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Thread: Google Maps embroiled in Central America border dispute

  1. #1

    Default Google Maps embroiled in Central America border dispute

    Google Maps embroiled in Central America border dispute
    (AFP) – 1 day ago

    NEW YORK — Costa Rica on Saturday stepped up pressure on international mediators to engage in its territory dispute with Nicaragua, after Google Maps was cited in an incident that saw the neighboring countries dispatch forces to their joint border.

    The Internet search giant joined the fray after a Nicaraguan commander cited Google's version of the border map in an interview with Costa Rican newspaper La Nacion to justify a raid on a disputed border area.

    The area is hotly disputed by the two neighbors, and Costa Rica has asked the Organization of American States (OAS) to investigate the alleged violations of its territory. OAS Secretary General Jose Manuel Insulza is touring both countries in a bid to mediate the dispute.

    On Saturday, Costa Rican President Laura Chinchilla said she was prepared to take the dispute to the UN Security Council if the OAS cannot find a solution.

    "Costa Rica is seeing its dignity smeared and there is a sense of great national urgency" to resolve this problem, Chinchilla said after meeting Insulza.

    A discussion with US State Department officials led Google to conclude that "there was indeed an error in the compilation of the source data, by up to 2.7 kilometers (1.7 miles)," for its map of the region, the company said Friday.

    Google geopolicy analyst Charlie Hale said in a Google blogpost that the State Department provided a corrected version and "we are now working to update our maps."

    The error lies in Google's depiction of the border in part of the Caribbean coast, near the San Juan River, the center of the dispute between San Jose and Managua that arose over Nicaragua's dredging of a river separating the two countries.

    Hale said Google's map of the area will be corrected to follow the demarcation laid out in an 1897 arbitration award of a previous border treaty.

    "The corrected version will follow the east bank of the San Juan River going northward, nearly to the Caribbean. It will then turn eastward and follow the southern shoreline of a large lagoon, Laguna los Portillos," he explained.

    The Nicaraguan government demanded that Google reject Costa Rica's request to change the depiction of the border, which it called "correct."

    "I officially request that (the border marking) not be modified," Foreign Minister Samuel Santos asked Google representative Jeffrey Hardy.

    Hale noted that cartography is a "complex undertaking," borders constantly change and "there are inevitably going to be errors" in the data.

    Costa Rica and Nicaragua have clashed since the 19th century over navigation rights for the San Juan River, which runs along half the frontier between the two countries.
    Nicaragua has denied sending troops over the border, as claimed by Costa Rica, which says Nicaraguan soldiers have crossed the waterway, pitched tents on a disputed island and raised their country's flag there.

    On Tuesday, Costa Rica, which does not have an army, dispatched fresh security forces to the border to bolster 150 agents sent earlier to the region, the scene of increasingly heated cross-border tensions since October 18.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...6db3707f9e.9f1
    Heh. Love how commercial tools have changed so fast that militaries are using them.

    Separately, the President of Costa Rica's last name in Chinchilla.

  2. #2
    Spin it let's begin it. Angel_Mapper's Avatar
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Heh. Love how commercial tools have changed so fast that militaries are using them.

    Separately, the President of Costa Rica's last name in Chinchilla.
    Uh... this isn't new. Google Maps has been used for years for targeting information from Gaza, and there's plenty of other political and military uses out there. Obviously the high end militaries have their own map systems that aren't subject to the vagaries (or inaccuracies) or Google or another company, but most small fry make do with cheap, good enough tools.

  4. #4
    I know about the Gaza stuff. Lots of debate over there about whether commercial satellites should be legally compelled to reduce the level of accuracy in the satellite maps.

    Just surprised that actual formal militaries do make due with the cheap-and-good-enough tools when there is a clear and ongoing border dispute like between Nicaragua and Costa Rica.

  5. #5
    What is it with South America and territory disputes?
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I know about the Gaza stuff. Lots of debate over there about whether commercial satellites should be legally compelled to reduce the level of accuracy in the satellite maps.

    Just surprised that actual formal militaries do make due with the cheap-and-good-enough tools when there is a clear and ongoing border dispute like between Nicaragua and Costa Rica.
    I think the dispute is a little overrated - the US has border disputes with Canada, too.

    Also, these are hardly formal militaries. Costa Rica officially doesn't have a military (though they have some paramilitary security forces) and Nicaragua's military is a pathetic shell of what it used to be in the Cold War era - 14k personnel, a nearly nonexistent air force and navy, and a handful of armored vehicles

    *shrugs* They're both very much small time and just used Google Maps as an excuse to make some noise over an old grievance.

    For that matter, it's not just the small fry who use commercial stuff - the US military has been using smartphones instead of its fantastically expensive Land Warrior system (now canceled) because while iPhones and Driods aren't quite as rugged as the military wants, they're cheap and pretty good for most things. The Pentagon has been running competitions for the best apps, mostly focusing on situational awareness and the like. COTS components are frequently being integrated into new US weapons systems, particularly aircraft. Both drones and some of the newer (and cheaper) recon aircraft rely heavily on off-the-shelf components.

    For relatively mature technologies, there's really no reason why even fancy-pants militaries should spend extra money for a gold-plated solution. Google Maps hardly has the accuracy or resolution (or timeliness) of the best stuff the military can put out, but it's certainly enough for most people.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    What is it with South America and territory disputes?
    South America actually has the fewest territorial disputes after Western Europe.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  8. #8
    What is it with the rest of the world and territory disputes?
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  9. #9
    More like "what is it with socialist Nicaragua and being an ***hole*.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  10. #10
    Isn't it in Central America anyway?
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    Isn't it in Central America anyway?
    Costa Rica is one of the most peaceful countries in the world. They even get rid of their military in the '40s.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  12. #12
    I know that. Still anything north of panama is central America to me.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    What is it with the rest of the world and territory disputes?
    Squiggly lines are confusing. As evidence for my hypothesis I offer the fact that some of the most conservative states in the United States, and thus those most likely to regard property or territory highly, have mostly straight borders in order to reduce confusion, and thus armed disputes...
    . . .

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    a small furry creature[/b]]"Costa Rica is seeing its dignity smeared and there is a sense of great national urgency" to resolve this problem
    Along the lines of Dread's introductory comments: first step towards restoring dignity is to change the name of the president....

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    More like "what is it with socialist Nicaragua and being an ***hole*.
    Because the US has never started an imbroglio to distract the public....

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    Because the US has never started an imbroglio to distract the public....
    With a country like Costa Rica? I somehow don't think the country would buy it. It's like us starting a dispute with Luxembourg.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    With a country like Costa Rica? I somehow don't think the country would buy it. It's like us starting a dispute with Luxembourg.
    Or Panama.
    Last edited by Crowheart; 11-08-2010 at 11:38 PM. Reason: wrong country

  17. #17
    Wow, I didn't know there were other disputes besides the Northwest Passage...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Wow, I didn't know there were other disputes besides the Northwest Passage...
    As of 2001, the US and Canada had 6 militarized disputes, all involving the use of force (though 0 casualties).
    Hope is the denial of reality

  19. #19
    Eh? Please explanify. And point to where I can help.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Eh? Please explanify. And point to where I can help.
    I believe the uses of force were over fishing rights on some disputed waters. They usually entail the US Coast Guard (or the Canuckian equivalent) shooting at the other country's fishermen, without attempting to hurt anyone. I could give you the days this happened. You'd have to look up the exact details of each incident.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  21. #21
    Can I shoot the fishermen if I saw them violating our maritime rights?

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Can I shoot the fishermen if I saw them violating our maritime rights?
    Only if you're in the Coast Guard. Should have volunteered for that instead of for the Fire Department.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #23
    We also have a number of territorial disputes, mostly having to do with the Arctic. IIRC we send a snarky letter to the Canadians every year saying we sent a sub under one of 'their' islands just to prove we don't think it's theirs.

  24. #24
    Our territorial claims on Canada (as of 2001):

    Machias Seal Island
    Tulsequah Chief Mine
    Juan de Fuca Strait
    Northwest Passage
    Beaufort Sea
    Machias Seal Island

    Canadian territorial claims on the US (as of 2001):

    Garrison Diversion
    Devil's Lake Diversion
    Dixon Entrance


  25. #25
    The fact that we could possibly invade Montreal again someday is thrilling.

  26. #26
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    The fact that we could possibly invade Montreal again someday is thrilling.
    Why? As you live in NYC, you already have easy access to strippers...
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    The fact that we could possibly invade Montreal again someday is thrilling.
    It might be awkward, though, since Canadian air defense is shared with NORAD and controlled from Cheyenne Mountain. I'm sure they'd be very polite about any ensuing confusion, though.

  28. #28
    There was a dispute over Wanda Fewka? Who knew?

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