y

    People in their teens and twenties are more interested in gadgets than cars

    Marc Piscotty for msnbc.com


    Meet Natalie McVeigh, the auto industry’s latest headache.

    At 25 years old, McVeigh lives in Denver and has two good jobs, as a research analyst and an adjunct professor of philosophy. What she doesn’t have — or want — is a car.

    A confluence of events — environmental worries, a preference for gadgets over wheels and the yearslong economic doldrums — is pushing some teens and twentysomethings to opt out of what has traditionally been considered an American rite of passage: Owning a car.

    “There’s kind of almost every force working against the young driver right now,” said Karl Brauer, senior analyst and editor-at-large at Edmunds.com, an automotive research website.

    That could be a problem for automakers, which are still reeling from the Great Recession that sorely damaged their industry. Now, they may find that their youngest generation of potential customers will either purchase fewer cars, put off buying cars until later in life — or they won’t end up buying cars at all.

    “That’s definitely a concern,” said George Peterson, president of AutoPacific, an automotive market research firm that has been tracking young car buyers for 20 years. “They are not as engaged with cars and trucks as Gen X or Boomers before them.”

    The percentage of new cars sold to 21- to 34-year-olds hit a high of nearly 38 percent in 1985 but stands at around 27 percent today, according to CNW research. Over that same period, the percentage of new car buyers who are 55 or older has generally been trending up, according to the vehicle research group.

    The prognosis isn't necessarily encouraging, either. In 2008, 82 percent of 20- to 24-year-olds had their driver’s license, according to the Federal Highway Administration. Although that’s gone up a tiny bit in the past few years, it’s down from more than 87 percent in 1994.

    People in their late twenties and early thirties are also slightly less likely to have a driver’s license than in 1994, and it appears that more people are at least delaying getting their license. Just 31 percent of 16-year-olds had their license in 2008, down from about 42 percent in 1994, according to government data.

    Brauer said one issue is economic: A combination of high unemployment among young people and economic troubles for their parents is making it harder for younger people to afford to drive.

    But there are also other, longer-term issues at work, he said.

    For one thing, many young consumers care more about new technologies, such as the latest phone, than about the latest car.

    That may be for good reason — thanks to the Internet and social media, more people can connect with friends, work or even hand in schoolwork without ever leaving the house, potentially making them less dependent on cars but more dependent on gadgets.

    Brauer said this generation also is thinking more than any other about the repercussions of driving, both in terms of the environment and our dependence on oil.

    “They don’t just wholeheartedly see a car as this cool thing to go get,” he said. “There’s actually some caveats.”

    ‘I didn’t need it’
    McVeigh didn’t make a conscious plan not to drive. After living overseas as a teenager, she went to college in a small town and then moved to bigger cities for graduate school and work.

    At first, a car seemed both prohibitively expensive and unnecessary, because she could walk or take public transportation. Then, she just decided she didn’t want one.

    “I just kind of came to the realization that I didn’t need it,” she said.

    McVeigh uses public transportation to get to work and likes that she can spend her commute time reading or grading papers.

    McVeigh also likes getting the extra exercise when she chooses to walk to work or to the grocery store, and is happy to be saving money and not adding any more pollution to the planet.

    Although she knows other people in big East Coast cities who don’t have cars, McVeigh said she remains unusual in Denver.

    “It’s still a Western town and everyone has a car,” she said. “Everyone just thinks it’s bizarre that I don’t have a car.”
    But for now, she’s happy with her decision. The only time not having a car is really inconvenient is when she wants to visit her sister in the mountain town of Breckenridge, about 80 miles away, or to go somewhere with her young nieces who live there.

    Gadgets and gas mileage
    Brauer, the Edmunds.com analyst, says carmakers are thinking about what it will take to get people like McVeigh into the showroom.

    Many analysts credit Ford with doing the best job so far. The company recently released a new version of the Fiesta that has plenty to appeal to Generation Y: A sticker price starting at $13,320, combined gas mileage of around 33 miles per gallon and, perhaps most important, up-to-date technology for things like voice-activated music search and audible text messages.

    Peterson, of AutoPacific, said Hyundai and Kia also are starting to offer appealing gadgetry for young car buyers, while Chrysler, General Motors, Toyota and Honda are still playing catch-up.

    But will incorporating such functions be enough to persuade a young person who is on the fence to take on car payments and associated costs?

    ‘I was afraid I would get laid off again’
    The weak economy and cost of car ownership is what pushed Kathryn Goffredi, 24, to give up her driving habit.
    Like many suburban American teens, Goffredi got a license and a car at age 16. She drove regularly in high school but not college.

    After college, she worked in the Washington, D.C. suburbs. She was considering replacing her high school car when she was laid off in January. One of her first thoughts was, ‘Well, thank God I didn’t buy that car.”
    Even now that she has a new job doing marketing for nonprofits, Goffredi has no plans to buy a car and has left the old car for her brother to use.

    Because she lives and works in the nation's capital, she says it would be cost-prohibitive to drive to work, and not worth paying for a car she only drove a couple times a week. The uncertain economy also left her nervous about taking the plunge.

    “I was afraid I would get laid off again, you know, and I would buy this car and work for three or four months and then lose my job again and then be stuck with these car payments,” she said.

    One big question for carmakers — and these young not-drivers — is how far public transportation will take them. Americans can get by fairly well in large cities, where buses and subways can be combined with cabs and car loan services like Zipcar. But it’s a tougher slog in parts of the country better known for long stretches of highways than gleaming rail lines.

    Dave Cole, chairman emeritus of the Center for Automotive Research, said Generation Y may never be as excited about things like horsepower and styling as generations past. But he thinks that as this generation gets older and starts buying homes and having kids, they’ll eventually buy a car, out of necessity if nothing else.

    “The dependence on personal transportation in this country, outside of major urban areas, is still pretty profound, so there’s really no alternative,” he said.

    Although Goffredi is happy with her decision not to own a car for now, she says she could definitely see herself buying a car in the future if she got a job that was far away, or had kids.

    But right now she has other priorities for her extra cash.

    “You have all this money, you know, and you decide you could put it all toward the car or you can put it toward other things like clothes, or your social life,” she said.

    Need something to do on the bus? Take a break and follow me on Twitter @ alinnmsnbc
    Funny last line, eh. But I bolded the really crappy part: No alternative.

  2. #2
    Guess I missed this bus. I'm 26 and love to drive, I almost had a Saturn shipped from a different dealership to make sure I could get the strongest engine I could in the frame I wanted (dealership I was at caved instead, gave me the engine I wanted with the extras I didn't want to pay for, for free). Give me some twists and turns and I'll abuse the hell out of my tires, being able to do that down BayShore at night is one of the many reasons I gave up riding the bus. I scare the crap out of Brandy every time we drive through Georgia's mountains.

    Styling is important, but right now the auto industry is at a crossroads, there is huge support for throwbacks like the Challenger, and for new flowing designs, like the Genesis. BMW also greenlighted this electric concept for production, which could really push car styling into the future.

    Its not like automakers are sleeping on this either. Sync is big, really big, its raised Ford's average transaction several thousand dollars, and their marketing campaign right now is focusing on how the Focus and Fiesta have more technology and gadgets than most luxury cars.



    -------------
    On a slight tangent, I think technology and gadgets are causing our generation of 20 somethings to grow up and mature at a slower pace when compared to their parents. Our parents had to strike out on (almost) their own after highschool, or college if they were lucky. That social network that schooling provides simply dissappears once you're out of a forced education environment. A car was a big part of that maturity step on getting out in the world. It opened you up to new locations, new events, and new opportunities. Digital social networking makes it so now new graduates never lose that safety network, and in general, technology has made it so that people don't have to risk leaving their house/neighborhood to experience what they are interested in or curious about.
    My mom knows this county like the back of her hand, we would drive an hour to some BFE mall in a different city just to get out and experience a new location. I could say the same for myself, by limited to just Tampa. Now however, the current highschool and college generation, they don't know where anything is beyond the closest location
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 11-04-2010 at 01:30 PM.

  3. #3
    I agree with OG. I admit until I got into college and was a commuter I couldn't tell you how to get around my region. Even though we took long drives everywhere as a kid, until I had a car and learned the roads I didn't know about half of the places to visit that I do now.

    Another issue is cars are damn expensive. And aren't built to last like they once were, so buying used makes people squeamish. Everyone wants new with warranties. Not everyone have $20 grand or more to drop on a car either. Or the credit line for it.

    I wonder if anyone would be caught dead in my old 84 Toyota Corolla nowadays. It finally died in 2006 I think (I had sold it to a guy who wanted to fix it up for $100 back in 2001 so can't remember exactly when he said it died)

    If you live in an area like I do, having no car means no job. Sure you can take the bus if you get up two hours early to get to your McDonald's job on time.

  4. #4
    Give me a car that runs well and for a long time. IMO the rest is fluff for the shallow.

  5. #5
    I am 30 now and still don't own my own car. But I can get one if I need to.

  6. #6
    I could think of far better things to spend my limited amount of money than on a car. I think a very conservative cost of a car is $5000 a year (insurance, gas, repairs, and price of car/years it can be used). Assuming a $25 cost for a taxi (in one direction), I can take 100 round-trip taxi rides in a year and spend the same amount as I would on a car. Needless to say, I don't use the taxi 100 times in a year. I also don't have to worry about it breaking down, being broken into, spending time getting repairs, etc. Frankly, I can think of no reason to own a car (unless you have a huge family) in a city with a decent public transportation system.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #7
    $25 one way wouldn't get you 10 miles down here. Which goes back into our current/next generation not understanding, or not caring, what exists beyond their immediate vicinity.

    Valid public transportation is what GGT pointed out, and its sadly not an option in far to much of the US. Dread's made threads on the shittier service and raising prices, and I've gone into central Florida's problems as well

    Technology has made that so that our 20 somethings don't need their own wheels for a sense of freedom, expansion, and exploration. The internet gives them all that, even if its not a direct match. I highly doubt public transportation is going to change that.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 11-04-2010 at 05:51 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    $25 one way wouldn't get you 10 miles down here. Which goes back into our current/next generation not understanding, or not caring, what exists beyond their immediate vicinity.

    Valid public transportation is what GGT pointed out, and its sadly not an option in far to much of the US. Dread's made threads on the shittier service and raising prices, and I've gone into central Florida's problems as well

    Technology has made that so that our 20 somethings don't need their own wheels for a sense of freedom, expansion, and exploration. The internet gives them all that, even if its not a direct match. I highly doubt public transportation is going to change that.
    I could fly from Nowhere, Illinois to NYC for $230, which is not much more than what you'd spend on gas/likely repairs to get there. Except you're also paying insurance, and paying for gas and repairs when you're not going far outside out of your hometown. I could also fly from here to London for about $700. Your car won't help do that at all, will it? So sure, if you like spending most of your time about 50-100 miles from where you live, a car might make sense. If you don't travel as much or travel much more, a car is a giant waste of money.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I could fly from Nowhere, Illinois to NYC for $230, which is not much more than what you'd spend on gas/likely repairs to get there. Except you're also paying insurance, and paying for gas and repairs when you're not going far outside out of your hometown. I could also fly from here to London for about $700. Your car won't help do that at all, will it? So sure, if you like spending most of your time about 50-100 miles from where you live, a car might make sense. If you don't travel as much or travel much more, a car is a giant waste of money.
    Yes Loki, we understand there are extremes to traveling, just like your plane not being able to take you to the moon
    I don't know about 100 miles, I've found the sweet spot to be a 30-40 mile radius. Its usually around a single gallon of gas that the world really opens up to allow people experiences that don't involve their own bedroom or neighborhood.

    I know there are some pretty kickass airports around the world, but I didn't know they were so good that I should fly to them and not expect to leave the terminal.


    -----
    I'm not trying to justify or promote a vehicle as a necessity, but thus far your arguments againist one have been crap.
    I've been trying to make the connection that the same sense of freedom (and networking) that a vehicle used to provide, is now being provided by the internet and the gadgets that use it. The article mentions the 2, cars and gadgets, but doesn't go into why, and I felt that was important to explore.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 11-04-2010 at 06:24 PM.

  10. #10
    I can't imagine how you guys can't have a car... I have places to go, people to see a mud to get dirty in and I couldn't live without a truck

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    I don't know about 100 miles, I've found the sweet spot to be a 30-40 mile radius. Its usually around a single gallon of gas that the world really opens up to allow people experiences that don't involve their own bedroom or neighborhood.
    I don't know about you, but my concept of the outside world doesn't start 30-40 miles from my house.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Knux897 View Post
    I can't imagine how you guys can't have a car... I have places to go, people to see a mud to get dirty in and I couldn't live without a truck
    There is literally no place in this country you can't reach with public transportation. But of course a car is handy now and than, but you can have car sharing for that.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't know about you, but my concept of the outside world doesn't start 30-40 miles from my house.
    I knew there was a reason I avoided using that term!
    There is no denying that neighborhoods/cities can be vastly different from each other, and that they also hold a sphere of influence over each other. Like I said, I've noticed that after 30 miles or so the environment really starts to change. Milage may vary. As I've already outlined, I'm speaking of experiences that go beyond the immediate vicinity of first available mall or McDonalds, which is currently the limit a lot of students seem comfortable with; and that seems a lot smaller than what the previous generation or 20 somethings is currently comfortable with.

  14. #14
    Spin it let's begin it. Angel_Mapper's Avatar
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    I didn't even have a license until three years ago. I was in the Navy right after high school, then I worked in the Bay Area, the hell does anyone need a car there for? After that I worked from home for a few years. I finally got a license and a car when I moved up to Oregon to work there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    On a slight tangent, I think technology and gadgets are causing our generation of 20 somethings to grow up and mature at a slower pace when compared to their parents. Our parents had to strike out on (almost) their own after highschool, or college if they were lucky. That social network that schooling provides simply dissappears once you're out of a forced education environment. A car was a big part of that maturity step on getting out in the world. It opened you up to new locations, new events, and new opportunities. Digital social networking makes it so now new graduates never lose that safety network, and in general, technology has made it so that people don't have to risk leaving their house/neighborhood to experience what they are interested in or curious about.
    My mom knows this county like the back of her hand, we would drive an hour to some BFE mall in a different city just to get out and experience a new location. I could say the same for myself, by limited to just Tampa. Now however, the current highschool and college generation, they don't know where anything is beyond the closest location
    Damn kids and your hula hoops and Pac-Man video games!
    Angel Mapper - Prometheus

    To have said goodbye to things!

  15. #15
    I guess the usefulness to dollar value really depends on what you plan on doing with a car, where you live, how often you plan on using it, and what kind you get, along with the kind of driver you are.
    . . .

  16. #16
    If you live somewhere like I do, I can get to the beach in 25 min in a car, or the Blue Ridge Parkway in 3 hours. I can drive on day trips completely on a whim (before the baby came); just fill up with gas and go! There really is no way for my lifestyle to work with no car.

    Flying would be much more expensive and time consuming, and you'd still need some way to get around. There have only been a handful of vacations I've been on where a car wasn't needed.

    Me, I like to have a car to get from point A to B quickly, without having to wait for public transport. I can buy two weeks worth of groceries in a trip too

    If you live in a metro area where everythng you need is in a 3 mile radius, I understand why having a car would be foolish.

  17. #17
    Just Floatin... termite's Avatar
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    My son is 16, just got his first car. He still has the gadget obsession of his peers, but he is also in a band - try carting all your amps, guitars, drumkits and keyboards around on the fucking bus - he needed a car.
    Such is Life...

  18. #18
    Good luck with your young driver, termite!

    I'd say the US has seen kids and cars as a rite of passage, a part of maturation. Being responsible for a moving mass of vehicle that carries huge responsibility, safety for others, following road rules and laws (including ones we don't like or find sensible), and taking care of a big machine's maintenance.

    Plus the freeeeedom feeling of being On The Road without parents, teachers or adults telling them what to do, literally being in the driver's seat.

  19. #19
    I'm not sure I buy the premise that today's "youths" would rather invest in a phone to social network rather than save up for a car to see people in person.

    I think this trend is probably more reflective of declining youth unemployment:


  20. #20
    But this article is focusing on the 21-34 year olds...

  21. #21
    Alot of them are unemployed too, living with their parents and whatnot. They borrow Mommy's car.

  22. #22
    A lot of every age segment is unemployed, but that hasn't stopped an auto industry rebound when compared to last year and the year before.

  23. #23
    That's true. I haven't really paid attention; is it having anything to do with people trading in their SUVs for more gas efficient models? It's hard for me to tell in my particular area because trucks and SUVs seem popular still.

  24. #24
    The average length of ownership has continued to increase, in fact this year had its largest gap since they started polling, up 14% to about ~64 months.
    $4 gas and Cash for Clunkers had short term effects, but I haven't sen anythng to show how either have altered long term shopping trends. SUVs are still huge sellers, the new Grand Cherokee pushed Jeep into triple digit % gains last month compared to a year prior. Selling ~13,000 new units compared to ~3,000 last year (for just that model).

  25. #25
    Cars are too expensive for young drivers. Even used cars. The days of finding a reliable beater for $500-$800 are pretty much over.

  26. #26
    The article is more about youth car ownership and what it means for the future --*the industry can still of course have healthy growth for the time being, it's just a long term concern floating around.

    Plus the US auto companies hit rock bottom in many respects, so they have had no where to go but up.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    I don't even have a driver's license (yet). Anything within ~ 10 miles i go by bicycle, anything else by public transport. Public transportation tends to be a bit slower, but because I am a student it's free on weekdays and 40% off on weekends, making it very attractive. Only times we actually need a car is for band related stuff, because we have to get our instrumentts and amps around.

    I think only two or three of my friends have a car, and they share them with others and still use public transoprtation a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    There is literally no place in this country you can't reach with public transportation. But of course a car is handy now and than, but you can have car sharing for that.
    Yeah same here, youc an get everywhere. Just not at any time, which can lead to annoying things (e.g. I once spent a night on a train station because I missed my last connection, and had to spend the night at my ex after she dumped me because the last bus was already gone...).
    And of course delays can be annoying, but that's rarely more than half an hour and you get refunds for it. And at least you don't have traffic jams, and no worries about parking spaces
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    The article is more about youth car ownership and what it means for the future --*the industry can still of course have healthy growth for the time being, it's just a long term concern floating around.
    How are you defining youth?
    Plus the US auto companies hit rock bottom in many respects, so they have had no where to go but up.
    Some aspects did, some aspects didn't. Ford, Toyota, Honda may have been affected by the economy's downturn in general, but are doing just as well now, or insanely better (Ford [but they had been planning for this for years]), as they were before the shit hit the fan. In fact, Ford and Hyundai have been making the most gains, and they are the ones most focusing on the age group this article is focusing on. In fact their most popular non-truck offerings are the Mustang and Genesis Coupe, muscle/sports cars with huge tuner potential; the cars this article claims this age groups cares the least about.

  29. #29
    I'd say 18-25, roughly. I mean this is all speculative.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    I guess the usefulness to dollar value really depends on what you plan on doing with a car, where you live, how often you plan on using it, and what kind you get, along with the kind of driver you are.
    In terms of cost and returns, cars as used by the average American are the most expensive items in our lives by a HUGE margin (homes, after all, appreciate, while cars rapidly do the opposite). In that context, the way we use cars is highly illogical. If not for my health problems, we'd be a one car family and I'd bike/bus to work, because I loathe the waste of cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by termite View Post
    My son is 16, just got his first car. He still has the gadget obsession of his peers, but he is also in a band - try carting all your amps, guitars, drumkits and keyboards around on the fucking bus - he needed a car.
    When I was in a band we managed with two small hatchbacks (essentially drums in one, everything else in the other). But a good van is really what you need for a band.

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