If the Democrats just had some balls...
...or even some common sense...they'd let all the tax cuts end and leave the new Republican house with the responsibility of managing the unemployed. How many middleclass are going to notice, let alone complain about losing a piddling $30 a month? Take it, I don't want it. Just make sure you tax these other citizens too; coniving shits.
Tax Fear May Move Bonuses Earlier
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Their hearts are bigger than their balls. Either that, or they're trying to be too many things to too many people, and can't make up their minds.
The sun has set on Bush's cuts, it's time to play Taps for everyone.
They can change the name to "incentive whatever the hell", but they can't hide.The top five Wall Street firms have put aside nearly $90 billion for total pay this year, and they are expected to raise that amount using their end of year earnings. That would make this year one of the best ever for bank pay.
I also want to know if Goldman Sachs still has "bank holding" status, and if so, why?
Bush Tax-Cut Deal With Jobless Aid Said to Be Near
Hello...Democrats... You were defeated in the election not this debate...not yet. The only way you can be defeated in this debate is by voting for any tax cuts at all. Let them die and you can walk away knowing that you funded the extension of unemployment benefits (plus added an additional $650 billion to our coffers) but the Republicans refused it. Let them deal with it.Senior Democrats on Sunday said that they were resigned to defeat in the highly charged tax debate, and they voiced dismay.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
I'd like to see what would happen if the GOP's policies were implemented, straight away. No extensions for unemployment, in exchange for extending Bush's tax cuts to the wealthy. Slash federal programs, beginning with Education, Health and Welfare. No more matching funds for states' Medicaid. Let the states go on their own for public education, police force, fire departments. Balance the damn budget, right now!
Oh, but keep spending on military contracts and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Don't touch SS or Medicare, either.
I'd like to see how that would all play out, once long term unemployed and young people get a taste of that. But not really. I don't have the balls for riots in the streets and seeing National Guard keeping the peace.
I don't believe the Democrats growing a pair (even if they only hang till the end of the 111th) will cause much mayhem on main street. It will however decrease our deficit.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
See, I think this part of what you're posting is where you have seriously misread things.Originally Posted by Being
And from Peggy Noonan, who in her own weird way has read the situation well:
People don't care about your class warefare, Being. They care about having a government that can come up with something more constructive and bold than "tax the rich (and tax everyone else more too, but let's bury that deeper in the tax code)".Here is a reading on the psychology of higher national taxes at this particular moment. The American people know, and have made clear they know, that the great issue is spending. If we raise taxes now to cut the deficit, it will depress the entire country, because the American people will interpret it to mean that the government will never control spending, it will only try to tax our way out of debt. This will depress everyone for a number of reasons, including the fact that they know in the long-term higher taxes will make our economy worse by making us less vibrant, less competitive, and more individually burdened.
If we instead refuse to raise taxes right now, we will be setting a stage in which cuts in federal spending are the only path. Cutting spending will seem inevitable, like something that will actually happen. This will give rise to hope. There's a way out! We can do it!
How the cutting is done will be the great question, which raises another one. Will the American people, over the next few years, act seriously on their own beliefs? We're so used to being disappointed in politicians that we forget to be disappointed in ourselves.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...805391316.html
Peggy is a good conservative writer, where taxes are never a good idea. Not in times of prosperity, not during War, and certainly not in times of flux. It's the typical mantra from the GOP and WSJ clan: taxes are teh evil. Unfortunately for them, they didn't control spending, even when they could. They became the borrow and spend party. No wonder the American psychology seems schizoid to the pundits.
People DO care about class warfare, Dread. No one thinks our polemic and disparate extremes work well. They DO care about a government that can actually govern and exhibit leadership, even when it's not popular to make the tough choices. Most people can probably admit that we need to raise taxes AND cut spending. Even though we've known it for decades, it's taken a deficit commission to say it out loud. And still, the parties are bickering for their "constituents". That's pathetic.
I whiled away some time reading the comments from Being's link. Pages of angry posters, no surprise there. I liked these:
There's greed and then there's this kind of greed which is reprehensible. Bears make money, bulls make money. Pigs make messes.These made me sad:Heaven forbid the Wall Street wealthy pay taxes to the country that bailed them out.
The true terrorists have been exposed - it is our financial industry. They pay themselves a king's ransom for mediocre work at the expense of our 401k's. They have hijacked our government in a method that is no less treasonous than the 9/11 hijackers and the they are steering the country towards destruction. I have nothing but hatred and rage for our financial industry, and by extension, our country that I used to love.America, RIP. My heart is heavy.
WSJ != GOP. Many conservatives spent the past decade ranting about overspending. The Democrats made overspending and their historical role as the only post-war party of surpluses into a campaign issue in 2006. This isn't a partisan issue anymore.
It's just plain true, all the sophomoric Internet posters in the world who think there's a linear curve between tax rates and revenue can't change that.The American people know, and have made clear they know, that the great issue is spending. If we raise taxes now to cut the deficit, it will depress the entire country, because the American people will interpret it to mean that the government will never control spending, it will only try to tax our way out of debt.
Nice, "you only lost the election but who cares about that?"
It's not just a class warfare thing; if the US government doesn't cut the deficit (and god knows that's near impossible if you only depend on less spending but don't touch the traditonal no-noes) at some point the US will be unable to finance its needs or only be able to do so at levels that are not sustainable in the long run.
American voters may emote that way, but it is really time to put an end to re-inforcing their believe in the impossible. A government can NOT cut not a single middle class entitlement and/or national security and still continue with taxes that are too low to afford those entitlements. The free lunch has been eaten. Where the actual bill for it will land will be hard to predict, but it is coming.
Congratulations America
It is imperative that the US gvmt cut the deficit. W's tax cuts were lunacy when they happened, and they should be allowed to expire. ALL of them. Loki, Dread, where are the deficit hawks now, eh? You guys are just typical credit card Republicans.
They are still in office and have a job to do. Or would you prefer they get paid for not doing anything? And since they can't be "punished" for doing the right thing, they should. The tax cuts did absolutely nothing to spur continued job growth, which was the carrot that got them passed, so what reason is there for extending them?
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
US government is not going to adopt austerity just because of a federal deficit, no matter how large. It's had ample opportunities to do so. I agree that our voting public in aggregate simply doesn't give a shit about classist positions *and more power to them for it* but Noonan is grasping at straws. "Starving the budget" simply does not work here. Now maybe if we persist with trying to do so long enough we can force a collapse, drive the world away from the dollar, and ensure no one will take our IOUs, leaving Congress with no choice but to cut spending, but that's probably a more harmful way to finally reach managable government finances than raising taxes.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Exactly. The Credit Card and spend approach of the GOP may well destroy our country. It's time for the GOP to man up and take responsibility for the debt mess that primarily THEY have created. We need greater revenues in conjunction with program cuts. A great start is letting the W tax cuts expire. An added bonus is that nobody has to do anything. Their expiration was written into the law, so nobody can reasonably be accused of "raising taxes."
No, I'd prefer to end the ridiculous 2 month delay between voting and taking office. In the UK nobody is an MP anymore technically once an election is called (4 weeks before the vote), the day someone is elected they take office immediately. Far better.
Those who no longer have a mandate shouldn't abuse the delay in the process.
That's just a matter of tradition. But I do agree with you that it also is a bit odd to me so see a Congress making a last ditch attempt at using old majorities to push through policies. Maybe their mandate has legally not expired, but by any other standard it has.
Congratulations America
We have a long history of lame duck action in this country. Unfortunately the Democrats don't have balls of steel like the Republicans clank around when they are the lame ducks.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
The GOP always has balls of steel. Hence "party of small government and fiscal responsibility" when they have done far more to grow government and run up the debt. Takes neutronium balls to pitch lies of that magnitude and succeed.
Really? Cut payroll taxes now? What world are these people living in? The land of money grows on debt trees?
Deal on Bush Tax Cuts Trims Payroll Levy
Smoke and mirrors...
Apparently nobody told the Democrats that all the money being collected via payroll taxes has already been spent in promises to purchase future treasury bonds.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Ignoring Tear's hard-partisan posts...
I don't think we're quite yet at the point where we need austerity. But I also don't think Noonan is talking about "starve the beast" mentality here. She's talking about an electorate that won't tolerate tax increases for an obviously bloated government. Because ultimately this particular tax issue isn't going to push the needle very far in one direction or another.
It's not fair to treat the electorate as a single mind. What don't you want to pay for Dread? Please be specific.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
I've made it very clear that I want to dramatically cut (or even sunset) social security and cut a large portion of our discretionary spending.
Spoiler:
And I want to cut defense spending by half. So together, have we solved the deficit spending problem?
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Once we get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, we'll have saved a lot of money on the military budget. The difference between the military and social security is that one isn't guaranteed to strangle us.
So together, have we solved the deficit spending problem?
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Ha Ha.The package would cost about $900 billion over the next two years, to be financed entirely by adding to the national debt, at a time when both parties are professing a desire to begin addressing the nation’s long-term fiscal imbalances.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Once again, those projections are meaningless. Just because you cut an income tax doesn't mean the government loses money. Many will increase expenditures or investment as a result of having more money in their pockets.
And -- unlike the stimulus -- the positive impact will be felt very quickly.
Cutting the payroll tax is absolutely insane. I'm just suprised the Republicans haven't countered with increasing the cap instead. I'm pretty sure there are some very strict rules already in place to protect that revenue stream.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
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