Obama did something good: Here is why

[Lewkowski]

Yet the lake has not even been remotely affected in its ability to continue being a lake.

This is what I'm objecting to:

So yeah, they think that having the very wealthy paying lower taxes than the middle class is actually a good idea.

The wealthy are NOT paying lower taxes.

[Being]

This is what I'm objecting to:



The wealthy are NOT paying lower taxes.

By (tax actually paid)/income the wealthy are paying about half the tax that average Americans pay.

[GGT]

The wealthy are NOT paying lower taxes.

I'm sure we've gone over this before, but explain how you came up with that idea. Or was Warren Buffet just makin' stuff up about his effective tax rate being less than his secretary's?

[Lewkowski]

I'm sure we've gone over this before, but explain how you came up with that idea. Or was Warren Buffet just makin' stuff up about his effective tax rate being less than his secretary's?

Tax rate != taxes paid.

That being said Warren Buffet and the other "super rich" are in a different category then most people. In most cases the wealthy do pay a higher tax rate.

[Being]

In most cases the wealthy do pay a higher tax rate.

Specific examples would convince me.

[GGT]

Tax rate != taxes paid.

That being said Warren Buffet and the other "super rich" are in a different category then most people. In most cases the wealthy do pay a higher tax rate.

No, they really don't. Payroll taxes stop at the first $106,000 earned income. Dividends and capital gains are taxed at a low 15%. Wealthier people also itemize and deduct the hell out of their profits, many use tax shelters. That's why Buffet's rate is 17% but his secretary's is 32%.

Back to the water analogy --- it's crazy to take more from a jug than a lake. That's why lower-middle income workers are feeling 'drained'.

[Nessus]

The point is that we don't say the rich person has paid less simply because he has more money. He has paid more because 5 dollars is more then 1 dollar. Same concept goes for taxes. Tear always likes to say the rich pay "less" then the middle class in taxes. And by less Tear means a smaller percentage. My point is that a $100 is a $100, if someone has paid less that would mean they have paid less dollars then someone.

No, he has not paid less in absolute. I don't think anyone's saying that (except in your librl dreams I guess), but we also just recently agreed that part of conservative rhetoric is that absolute values do not matter so long as the ratio looks better. Or is that just for people and not dollars?

[EyeKhan]

Of course they were. If Republicans refused to budge on one thing and Obama refused to budge on one thing the Bush tax cuts would have expired and everyone's taxes would have gone up.

Note that part of what Obama apparently held out for was a reduction of your taxes. You get a cut off your Social Security tax (exasserbating that problem in the long term, btw). The irony, of course, is you voted for, and will again, the guys who held out for the millionaires. And the BIGGER irony is both your tax cut and the millionaire tax cut aren't going to benefit the economy and are hurting the US long term. Ok, check, that. Yours, the one you effectively voted against, might benefit the economy, because people in your income bracket will actually spend the money, whereas the upper income folks will effectively bank theirs - or more specifically put it into shorter term bonds or stocks - and do nothing to grease the wheels of consumerism.

[']['ear]

You do realize that Lewk plans on being there eventually, right? In the upper bracket, I mean?

[Lewkowski]

Specific examples would convince me.

Since I don't have access to other people's tax returns I wouldn't be able to give specific data. I consider myself middle class making around 50k a year. Last year I paid 0 federal income tax. So that left me with payroll taxes and property taxes. I would think most poor people won't even have property taxes to worry about. So as long as most hypothetical rich folks pay at least oh 10% of their income in taxes they DO pay a higher rate. My income is right around the median income for the United States.

[']['ear]

Wow, thanks for that cutting edge analysis, Lewk.

Buffett said he paid a lower tax rate than his secretary