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Thread: Thank you, Guvment

  1. #1

    Default Thank you, Guvment

    November 16, 2010
    Pretty Good for Government Work
    By WARREN E. BUFFETT
    Omaha

    DEAR Uncle Sam,

    My mother told me to send thank-you notes promptly. I’ve been remiss.

    Let me remind you why I’m writing. Just over two years ago, in September 2008, our country faced an economic meltdown. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the pillars that supported our mortgage system, had been forced into conservatorship. Several of our largest commercial banks were teetering. One of Wall Street’s giant investment banks had gone bankrupt, and the remaining three were poised to follow. A.I.G., the world’s most famous insurer, was at death’s door.

    Many of our largest industrial companies, dependent on commercial paper financing that had disappeared, were weeks away from exhausting their cash resources. Indeed, all of corporate America’s dominoes were lined up, ready to topple at lightning speed. My own company, Berkshire Hathaway, might have been the last to fall, but that distinction provided little solace.

    Nor was it just business that was in peril: 300 million Americans were in the domino line as well. Just days before, the jobs, income, 401(k)’s and money-market funds of these citizens had seemed secure. Then, virtually overnight, everything began to turn into pumpkins and mice. There was no hiding place. A destructive economic force unlike any seen for generations had been unleashed.

    Only one counterforce was available, and that was you, Uncle Sam. Yes, you are often clumsy, even inept. But when businesses and people worldwide race to get liquid, you are the only party with the resources to take the other side of the transaction. And when our citizens are losing trust by the hour in institutions they once revered, only you can restore calm.

    When the crisis struck, I felt you would understand the role you had to play. But you’ve never been known for speed, and in a meltdown minutes matter. I worried whether the barrage of shattering surprises would disorient you. You would have to improvise solutions on the run, stretch legal boundaries and avoid slowdowns, like Congressional hearings and studies. You would also need to get turf-conscious departments to work together in mounting your counterattack. The challenge was huge, and many people thought you were not up to it.

    Well, Uncle Sam, you delivered. People will second-guess your specific decisions; you can always count on that. But just as there is a fog of war, there is a fog of panic — and, overall, your actions were remarkably effective.

    I don’t know precisely how you orchestrated these. But I did have a pretty good seat as events unfolded, and I would like to commend a few of your troops. In the darkest of days, Ben Bernanke, Hank Paulson, Tim Geithner and Sheila Bair grasped the gravity of the situation and acted with courage and dispatch. And though I never voted for George W. Bush, I give him great credit for leading, even as Congress postured and squabbled.

    You have been criticized, Uncle Sam, for some of the earlier decisions that got us in this mess — most prominently, for not battling the rot building up in the housing market. But then few of your critics saw matters clearly either. In truth, almost all of the country became possessed by the idea that home prices could never fall significantly.

    That was a mass delusion, reinforced by rapidly rising prices that discredited the few skeptics who warned of trouble. Delusions, whether about tulips or Internet stocks, produce bubbles. And when bubbles pop, they can generate waves of trouble that hit shores far from their origin. This bubble was a doozy and its pop was felt around the world.

    So, again, Uncle Sam, thanks to you and your aides. Often you are wasteful, and sometimes you are bullying. On occasion, you are downright maddening. But in this extraordinary emergency, you came through — and the world would look far different now if you had not.

    Your grateful nephew,

    Warren

    Warren E. Buffett is the chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway, a diversified holding company.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/op...17buffett.html

  2. #2
    Getting tired of you posting stuff with no comments. I'm not going to assume every article you post is an exact reflection of your opinion.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Yes, this is a reflection of my view.
    Because Moral Hazards are awesome!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Yes, this is a reflection of my view.
    So I guess you don't get his sarcasim. Uncle Sam is all the poor (and I'm not talking finacially challenged) fools who paid (I mean, are expected to pay, since none of this has really been paid for yet) to keep an unsustainable system alive.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  6. #6
    I wonder if he is also willing to support measurements that would prevent such events in the future.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  7. #7
    I'm not sure he's being sarcastic...

  8. #8
    I doubt that actually, but I am not sure if he is true(= honest).
    Last edited by earthJoker; 11-18-2010 at 08:54 AM.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  9. #9
    The confusion this article sparks is nice
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  10. #10
    I think he's serious. There are tons of complaints to be made, but the simple reality is that our financial system was about to collapse and government interventions stabilized it. I would argue against most of the things that have happened since then, and I would argue the government had an important role in this failure. But they also did the "big stuff" we expect them to do in crises.

  11. #11

    Default This Is The Letter Warren Buffet Should Have Written to the US government

    DEAR Uncle Sam Sucker,

    I was about to send you a thank you note for bailing out the economy . . . but then some nice men dressed in Ninja outfits came in and shot me full of truth serum. That led me to make one more set of edits to my letter thanking you for saving the economy.

    It also helped me recall some things I seemed to have forgotten in my other public pronunciations about the bailouts.

    I suddenly recalled who it was who allowed the banks to run wild in the first place: You. Your behavior before, during and after the crisis was the epitome of a corrupt and irresponsible government. You rewarded incompetency, created moral hazard, punished the prudent, and engaged in the single biggest transfer of wealth from the citizenry of the United States to the Wall Street insiders who created the mess in the first place.
    Kudos.

    Before I get to the bailouts, I have to remind you that in:

    1999, you passed the Financial Services Modernization Act. This repealed Glass-Steagall, the law that had successfully kept main street banking safely separated from Wall Street for seven decades. Even the 1987 market crash had no impact on Main Street credit availability, thanks to Glass-Steagall.

    1997-2010, you allowed the Credit Rating Agencies to change their business model, from Investor pays to Underwriter pays — a business structure known as Payola. This change effectively allowed banks to purchase their AAA ratings, and was ignored by the SEC and other regulators.

    2000, you passed the Commodities Futures Modernization Act. It allowed the shadow banking industry to develop without any oversight by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the SEC, or the state insurance regulators. This led to rampant creation of credit-default swaps, CDOs, and other financial weapons of mass destruction — and the demise of AIG.

    2001-04, the Fed, under Alan Greenspan, irresponsibly dropped fund rates to 1%. This set off an inflationary spiral in housing, commodities, and in most assets priced in dollars or credit.

    1999-07, the Federal Reserve failed to use its supervisory and regulatory authority over banks, mortgage underwriters and other lenders, who abandoned such standards as employment history, income, down payments, credit rating, assets, property loan-to-value ratio and debt-servicing ability.

    2004, the SEC waived its leverage rules, allowing the 5 biggest Wall Street firms to go from 12 to 1 to 20, 30 and even 40 to 1. Ironically, this rule was called the Bear Stearns exemption.

    These actions and rule changes were requested by the banking industry. Rather than behave as adult supervision, you indulged the reckless kiddies, looking the other way as they acted out. You were the grand enabler of the finance sector’s misbehavior. Hence, you helped create the mess by allowing the banking sector to run roughshod over decades of successful constraints. (Kudos again on that).

    There were voices warning about the upcoming crisis, but you managed to turn a deaf ear to them: Warnings about subprime lending, problems with securitization, against the false claim that residential real estate never went down in value, or that the models forecasting VAR were wildly understating risk. An economy driven by growth dependent upon credit fueled consumption was unsustainable, and yet you encouraged that reckless credit consumption. The compensation schemes for Wall Street were hilariously short term (ignored by you); the crony capitalism of Boards of Directors that undercut market discipline was similarly ignored. You encouraged the hollowing out of the US economy, allowing it to become increasingly “Financialized” at the expense of industry and manufacturing. What was once a small but important part of the economy became dominant, yet unproductive, with your blessing.

    Bottom line: You were at a loss for understanding the many factors that led to the crisis in the first place.
    When the crisis struck, you did not seem to understand the role you should play. Instead of stepping up to halt the financialization, to unwind it, you gave away the shop. You failed to extract concessions from firms on the verge of bankruptcy. Your negotiating skills were embarrassing. In the face of meltdown, you panicked.

    You could have undone the decades of radical deregulation at that moment. You could have fired the incompetent management, wiped out the shareholders who invested in insolvent companies, gave the creditors and bond holders a major haircut for their foolish lending. Instead, you rewarded them for their gross incompetence.

    The solutions you ran with were ad hoc, poorly thought out, improvised. You crossed legal boundaries, putting the Fed in the position of vio0lating its charter and exceeding its mandates. You created a Moral Hazard, the impact of which may not be felt until decades in the future.

    Very few of your senior elected and appointed officials understood what was going on.

    Rather than offer an intelligent response to the crisis, you delivered brute force: Trillions of dollars were thrown at the problem, papering over its symptoms but not its underlying causes.

    Well, Uncle Sam, you delivered a motherload of cash. Considering the dollar sums involved, your actions were remarkably ineffective. What was left over afterwards was a wildly over-leveraged consumer whose credit limits had been reached; State and municipal budgets were heavily dependent upon that excess consumer spending, creating huge budget holes because of it. Net net: The resultant economy was in the worst recession since the Great Depression.

    As a student of the Great Depression, Ben Bernanke should have had the best grasp – but his bailout of Bear Stearns revealed him to be just another banker, intent on saving the banks – banking system be damned. To give you a clue of exactly how lost Hank Paulson was, he spent his time praying, and creating documents that exempt himself personally for liability. He’s from Goldman, so we know that “team first” ain’t exactly his style. Tim Geithner, who did such a stupendous job overseeing the banks in the first place, was n way over his head. And while I never voted for George W. Bush, I give him great credit for hiding under the bed and pretty much staying out of everyone else’s way. I would call him clueless, but that wouldn’t be fair to the legions of clueless around the world.

    Sheila Bair grasped the gravity of the situation earliest, and put numerous failed banks through the insolvency process. If we were smart, we would have allowed her to work her way through the entire finance sector, effecting a GM-like prepackaged bankruptcy for Citigroup, Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AIG, etc. It would have been painful as hell, but we would be much better off had we allowed her to tear the band aid off quickly. Instead, we are suffering through a death of a 1000 cuts, Japanese style.

    I would be remiss if I failed to mention my personal positions in this: I made a killing in Goldman Sachs and GE. My investments in Wells Fargo would have been a disaster if not for you. Don’t even get me started with me being the largest shareholder in Moody’s – that was some clusterf#@k. And considering all of the counter-parties that Berkshire Hathaway has, we risked being just another insolvent investment firm along with everyone else had nothing been done.

    So I must say thanks to you, Uncle Sam, and your aides. In this extraordinary emergency, you came through for me — and my world looks far different than if you had not.

    Your grateful but wide-eyed nephew,
    Warren


    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/this-...#ixzz15de8XksT

    How do I do the cross-out text?
    Last edited by GGT; 11-18-2010 at 12:16 PM.

  12. #12
    cross out
    Just quote to see how it's done.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    cross out
    Just quote to see how it's done.
    Thanks!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Because Moral Hazards are awesome!
    So are Depressions! Don't you understand the dangers of pure ideologies yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I think he's serious. There are tons of complaints to be made, but the simple reality is that our financial system was about to collapse and government interventions stabilized it. I would argue against most of the things that have happened since then, and I would argue the government had an important role in this failure. But they also did the "big stuff" we expect them to do in crises.


    This one action, TARP, saved W's legacy from the bottom decile, though if his disastrous tax cuts are extended, that legacy will be weakened. Too bad his own party hates him for it. Well, that's what happened to his daddy, too. The difference is that his daddy hadn't contributed to the problem, and his daddy had the stones to jeopardize his own re-election for the good of the country.

    I'll note that Buffett was also the guy that noted that his secretary pays a substantially higher percentage in taxes than he does. Technically he should thank the government, but more accurately he should thank the GOP.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I think he's serious.
    Really? Warren Buffett glorifying the abandonment of Capitalism and Free-markets? How many other Capitalists are now on the Socialist bandwagon?
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  16. #16
    Being, Warren Buffett is extraordinarily wealthy and also somewhat liberal. He also has a reputation for being an unusually straight shooter. He DOES advocate this position.

    This is the guy who, during the 2008 election, noted that his secretary paid a higher percentage of her salary in taxes than he did. He pointed this out for a reason. Do you understand it?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    Being, Warren Buffett is extraordinarily wealthy and also somewhat liberal. He also has a reputation for being an unusually straight shooter. He DOES advocate this position.

    This is the guy who, during the 2008 election, noted that his secretary paid a higher percentage of her salary in taxes than he did. He pointed this out for a reason. Do you understand it?
    I do. Which is why I find it hard to understand why the rest of you don't recognize the sarcasim injected in what he wrote. I find it incredulous that anyone actually believes that Buffet is impressed with a government that refused to regulate for 30+ years and waited until the very last second to react to the problems that lack of regulation created.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  18. #18
    He didn't talk about that. He talked about the government's actions probably saving our economy from a horrendous crash.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    He didn't talk about that. He talked about the government's actions probably saving our economy from a horrendous crash.
    Yes. Sarcasm includes glorifying something that shouldn't have been necessary.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  20. #20
    I don't think Buffet was being sarcastic, Being. It sounded to me like he was trying to be To be less sour toward the gummint, and encourage investors to get back in Game.

  21. #21
    Well, here is what he was saying in 2002 about government involvment in the crisis,

    But there is no central bank assigned to the job of preventing the dominoes toppling in insurance or derivatives. In these industries, firms that are fundamentally solid can become troubled simply because of the travails of other firms further down the chain.
    The derivatives genie is now well out of the bottle, and these instruments will almost certainly multiply in variety and number until some event makes their toxicity clear. Central banks and governments have so far found no effective way to control, or even monitor, the risks posed by these contracts. In my view, derivatives are financial weapons of mass destruction, carrying dangers that, while now latent, are potentially lethal.
    And again, sarcasm includes glorifying something that shouldn't have been necessary.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  22. #22
    Sorry, I don't see it.

  23. #23
    Yeah, then he proceeded to invest heavily in Goldman Sachs, who had huge exposure to AIG (and all their derivatives). Berkshire Hathaway is deep into insurance and financial companies (and all their derivatives). He became victim to the falling dominoes. That's why he's thanking the gummint now.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    Sorry, I don't see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Yeah, then he proceeded to invest heavily in Goldman Sachs, who had huge exposure to AIG (and all their derivatives). Berkshire Hathaway is deep into insurance and financial companies (and all their derivatives). He became victim to the falling dominoes. That's why he's thanking the gummint now.
    From an article dated 2003,
    Buffett warns on investment 'time bomb'

    Berkshire Hathaway, the investment group led by Mr Buffett, is pulling out of the market, closing down the derivatives trading subsidiary it bought as part of a huge reinsurance company a few years ago.
    And from my previous post,
    Central banks and governments have so far found no effective way to control, or even monitor, the risks posed by these contracts.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  25. #25
    Yes. Sarcasm includes glorifying something that shouldn't have been necessary.
    On my first read through, while I felt the playful tone, I didn't see sarcasm (though I was anticipating it due to the tone.) After I read your comment that this was sarcasm. I read it again this time looking for double meanings or any form of sarcasm, and the only thing I really caught different was I think he genuinely compliments Bernanke and the goverment for their quickly hashed preventative measures that saved our economy. However, that he did emphasize that due to their lack of oversight that this "rot" as he calls it was allowed to fester.

    I like Warren buffet hard working, honest, and intelligent, which logically makes him more of a democrat than a republican . That said, while I wasn't for the bail outs exactly as executed, I wanted the leaders of the boards executed as well (fired and fined), I will say such as in the case with car industry bail out, I like the fact Obama gave bail outs with strings attached, and in the form of purchasing stock, such that we can see a return on our money. That was well executed, and I am thankful it was done in such an intelligent manner. As opposed to blindly and idiotically throwing money at them.

  26. #26
    Ya know who should have written a Thank You note to Uncle Sam? GM. Looks like a successful result from guvment intervention. They should remind the naysayers and tax payers that sometimes labor / business / government can work together and be successful.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Ya know who should have written a Thank You note to Uncle Sam? GM. Looks like a successful result from guvment intervention. They should remind the naysayers and tax payers that sometimes labor / business / government can work together and be successful.
    The problem is, those shares are selling for $34; we need $50 per share to recoup our investment even without charging interest. Smoke and mirrors to hide the transfer of money from the taxpayer to the private sector.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    The problem is, those shares are selling for $34; we need $50 per share to recoup our investment even without charging interest. Smoke and mirrors to hide the transfer of money from the taxpayer to the private sector.
    Hey, I was trying to find a glimmer of optimism out there! I was surprised their IPO came so soon, maybe too soon?

  29. #29
    Well, it's suspicious how fast this bit fell from the news,

    GM Uses ‘TARP Money Shuffle’ to Pay Loans.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  30. #30
    The problem is, those shares are selling for $34; we need $50 per share to recoup our investment even without charging interest. Smoke and mirrors to hide the transfer of money from the taxpayer to the private sector.
    I think this is the wrong look entirely. I think we could have been in the much worse scenario of having giving them money with no strings, and not in the form of buying stock. Arguably we NEEDED to do it to avoid dire consequences, we expected loss, financial loss this is a way to minimizes our losses with providing the necessary bail outs. I just wished they forced management to be rotated out over the years and fined them heavily.

    What did you expect on the bail out? I think this is a good outcome.

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