Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: NYC to Bill Motorists Who Crash and Need Aid

  1. #1

    Default NYC to Bill Motorists Who Crash and Need Aid

    WTF are our taxes for then?

    Well, I guess too bad if you're in an accident. There's a state retiree pension to be paid! But seriously, this is a nightmare and exactly what I say when I talk about a bloated state being the greatest enemy of liberalism.

    Not to mention this shit is embarrassing. If a car hits a tourist, is the tourist going to get billed for medical expenses and the fire department?

    NY POLITICS DECEMBER 10, 2010
    City to Bill Motorists Who Crash and Need Aid

    Attention New York City motorists: If you get into an accident and need the Fire Department to come to the rescue, expect a bill.

    Facing serious budgetary constraints, Mayor Michael Bloomberg's administration has decided to join a growing number of municipalities around the country that are charging motorists involved in accidents for emergency-response services.

    This so-called crash tax or accident tax has left bill recipients in other places around the country outraged, and a number of states have banned the practice.

    The FDNY plans to start sending out bills July 1. A vehicle fire or any other incident with injuries will cost $490. A vehicle fire without injuries will cost $415. And incidents without fire or injuries will cost $365. These charges apply to every vehicle involved in the incident.

    The New York City Fire Department, the largest municipal fire department in the nation, "can no longer afford to provide" emergency services to motorists "at no cost to those who require them," a statement from the FDNY said.

    A public hearing on the new charges will be held at FDNY headquarters Jan. 14. While FDNY officials promised to consider the public's input, the policy change doesn't need City Council approval and already has the support of FDNY Commissioner Sal Cassano and the mayor.

    "We want to relieve pressure on the taxpayer and place it on those at fault and their insurance," said Steve Ritea, a spokesman for the FDNY. "Right now if you're at fault at an accident or a vehicle fire, you get a free ride. And that should not be borne by the taxpayers."

    But according to the rules proposed by the FDNY, the department will bill the "motorist to whom motorist services are provided."
    Mr. Ritea confirmed that the motorist—whether that person is at fault or not—will receive the bill.

    "If we're talking about an act of God situation, a tree falls on car, then we have discretion, obviously not to bill in those cases," he said. "If the accident is exceedingly minor, we show up on scene and nobody needs medical assistance and there's no fire or anything like that, then, we have discretion."

    While some fire departments have started charging people for services delivered to put out house fires, Mr. Ritea said the FDNY isn't currently considering that.

    Last year, the city responded to roughly 14,000 vehicle incidents in the five boroughs. Of those, about 2,900 involved fires and about 7,500 were accidents with injuries.

    Officials in New York pointed to other cities that have already started charging motorists. In California, for example, 55 cities have enacted similar policies and another 20 are considering it.

    New York City officials project this policy will generate $1 million in annual revenue. Insurance officials said many auto insurance policies don't cover these types of charges, and if companies are mandated to cover the charges, premiums will increase.

    Motorists reacted Thursday with outrage about the prospect of getting billed next year for accidents.

    "That sucks," said Barret Ramnath, 48 years old, a Queens resident who makes his living as a driver. "Accidents happen, and you can't be held responsible."

    Chris Coppinger, 49, a sales manager at a music company, called the plan "a bad idea."

    Ellen Melchionni, president of the New York Insurance Association, said she views these charges as "double billing."

    "If the police show up at your house for a domestic violence dispute or a break-in, are they going to send you a bill? Those are services that are typically covered when you pay your taxes," she said.

    Ms. Melchionni said most auto insurance policies in New York don't cover these types of charges. And if the insurance companies are required to cover the charges, she predicted that premiums would increase.

    Justin McNaull, a spokesman for AAA, called these charges "short-sighted."

    "We have concerns that some motorists might be less likely to call police to crash scenes, allowing drunk drivers, uninsured drivers, drivers with suspended licenses, and others to go undetected," he said.

    Deputy Mayor Stephen Goldsmith said New York City is simply following the path blazed by other cities that bill motorists and their insurance companies.

    "Now New York City will, too," he said. "We are going to search for other ways to shift costs away from overburdened taxpayers and towards accountable parties."

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...653038772.html

  2. #2
    My only problem is this part:

    Mr. Ritea confirmed that the motorist—whether that person is at fault or not—will receive the bill.
    If person is not at fault and billed that seems pretty silly. However if they want to charge people who *cause* the accident with their lax driving by all means I'm OK with it.

  3. #3
    A vehicle fire or any other incident with injuries will cost $490. A vehicle fire without injuries will cost $415. And incidents without fire or injuries will cost $365. These charges apply to every vehicle involved in the incident.
    Last year, the city responded to roughly 14,000 vehicle incidents in the five boroughs. Of those, about 2,900 involved fires and about 7,500 were accidents with injuries.
    Kind of confusing. Why are they dispatching the Fire Department to every car accident, whether or not there are fires or injuries? Do they mean Ambulance response? Even then, why are they sending ambulances to every car accident? Fender benders don't even need police to respond.

    New York City officials project this policy will generate $1 million in annual revenue.
    Ah, that's why.

  4. #4
    I don't see what's so outlandish about this. You paid taxes before and got billed for medical expenses. So you got insurance. I expect the same thing to happen here, people will just get more comprehensive auto insurance, and if you can't afford to pay or are at fault, well too bad for you. *shrug*

    Although it would be fairer if NYC opened the market for private fire stations and trucks. You could get memberships and deals, it'd be sweet.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  5. #5
    "We have concerns that some motorists might be less likely to call police to crash scenes, allowing drunk drivers, uninsured drivers, drivers with suspended licenses, and others to go undetected," he said.
    No one needs Big Government to step in and tell us how to deal with accidents or what hoops we need to jump through to drive our cars.

    Did I pay for my car? Damn straight I did. So let me decide what way to use it, let others decide for themselves as well. If that means the roads will be more dangerous, well, guess what, no one is forcing you to make use of those roads. It's your decision to run that risk. You know, this is how socialism in pre-war Nazi Germany started. What are the Nazis known for? Building state-owned roads. So they could move their government forces easier around Germany to collect taxes at gunpoint. That is what Bloomberg is doing as a lackey for Comrade Obama! And this is just the start. You'll see that when the people who dare to ask questions are proven right in 2012 when America is destroyed.

    Hang in there America! Don't let them take away your freedoms!
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  6. #6
    Come on, no one who wants small government also wants private rescue squads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I don't see what's so outlandish about this. You paid taxes before and got billed for medical expenses. So you got insurance. I expect the same thing to happen here, people will just get more comprehensive auto insurance, and if you can't afford to pay or are at fault, well too bad for you. *shrug*

    Although it would be fairer if NYC opened the market for private fire stations and trucks. You could get memberships and deals, it'd be sweet.
    I think you're right about insurance premiums going up to deal with this. But there is a difference in that our hospitals [mostly] aren't state-run, so our taxes weren't going directly to the hospitals.

    The thing that doesn't seem to add up is that this is projected to generate only $1 million. In a $42 billion budget, they really couldn't find the extra million needed to actually do their jobs?

  7. #7
    It's called satire. Do you have that in America?
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    But there is a difference in that our hospitals [mostly] aren't state-run, so our taxes weren't going directly to the hospitals.
    Which is why it'd be fair to open the markets for private fire fighters, see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    The thing that doesn't seem to add up is that this is projected to generate only $1 million. In a $42 billion budget, they really couldn't find the extra million needed to actually do their jobs?
    Maybe they see their job definition differently. Do any NYC taxes go towards Predator drones?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  9. #9
    I don't see a problem with billing those responsible. People are discovering that they have to call the police out to the simpliest of accidents because most insurance companies become nightmares to deal with without that police report. Not ok with billing the victim in any matter.
    Also don't agree with:
    "We have concerns that some motorists might be less likely to call police to crash scenes, allowing drunk drivers, uninsured drivers, drivers with suspended licenses, and others to go undetected," he said.
    Because I'm willing to bet anyone who was likely to flee because of this new fine would have been just as likely to flee to avoid getting raped by their new insurance premium. Ignoring that the victim would get billed for calling in they just got T-boned by a DUI.

    This sounds like its aimed mainly towards the tourists that drive into NYC and don't understand how to handle the "WTF is your problem" driving population. Much like how states love setting up speed traps only a few miles from the state line, whatever tickets/fines/fees are unlikely to be challenged.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I don't see what's so outlandish about this. You paid taxes before and got billed for medical expenses. So you got insurance. I expect the same thing to happen here, people will just get more comprehensive auto insurance, and if you can't afford to pay or are at fault, well too bad for you. *shrug*

    Although it would be fairer if NYC opened the market for private fire stations and trucks. You could get memberships and deals, it'd be sweet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    No one needs Big Government to step in and tell us how to deal with accidents or what hoops we need to jump through to drive our cars.

    Did I pay for my car? Damn straight I did. So let me decide what way to use it, let others decide for themselves as well. If that means the roads will be more dangerous, well, guess what, no one is forcing you to make use of those roads. It's your decision to run that risk. You know, this is how socialism in pre-war Nazi Germany started. What are the Nazis known for? Building state-owned roads. So they could move their government forces easier around Germany to collect taxes at gunpoint. That is what Bloomberg is doing as a lackey for Comrade Obama! And this is just the start. You'll see that when the people who dare to ask questions are proven right in 2012 when America is destroyed.

    Hang in there America! Don't let them take away your freedoms!
    Yay satire!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Come on, no one who wants small government also wants private rescue squads.
    Oh?



    I think you're right about insurance premiums going up to deal with this. But there is a difference in that our hospitals [mostly] aren't state-run, so our taxes weren't going directly to the hospitals.

    The thing that doesn't seem to add up is that this is projected to generate only $1 million. In a $42 billion budget, they really couldn't find the extra million needed to actually do their jobs?
    THAT is what pisses me off. This is just a symptom of spineless politicians. Don't want to take responsibility for building a highway? Make it a for-fee turnpike and introduce the heinous waste associated with it! Look at the infrastructure and jobs required for a turnpike vs. a typical freeway. Way to create government blubber! Seriously, which costs me? To pay for a freeway from tax dollars, or to pay for a freeway PLUS scores of toll plazas and thousands of jobs? Assholes. {Yes, I'm looking at the great state of Pennsylvania, whose gross freeway waste and delays I encounter every time I go to PA for a Christmas visit to me dear mother-in-law, which is happening again this year. }

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    It's called satire. Do you have that in America?
    Yes, we do.

  11. #11
    Don't see the problem and suspect it will be covered by insurance ... But I think only those 'at fault' should be liable.

  12. #12
    What if you didn't even call 911 to begin with? Often there are those good Samaritans that call when they witness an accident.

    Can you refuse their help? "No thanks, sir, I'll just bleed out here on 5th Avenue. Thanks!"

    EDIT: Around here they have tossed around billing people for ambulance rides due to the number of people calling 911 for minor injuries (like a bum knee) and hitching a ride to the ER because they can't afford to go to a doctor, and they plan on scooting out of the ER bill anyway due to their lack of finances. I don't think they ended up doing it though.

  13. #13
    In Victoria, Australia you get charged for ambulance rides. Or you can pay an annual membership fee in which case you don't then get charged.

  14. #14
    Ya, I believe that even in my area the insurance company will get billed for an ambulance ride; but the issue was people without insurance not being billed, or something.

    It's irritating to know, though, that taxes have been so mismanaged that paying extra fees for things like basic services and emergency services are becoming the norm everywhere.

  15. #15
    I'd rather those "at fault" pay bills than have it lumped into general taxation.

    Same as yachters who regularly get rescued as sea. Search and Rescue should charge them.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,435
    Insurance here covers ambulance rides if you need it (and that includes self induced alcohol reasons).

    It would seem sensible if the insurance pays it and then sues the party at fault for it. Isn't that how vehicle damage works too? You get your car fixed, insurance pays you, and they get the money from whoever caused it.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  17. #17
    Yes it is, good point

    The problem with that is when you have Hit&Run, other party has no insurance etc, etc - but still, no reason to go against that trend.

  18. #18
    Florida is a little different from what I understand. When my Saturn was rear ended I got a check from the other person's insurance company. All my insurance company did was muke sure the other insurance contacted me and that the other insurance took care of the damages. No Fault insurance comes into play somehow as well.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,435
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yes it is, good point

    The problem with that is when you have Hit&Run, other party has no insurance etc, etc - but still, no reason to go against that trend.
    If they have no insurance they're sued to bankruptcy, right? Get at much back as possible. I know that happens when the other guy's insurance doesn't cover (e.g. when they are drunk).

    H&R is risk of the insurer, I think. Calculated in your premiums.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  20. #20
    I believe most insurers here you lose your "no claims bonus" if hit by an uninsured driver.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Catgrrl View Post
    Around here they have tossed around billing people for ambulance rides due to the number of people calling 911 for minor injuries (like a bum knee) and hitching a ride to the ER because they can't afford to go to a doctor, and they plan on scooting out of the ER bill anyway due to their lack of finances. I don't think they ended up doing it though.
    People on Medicaid used to have taxi rides to the hospital reimbursed, even if they just had an ear ache. I think they've started rejecting those claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catgrrl View Post
    It's irritating to know, though, that taxes have been so mismanaged that paying extra fees for things like basic services and emergency services are becoming the norm everywhere.
    Bingo.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Catgrrl View Post
    EDIT: Around here they have tossed around billing people for ambulance rides due to the number of people calling 911 for minor injuries (like a bum knee) and hitching a ride to the ER because they can't afford to go to a doctor, and they plan on scooting out of the ER bill anyway due to their lack of finances. I don't think they ended up doing it though.
    That's simple. You can charge them with fraud, can collect through small claims court. EMTs can be allowed to reject minor injuries.

  23. #23
    I think people have been getting around this by claiming shortness of breath or chest pain. EMTs won't deny someone a ride to the ER; they have to be cautious in case there really is a problem. Especially around here when you have volunteer EMTs mixed in with the few full time employed ones.

    I would guess if someone did it habitually then the EMTs would refuse to take them. I dunno. My dad was a volunteer and even though some people called enough that they knew some of these people by first name, they still would take them to the hospital so they wouldn't be liable if the person really was having trouble. (This was 10 years ago so I'm sure with budget cuts things are different now)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •