Meet America's first line of defense against "terrorism"

[Ominous Gamer]

WalMart employees!

Washington, D.C. - Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Janet Napolitano today announced the expansion of the Department's national "If You See Something, Say Something" campaign to hundreds of Walmart stores across the country - launching a new partnership between DHS and Walmart to help the American public play an active role in ensuring the safety and security of our nation.

"Homeland security starts with hometown security, and each of us plays a critical role in keeping our country and communities safe," said Secretary Napolitano. "I applaud Walmart for joining the ‘If You See Something, Say Something' campaign. This partnership will help millions of shoppers across the nation identify and report indicators of terrorism, crime and other threats to law enforcement authorities."

The "If You See Something, Say Something" campaign—originally implemented by New York City's Metropolitan Transportation Authority and funded, in part, by $13 million from DHS' Transit Security Grant Program—is a simple and effective program to engage the public and key frontline employees to identify and report indicators of terrorism, crime and other threats to the proper transportation and law enforcement authorities.

More than 230 Walmart stores nationwide launched the "If You See Something, Say Something" campaign today, with a total of 588 Walmart stores in 27 states joining in the coming weeks. A short video message will play at select checkout locations to remind shoppers to contact local law enforcement to report suspicious activity.

Over the past five months, DHS has worked with its federal, state, local and private sector partners, as well as the Department of Justice, to expand the "If You See Something, Say Something" campaign and Nationwide SAR Initiative to communities throughout the country—including the recent state-wide expansions of the "If You See Something, Say Something" campaign across Minnesota and New Jersey. Partners include the Mall of America, the American Hotel & Lodging Association, Amtrak, the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, sports and general aviation industries, and state and local fusion centers across the country.

In the coming months, the Department will continue to expand the "If You See Something, Say Something" campaign nationally with public education materials and outreach tools designed to help America's businesses, communities and citizens remain vigilant and play an active role in keeping the country safe.

Nothing like being subjected to American propaganda to possibly report my fellow citizens while supporting American consumer based capitalism in an attempt to get my regular fix for chinese made crap.

Wonder how long before this creates a receipt checking incident.

[GGT]

Walmart can't even keep their stores clean. There's always crap on the floors and racks jammed tight. They do seem to have a bunch of cameras, though.

[littlelolligagged]

Remember, kids, the only thing to fear is fear itself (and your neighbors, and anyone who is Muslim, or from anywhere but Amerika)

[wiggin]

I think there's nothing wrong with encouraging a culture of security awareness, and to do that you need more than just the already trained and vigilant to keep an eye open. Joe Schmoes who work at WalMart - and see a lot of people every day - are hardly the worst choice.

I agree there's a fine line between telling people to be alert about potential security threats and encouraging people to inform on 'anti government' sentiment or some similar nightmare, but I don't think they've crossed that line. This is more of a 'if you see someone buying a lot of iffy shit, tell someone' as opposed to 'if they're wearing an Obamunism shirt or look funny'.

[Ominous Gamer]

This is more of a 'if you see someone buying a lot of iffy shit, tell someone'

Considering this is walmart, the customers walmart is famous for, and the complete lack of training most walmart employees go through...
Completely againist this type concept. Thats not even getting into the witch hunt mentality that terrorism currently supports, in which something your friend once said on a random forum somehow gives the government enough reason to start tracking and spying on you.

I'm also not getting your interpretation, since the video wants to be vague enough to only say "see something suspicious" and "suspicious activity."

[GGT]

And what does "Iffy Shit" look like? At Walmart people buy guns and ammo, backpacks and canned food, bags of fertilizer...all the time.

[Hazir]

I think there's nothing wrong with encouraging a culture of security awareness, and to do that you need more than just the already trained and vigilant to keep an eye open. Joe Schmoes who work at WalMart - and see a lot of people every day - are hardly the worst choice.

I agree there's a fine line between telling people to be alert about potential security threats and encouraging people to inform on 'anti government' sentiment or some similar nightmare, but I don't think they've crossed that line. This is more of a 'if you see someone buying a lot of iffy shit, tell someone' as opposed to 'if they're wearing an Obamunism shirt or look funny'.

Ditto, and it's really not so hard to figure out what is iffy shit and what isn't.

[Ominous Gamer]

Conversation:
Can't wait till I can jump in with the Taliban and get the drop on my brother, he has always been all about the Special forces

Context:
Metal of Honor online play

What Joe the Plumber hears:

[Catgrrl]

Hmm, will have to warn my friend about this. One time he said he went through the line with steak knives, drain cleaner, batteries, duct tape, and condoms. The cashier raised her eyebrows but didn't say a thing.

We've all purchased some odd shit at Walmart because they sell EVERYTHING. I'd actually think that they'd want to watch the bulk stores like Sam's Club instead.

But ya, Walmart has alot of fucking cameras. And it doesn't do shit; a Salvation Army volunteer had his donation bucket stolen in the middle of the day on Black Friday at one of our more ghetto Walmarts. Cameras didn't get a clear picture of suspects.

[Aimless]

Joe Schmoes who work at WalMart - and see a lot of people every day - are hardly the worst choice.

It's the worst choice. A bad or unvalidated screening test for a very rare condition applied on a massive scale, where false positive not only cost money time and energy but also put innocents at risk of hassled by the gummint not to mention their neighbours. Not cool in the least. The US is not Israel.

[wiggin]

The cost need not be so high for a false positive. Government security forces just need to learn to calibrate their responses. I also don't think they're requiring some 'screening', just letting the employees know to keep their eyes open. Little will likely change, except possibly in their attitude towards things and the chances of seeing something fishy.

Let's say AQ gets their act together and realizes that cheap, simple terrorism is far more effective than spectacular one-off attacks (AQAP has already said something along these lines with the printer bombs). What's better than sending a couple of guys armed with assault rifles into a mall or a Walmart? An alert employee noticing something just a minute or two earlier would make the eventual damage much less. If it's a false positive, the worst thing that's happened is a few cops got pulled off a speed trap for a few minutes.

[Nessus]

What's better than sending a couple of guys armed with assault rifles into a mall or a Walmart?

No disrespect to the few dozen potentially dead Americans, but I think the impact of this outside US boarders might be...Underwhelming. Although apparently Fox News is popular down there (well, in the Saudis), so who knows.

[Ominous Gamer]

Government security forces just need to learn to calibrate their responses.

Yeah, because that shouldn't have been handled before siccing walmart employees on citizens.

If it's a false positive, the worst thing that's happened is a few cops got pulled off a speed trap for a few minutes.

It amazing you would say this, right after admitting the previous line I quoted. You're also completely ignoring any backend investigations and how something like this can ruin a person's life.

[RandBlade]

I think there's nothing wrong with encouraging a culture of security awareness, and to do that you need more than just the already trained and vigilant to keep an eye open. Joe Schmoes who work at WalMart - and see a lot of people every day - are hardly the worst choice.

I agree there's a fine line between telling people to be alert about potential security threats and encouraging people to inform on 'anti government' sentiment or some similar nightmare, but I don't think they've crossed that line. This is more of a 'if you see someone buying a lot of iffy shit, tell someone' as opposed to 'if they're wearing an Obamunism shirt or look funny'.

Well said.

[Hazir]

The cost need not be so high for a false positive. Government security forces just need to learn to calibrate their responses. I also don't think they're requiring some 'screening', just letting the employees know to keep their eyes open. Little will likely change, except possibly in their attitude towards things and the chances of seeing something fishy.

Let's say AQ gets their act together and realizes that cheap, simple terrorism is far more effective than spectacular one-off attacks (AQAP has already said something along these lines with the printer bombs). What's better than sending a couple of guys armed with assault rifles into a mall or a Walmart? An alert employee noticing something just a minute or two earlier would make the eventual damage much less. If it's a false positive, the worst thing that's happened is a few cops got pulled off a speed trap for a few minutes.

I guess that what they want is the kind of attitude in the general public that makes people like me jump in when an elderly couple in line for check in gets talked into checking someone elses suitcase. I told the couple concerned that if they would say yes to that request, I would report this to security.

[Khendraja'aro]

l think I'll point out the obvious: We already did that in Germany.
Was called the "Blockwart".

[wiggin]

No disrespect to the few dozen potentially dead Americans, but I think the impact of this outside US boarders might be...Underwhelming. Although apparently Fox News is popular down there (well, in the Saudis), so who knows.

Yeah, but it would fundamentally change the way America views terrorism if this sort of thing happened on a monthly basis. Only a few dozen dead Americans at each instance (rather than thousands), but it makes pretty much every place a potential target, is incredibly cheap to pull off, and is fantastically hard to secure against. Big threats are always easier to spot and avoid than the small stuff.

OG: I don't know what you mean by 'backend investigations', and I also think you and I have a very different idea of what this would entail. I don't think that anyone looking suspicious should be hauled off to jail and questioned; rather, having a security or police officer make their presence known might be enough - or a polite question or two can easily determine if someone is a threat or just odd.

Khendra - please, please don't Godwin this with a ridiculous comparison.

[Khendraja'aro]

It's not a ridiculous comparison, sorry. The US are well on their way to a fascist state if they don't heed what our own minister of the interior stated a few weeks back: "You can't expect 100% security and you should not give up freedom for it. Nor should you create an atmosphere of fear."
It's a moronic idea, sorry.

[GGT]

The cost need not be so high for a false positive. Government security forces just need to learn to calibrate their responses. I also don't think they're requiring some 'screening', just letting the employees know to keep their eyes open. Little will likely change, except possibly in their attitude towards things and the chances of seeing something fishy.

Let's say AQ gets their act together and realizes that cheap, simple terrorism is far more effective than spectacular one-off attacks (AQAP has already said something along these lines with the printer bombs). What's better than sending a couple of guys armed with assault rifles into a mall or a Walmart? An alert employee noticing something just a minute or two earlier would make the eventual damage much less. If it's a false positive, the worst thing that's happened is a few cops got pulled off a speed trap for a few minutes.

I disagree. As Aimy said, the US is not Israel. We've known since 9/11 to "be alert and report suspicious behavior". Whether at the airport or Walmart or the Mall of America. We've already been instructed to suspect baggage, backpacks and packages, vehicles parked for long times or circling the block. Nothing has changed.

We're also supposed to watch for little kids that may be kidnapped, for the whole Amber Alert process. Now we're on alert (for the FBI) to who's buying that Video Barbie doll with a camera in her chest, "in case they're a pedophile". The Public Awareness Campaign is complete. The Average Joe is ever on Alert!


<Oh yeah, and Walmart has rescinded their Sunday one dollar/hour bonus pay for their workers. Happy Holidays!>

[Ominous Gamer]

OG: I don't know what you mean by 'backend investigations', and I also think you and I have a very different idea of what this would entail. I don't think that anyone looking suspicious should be hauled off to jail and questioned; rather, having a security or police officer make their presence known might be enough - or a polite question or two can easily determine if someone is a threat or just odd.

It ties into the idea that law enforcement going overboard when it comes to "terror." A point you already touched on. Where they shut down cities over lightbrites, blow up toys because of cement, spy and track you because of a single rant from a distant friend, drop jihad ranting informants into mosques. What you are describing, thus far isn't how law enforcement has acted when it comes to terror. I'm providing actual examples.

WalMart needs better security? Thats fine, take a page out of Target's handbook and open up actual office space for the police and sherrifs to use, you know, the people that are supposed to be trained in this witch hunt.

It's not a ridiculous comparison, sorry. The US are well on their way to a fascist state if they don't heed what our own minister of the interior stated a few weeks back: "You can't expect 100% security and you should not give up freedom for it. Nor should you create an atmosphere of fear."
It's a moronic idea, sorry.

Its amazing how easily Americans forget.

[wiggin]

I've said my piece, I think any more discussion is likely to go downhill from here. Clearly we disagree; it's probably unimportant which of us is right.

[GGT]

They're burning down that Bomb House in CA now. Filled with so many explosives it couldn't safely be cleared. Discovered by a gardener when he stepped on something that went boom!

Really, our best defense against "terrorism" is being aware of our neighbors. Not just as potential terrorists or meth cookers or whatever --- but check on shut-ins during cold or hot weather, know who lives alone or has little kids. Every time I read news about bad things happening, either a child that's been starved or beaten to death, or an elderly lady who froze to death, or a weirdo collecting bomb materials or arsenals of weapons, it's amazing that the neighbors had no idea and are totally shocked.

[Nessus]

Yeah, but it would fundamentally change the way America views terrorism if this sort of thing happened on a monthly basis. Only a few dozen dead Americans at each instance (rather than thousands), but it makes pretty much every place a potential target, is incredibly cheap to pull off, and is fantastically hard to secure against. Big threats are always easier to spot and avoid than the small stuff.

Oh, no doubt, I just don't see it being a big hit among the people who're willing to spend months around the US fucking and drinking before strapping a bomb on themselves and flying to the next world. It doesn't have that zest and grandeur as blowing up the great infidels' money markets does, you know? It's easy to find dumb shmucks to blow themselves apart on market squares in Israel because they have an over-abundance of desperate and destitute Mohammedans. Which type of terrorist would Al Qaida import? The smart and faithful want more symbolism and a feeling of real sacrifice instead of mock guerilla warfare, and the dumb shmucks can just as well blow themselves up close to home.

[']['ear]

I almost always disagree with Khen, but on this one we are agreed. Fear and paranoia are bad things. They are bad for individual citizens, bad for communities, and bad for the countries. They are anathema to a modern democracy.

[Knux897]

"Attention WalMart shoppers, terrorist on Aisle 3. Again, Aisle 3"

[Ominous Gamer]

At least City 17 had better security

[Hazir]

l think I'll point out the obvious: We already did that in Germany.
Was called the "Blockwart".

Congratulations on your Godwin, from a German so it must be true.

[Hazir]

I almost always disagree with Khen, but on this one we are agreed. Fear and paranoia are bad things. They are bad for individual citizens, bad for communities, and bad for the countries. They are anathema to a modern democracy.

So true, and of course there will also never be suicidebombings in Stockholm.

[Aimless]

if only they'd enlisted the IKEA employees, then this would never have appened

[Hazir]

if only they'd enlisted the IKEA employees, then this would never have appened

Don't know this guy, but it always surprises me if their own family don't even pick up on the signals.