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Thread: How do you scale waste collection?

  1. #1

    Default How do you scale waste collection?

    The real innovation here seems to be scaling the waste collection and effectively processing it at scale.

    This particular town seems to have an unusually high amount of waste wood (it must come from somewhere). And regular fossil fuel transit for food to poop and materials to discard is certainly part of this energy system.

    But I'm intrigued at the process of prioritizing and collecting waste at a scale sufficient to process and yield enough energy.

    December 10, 2010
    Using Waste, Swedish City Shrinks Its Fossil Fuel Use

    By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL

    KRISTIANSTAD, Sweden — When this city vowed a decade ago to wean itself from fossil fuels, it was a lofty aspiration, like zero deaths from traffic accidents or the elimination of childhood obesity.

    But Kristianstad has already crossed a crucial threshold: the city and surrounding county, with a population of 80,000, essentially use no oil, natural gas or coal to heat homes and businesses, even during the long frigid winters. It is a complete reversal from 20 years ago, when all of their heat came from fossil fuels.

    But this area in southern Sweden, best known as the home of Absolut vodka, has not generally substituted solar panels or wind turbines for the traditional fuels it has forsaken. Instead, as befits a region that is an epicenter of farming and food processing, it generates energy from a motley assortment of ingredients like potato peels, manure, used cooking oil, stale cookies and pig intestines.

    A hulking 10-year-old plant on the outskirts of Kristianstad uses a biological process to transform the detritus into biogas, a form of methane. That gas is burned to create heat and electricity, or is refined as a fuel for cars.

    Once the city fathers got into the habit of harnessing power locally, they saw fuel everywhere: Kristianstad also burns gas emanating from an old landfill and sewage ponds, as well as wood waste from flooring factories and tree prunings.

    Over the last five years, many European countries have increased their reliance on renewable energy, from wind farms to hydroelectric dams, because fossil fuels are expensive on the Continent and their overuse is, effectively, taxed by the European Union’s emissions trading system.

    But for many agricultural regions, a crucial component of the renewable energy mix has become gas extracted from biomass like farm and food waste. In Germany alone, about 5,000 biogas systems generate power, in many cases on individual farms.

    Kristianstad has gone further, harnessing biogas for an across-the-board regional energy makeover that has halved its fossil fuel use and reduced the city’s carbon dioxide emissions by one-quarter in the last decade.

    “It’s a much more secure energy supply — we didn’t want to buy oil anymore from the Middle East or Norway,” said Lennart Erfors, the engineer who is overseeing the transition in this colorful city of 18th-century row houses. “And it has created jobs in the energy sector.” [Ed -- Yeah, damn Norwegians, eh?]

    In the United States, biogas systems are rare. There are now 151 biomass digesters in the country, most of them small and using only manure, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. The E.P.A. estimated that installing such plants would be feasible at about 8,000 farms.

    So far in the United States, such projects have been limited by high initial costs, scant government financing and the lack of a business model. There is no supply network for moving manure to a centralized plant and no outlet to sell the biogas generated.

    Still, a number of states and companies are considering new investment.

    Last month, two California utilities, Southern California Gas and San Diego Gas & Electric, filed for permission with the state’s Public Utilities Commission to build plants in California to turn organic waste from farms and gas from water treatment plants into biogas that would feed into the state’s natural-gas pipelines after purification.

    Using biogas would help the utilities meet requirements in California and many other states to generate a portion of their power using renewable energy within the coming decade.

    Both natural gas and biogas create emissions when burned, but far less than coal and oil do. And unlike natural gas, which is pumped from deep underground, biogas counts as a renewable energy source: it is made from biological waste that in many cases would otherwise decompose in farm fields or landfills and yield no benefit at all, releasing heat-trapping methane into the atmosphere and contributing to global warming.

    This fall, emissaries from Wisconsin’s Bioenergy Initiative toured German biogas programs to help formulate a plan to develop the industry. “Biogas is Wisconsin’s opportunity fuel,” said Gary Radloff, the initiative’s Midwest policy director.

    Like Kristianstad, California and Wisconsin produce a bounty of waste from food processing and dairy farms but an inadequate supply of fossil fuel to meet their needs. Another plus is that biogas plants can devour vast quantities of manure that would otherwise pollute the air and could affect water supplies.

    In Kristianstad, old fossil fuel technologies coexist awkwardly alongside their biomass replacements. The type of tanker truck that used to deliver heating oil now delivers wood pellets, the major heating fuel in the city’s more remote areas. Across from a bustling Statoil gas station is a modest new commercial biogas pumping station owned by the renewables company Eon Energy.

    The start-up costs, covered by the city and through Swedish government grants, have been considerable: the centralized biomass heating system cost $144 million, including constructing a new incineration plant, laying networks of pipes, replacing furnaces and installing generators.

    But officials say the payback has already been significant: Kristianstad now spends about $3.2 million each year to heat its municipal buildings rather than the $7 million it would spend if it still relied on oil and electricity. It fuels its municipal cars, buses and trucks with biogas fuel, avoiding the need to purchase nearly half a million gallons of diesel or gas each year.

    The operations at the biogas and heating plants bring in cash, because farms and factories pay fees to dispose of their waste and the plants sell the heat, electricity and car fuel they generate.

    Kristianstad’s energy makeover is rooted in oil price shocks of the 1980s, when the city could barely afford to heat its schools and hospitals. To save on fuel consumption, the city began laying heating pipes to form an underground heating grid — so-called district heating.

    Such systems use one or more central furnaces to heat water or produce steam that is fed into the network. It is far more efficient to pump heat into a system that can warm an entire city than to heat buildings individually with boilers.

    District heating systems can generate heat from any fuel source, and like New York City’s, Kristianstad’s initially relied on fossil fuel. But after Sweden became the first country to impose a tax on carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels, in 1991, Kristianstad started looking for substitutes.

    By 1993, it was taking in and burning local wood wastes, and in 1999, it began relying on heat generated from the new biogas plant. Some buildings that are too remote to be connected to the district heating system have been fitted with individual furnaces that use tiny pellets that are also made from wood waste.

    Burning wood in this form is more efficient and produces less carbon dioxide than burning logs does; such heating has given birth to a booming pellet industry in northern Europe. Government subsidies underwrite purchases of pellet furnaces by homeowners and businesses; pellet-fueled heat costs half as much as oil, said Mr. Erfors, the engineer.

    Having dispensed with fossil fuels for heating, Kristianstad is moving on to other challenges. City planners hope that by 2020 total local emissions will be 40 percent lower than they were in 1990, and that running the city will require no fossil fuel and produce no emissions at all.

    Transportation now accounts for 60 percent of fossil fuel use, so city planners want drivers to use cars that run on local biogas, which municipal vehicles already do. That will require increasing production of the fuel.

    Kristianstad is looking into building satellite biogas plants for outlying areas and expanding its network of underground biogas pipes to allow the construction of more filling stations. At the moment, this is something of a chicken-and-egg problem: even though biogas fuel costs about 20 percent less than gasoline, consumers are reluctant to spend $32,000 (about $4,000 more than for a conventional car) on a biogas or dual-fuel car until they are certain that the network will keep growing.

    “A tank is enough to get you around the region for the day, but do you have to plan ahead,” Martin Risberg, a county engineer, said as he filled a biogas Volvo.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/11/sc.../11fossil.html

  2. #2
    The start-up costs, covered by the city and through Swedish government grants, have been considerable: the centralized biomass heating system cost $144 million, including constructing a new incineration plant, laying networks of pipes, replacing furnaces and installing generators.
    Some buildings that are too remote to be connected to the district heating system have been fitted with individual furnaces that use tiny pellets that are also made from wood waste.

    Burning wood in this form is more efficient and produces less carbon dioxide than burning logs does; such heating has given birth to a booming pellet industry in northern Europe. Government subsidies underwrite purchases of pellet furnaces by homeowners and businesses
    even though biogas fuel costs about 20 percent less than gasoline, consumers are reluctant to spend $32,000 (about $4,000 more than for a conventional car) on a biogas or dual-fuel car until they are certain that the network will keep growing.
    The US would have trouble getting people to agree to such massive government grants for start-up, let alone subsidies for pellet furnaces or biogas/dual-fuel cars. Too bad, because we could definitely do this kind of thing.

    There's already a small composite-pellet home furnace industry in PA, and one pellet can heat a 2,000 sf home for 24 hours (or so I've been told by a guy who has one). And if I'm not mistaken, Finland also uses underground district heating from steam (?)

  3. #3
    I don't think so -- I can see it happening either in a small place or a larger one too. A few high profile successes over here and people would agree to them. It's succeeded over there after all.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dread
    an unusually high amount of waste wood (it must come from somewhere)
    It says right in the article that they have a flooring factory, and tree prunings are everywhere in Scandinavia.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  5. #5
    I know -- what I'm saying is that's sort of unique. Other areas would have to find a similarly-abundant waste product in their areas to make it work.

  6. #6
    Ohh. Well, if we moved towards packing materials that're more biological, those could be burned. You'd get fire"wood" along with your McMeal. Or kebab. Whatever.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  7. #7
    We have tons of wood by-products, from wood pulp to tree trimmings. We've been recycling cardboard and paper products for decades. We'd have to fight the Waste Management people who've been making their profit this way. They lobbied state and local agencies to mandate recycling, that's the only way it worked. There are now companies that will recycle any product en masse (think juice boxes or waxed paper milk cartons), pay postage to have it sent to them, where they turn it into something else.

    We have tons of farm waste, from corn cobs and stalks to manure. Around here they partner with other business for waste by-products (like tree trimmers), mix the stuff into huge compost mounds, and sell it to landscapers as humus or mulch. All these guys make money from our waste, and would expect to be in the supply chain somehow. So it's not really a scale or distribution hurdle, but a competition one.

    And we all know how the US fights any gummint guiding subsidies, especially for anything related to energy. Currently our natural gas and coal industries (and corn-ethanol) have a lot of clout and power, so their lobbyists would object to the gummint choosing bio waste over them. So it's also a political issue. We don't like to follow what the SSSocialists do, see.

  8. #8
    A lot of the energy companies do research into this stuff, they would be more likely to be first in line for a subsidy.

    I wonder if we would have to educate people to sort their "compostable/combustible" trash from the "inert/non-combustible" trash. Or some fashion like that.

  9. #9
    My town's getting into using household biowaste in a big way. Seems to be working very well, everyone got special paper garbage bags and containers and we have recycling stations within a half minute's walk so it's not exactly a chore.

    I know that there are people in the US that've gotten started with making biogas from manure with the help of gummint subsidies, not sure why it hasn't caught on more.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I know that there are people in the US that've gotten started with making biogas from manure with the help of gummint subsidies, not sure why it hasn't caught on more.
    Can't afford the subsidies. It's still inefficient and there's too much competition for the "easy" waste as GGT mentioned... Otherwise, it'd be everywhere. Europe can pay more of the global warming tab if they don't want to pay so much of the world security tab.

  11. #11
    aggie, if we all stopped buying oil from the middle-east, maybe we wouldn't get involved in wars over there. Isn't it rather stupid to subsidize the oil countries, then end up fighting them?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    aggie, if we all stopped buying oil from the middle-east, maybe we wouldn't get involved in wars over there. Isn't it rather stupid to subsidize the oil countries, then end up fighting them?
    Notwithstanding the many assumptions you made about war in the middle east and buying oil (oil buyers are not subsidizing the oil producing countries, for instance...), it's as you yourself said a question of available resources. That area in Sweden has tons of agricultural factories and a relatively low population. You can't apply that to the US as a whole.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    Can't afford the subsidies. It's still inefficient... Otherwise, it'd be everywhere.
    Er, substantiate this, pls

    Europe can pay more of the global warming tab if they don't want to pay so much of the world security tab.
    Hmmph I thought the US was increasing world insecurity
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    That area in Sweden has tons of agricultural factories and a relatively low population. You can't apply that to the US as a whole.
    I'm sure you can find many areas in the US where there is an excess of animal-poop and human garbage.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  15. #15
    Indeed, we have entire lakes of animal waste here because we are a commercial agriculture exporter. Hell, our farmers get subsidized...I find it hard to believe it's too much of a stretch to tap their giant lakes of shit.

    Though actually I think someone in my family does work in that field, I may see him today I should ask him...

  16. #16
    Most of your pig farms could probably be run on the pig-poop they produce
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    Notwithstanding the many assumptions you made about war in the middle east and buying oil (oil buyers are not subsidizing the oil producing countries, for instance...),
    OPEC nations most definitely made their wealth from oil. Iran and Iraq included. Oil that the US eats like candy, or crack. 'Nuff said.

    it's as you yourself said a question of available resources. That area in Sweden has tons of agricultural factories and a relatively low population. You can't apply that to the US as a whole.
    I also said it's a competition and political issue in the US, more than a "scaling", distribution, or logistics problem. Of course the US could apply this kind of waste-energy loop, regionally. But we'd have to have a comprehensive national energy policy, instead of our mish-mash of special interest groups.

    I love the irony, though. The largest purchaser of chicken is....McDonald's. That's a ton of chicken poop and fowl fat. So much lard that we have small groups of geeks making biofuel collected from fast food restaurants. Nerds converting cars to biofuels in their garages. What a McDeal.

  18. #18
    OPEC <> subsidy.

    Even with our many farms, it's still not enough to power the entire US and replace oil consumption like that area in Sweden.

  19. #19
    who on earth insisted on 100% oil/poop substitution and why???

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    OPEC <> subsidy.
    Main Entry: subsidize
    Part of Speech: verb
    Definition: give money to get started
    Synonyms: angel*, back, bankroll, contribute, endow, finance, fund, grubstake, help, juice*, pick up the check, pick up the tab, prime the pump, promote, put up the money for, sponsor, stake, support, underwrite

    Even with our many farms, it's still not enough to power the entire US and replace oil consumption like that area in Sweden.
    Landfills. Vertical algae farms. Composting toilets. Use your imagination.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    who on earth insisted on 100% oil/poop substitution and why???
    The Swedes. Damn them, damn them all!

    *gets carried away by Interpol shortly after writing this*

  22. #22
    Just spoke to my relative today who has been working on some of this. Though he's mainly focused on turning the pig/cow crap into fertilizer for farms within a certain radius. Most farms get their fertilizer from somewhere else, and then just store the feces nearby because they can't invest in processing it into fertilizer when the "fertilizer farms" produce it so cheaply.

    One of his company's ideas if they can make those investments, set up regional fertilizer distribution networks and sell the poop-cum-fertilizer. The farmer with the shit pools also win because they stop having to maintain these ecological and financial shit-piles on their property.

  23. #23
    Right, present that to Dow Chemical, or any other Big Ag fertilizer company with big pockets. Dekalb, Monsanto, etc. Then take the plan to your legislator. Farmers not buying chemical fertilizers? ha ha. Might as well be Amish that plow pig and cow poop into their crops.

  24. #24
    If anything, they would benefit. But they aren't nimble enough. It's not like this is a new idea after all, it's just an emerging market.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    If anything, they would benefit. But they aren't nimble enough. It's not like this is a new idea after all, it's just an emerging market.
    Oh, they are "nimble" enough. What makes you think they aren't?

  26. #26
    Not to put words in Dread's mouth, but I think he's saying that because they aren't investing (edit: forgot a word) because they aren't "nimble".. or, in other words, big companies are stupid when it comes to doing things outside of their area of expertise, sometimes even marginally outside.
    Last edited by agamemnus; 12-13-2010 at 08:14 AM.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    Not to put words in Dread's mouth, but I think he's saying that because they aren't investing they aren't "nimble".. or, in other words, big companies are stupid when it comes to doing things outside of their area of expertise, sometimes even marginally outside.
    Too bad, so sad. Large private corps and small business being wimpy. Waiting for those evil gummint "subsidies" or tax breaks. Experts deferring their true value in exchange for profit promises, even paying lobbyists to make it so. SSSocialists showing Capitalists the Freeedom of Science and un-conventional wisdom in self-sustainability. Who's buying power, and what does power mean?

    How would we "scale" that?

  28. #28
    Exactly, large organizations tend to be scared of/blindsided by big change. They usually aren't willing to cannibalize their core business to grow a new revenue stream (sort of like what Netflix has done with streaming videos vs. DVDs in the mail).

    But based on this and other posts...GGT, bedtime for both of us? Well, yes for me. Not sure about you but I have work in the capitalist system tomorrow.

  29. #29
    Probably a farm community. But still, you'd be surprised at the fraction of household waste that is biodegradable. Subtract our recycling and composting, well over half of ours is probably biodegradable.

  30. #30

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