Question For My Fellow Americans

[EyeKhan]

At the risk of being too vague (sorry Illusions, I know you hate that) I'm wondering what you all think our nation is Doing (note cap), or maybe a better term, should be doing and perhaps a contrast of the two if you have time. Or in other perhaps vaguer words, what our Nation is for. There has to be radically different ideas of this out there. Two people on opposite sides of health care reform can't possibly have the same concept of national purpose on their mind, can they? What about opposite sides of the Iraq War, and not just now, but in the beginning as well. Or opposite sides of Gitmo, or extraordinary rendition, or the Stimulus Package, or Gay Rights, Bank Bailouts, Auto Bailouts, Stem Cells, etc...

In the context of how you feel about all the variety of things the government does or doesn't do, should or shouldn't do, can you summarize what it is, holisticly, in a nut shell, the government's role in your life and in the world ought to be? And or what it IS, if you feel like it.

If you're not American, feel free to add your own idea for you respective country. I'm interested to see the differences.

[Hazir]

Funny that you ask this question today. I was thinking about opening a topic about what I think about the USA earlier today. The general idea about that was that the way I see the US is that it's a beast that looks deceptively familiar but that at the same time is entirely different than what I as a European percieve as normal. That very often makes it difficult for outsiders (including me) to understand it.

I have sort of resigned to the idea that the US finds its solutions because these solutions are what best fits it. So maybe 20% of Americans have limited or no easy access to quality healthcare; if that's the way that fits the American psyche, who am I, as a non-American to sit in judgement?

It may be a bit different if the US is walking around the world with a big stick, but there again all we need to put an end to unilateralism is get our own asses moving and start building an economy and armed forces to make DC think twice. It's not the Americans' fault that we're too weak to stand up to them. And unlike a lot of other people I don't think we're necessarily of higher morals just because we don't have the means to kick ass any longer.

[rumrunner]

It's like having two drivers in a single car. Both want to end up at the same destination, but have different opinions of the best route. So the car, like the U.S., goes swerving all over the road. Sometimes they get where they're going, sometimes not. Either way, someone is pissed off.

[EyeKhan]

It's like having two drivers in a single car. Both want to end up at the same destination, but have different opinions of the best route. So the car, like the U.S., goes swerving all over the road. Sometimes they get where they're going, sometimes not. Either way, someone is pissed off.

I'm not so sure all the drivers want to go to the same destination. That's what I'm sorta fishing for with this thread.

[rumrunner]

I'm not so sure all the drivers want to go to the same destination. That's what I'm sorta fishing for with this thread.

yeah, it explained, very simplistically, the two-party style of governance. as far as what I think the country should be doing, could be doing. End poverty? Cheesey, but nice if it could happen. Abolish the shameful acts of the various intelligence agencies that serve to protect us but often incite hostility towards us. Probably would just leave the doors open, making us more vulnerable. I think most people want the same things, generally speaking. Security, prosperity, liberty, those promises of "The Declaration..." If you're asking how these can be achieved, through honesty, integrity,and diligence, in all aspects of the American experience. I want every one who wants to work to work there asses off day in/day out. I want those unable to work to have a contribution in some other way. I want my flying car, but that has nothing to with this. Anyone who refuses to be a part of the solution can find another pocket to pick. This isn't bashing those receiving public assistance, I've been there. But it is a call to the powers that be to get it in gear.
edit: I'm to lazy tonight to fix the glaring grammatical errors in this post, sorry.

[Hazir]

Seems to me you're not getting much of a reply. Maybe you should change the question into the actual one? What is the raison d'être of this nation?

Although then you might get that same old answer about your nation being a nation of emigrants in pursuit of liberty and happiness who never will sit happy in a well organised state. Civilians because they couldn't avoid it, but deep down inside just rebels without a cause.

[GGT]

Vague and open-ended but I'll bite. Reminds me of JFK saying, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

I go on the assumption that those goals are similar to what I can do for myself, not what others can do for me. Or what I can do for my nuclear family and extended family (community).

Gets tricky tho, since I can presumably keep my home safe, but I can't police a whole city or defend our nation's borders. I can teach my kids, but only if I'm well educated, and comprehensive education doesn't happen in an isolated vacuum. I can manage my money but I can't operate an entire banking system.

From micro to macro, maybe that's the key? And as our world gets more complicated and intertwined, I have to rely on government and law, even some planned distribution of wealth, for certain civilized things of common cause.

[']['ear]

But there is a certain level of social responsibility that seems to be lacking. On three different occasions in my life I have interfered with a bicycle theft. Everybody acts like I'm crazy--you could have been killed! What the hell else was I supposed to do? Sit around like a Kitty Genovese witness?

Then again, now I'm a decrepit old fart, maybe not.

I think there are a lot of "patriots" who don't put their money where their mouth is to lead responsible, contributing lives. The JFK quote is apt.

[Being]

Since the question refers to us as a nation doesn't that preclude dicussion of topics that divide us? Might be easier to build a list of things that unite us and go from there.

1. We share the same borders
2. We share the same central gaovernment


So what else unites us into a nation?

[Nessus]

But there is a certain level of social responsibility that seems to be lacking. On three different occasions in my life I have interfered with a bicycle theft. Everybody acts like I'm crazy--you could have been killed! What the hell else was I supposed to do? Sit around like a Kitty Genovese witness?

Then again, now I'm a decrepit old fart, maybe not.

I think there are a lot of "patriots" who don't put their money where their mouth is to lead responsible, contributing lives. The JFK quote is apt.

Speaking of Ms. Genovese's unfortunate encounter with an African American, have you read SuperFreakonomics? There's a bit about her story in there that challenges the popularized Watchemen-esque view of the events.

[EyeKhan]

What led me to as this question is the simple assumption that in the End, the majority of political factions are more or less trying to achieve the same overall Goal for America, but just believe in different means to get there. By Goal I'm talking, very generally, about what our country is for. Not just the government, but the whole apparatus of American civilization. But I'm not sure that assumption is correct. So I thought I'd ask.

Here's a simplistic example of how the 'goal' might differ. Interestingly they overlap a great deal:

a. Humanism - the Government, the Economy, the Social Institutions and Everything exist soley to provide humanity with a means to achieve a reasonably safe and comfortable lifestyle and the opportunity to spend your life doing whatever you find rewarding. Furthermore, we should be seeking to nurture these goals elsewhere in the world.

b. Progress - the GESI&E exists to allow human civilization to progress. Toward what? I'm not sure, maybe a. above? Maybe something more, like an end to human suffering including voluntary immortality (Transhumanist Progression?), a more perfect spiritual relationship with God (Religous Progression?), an objective understanding of the universe and everything in it (Scientific Progression?), a civilization that is both comfortable and nurturing but can exist in the long term without destroying the habitablity of the earth (Sustainability Progression?) In any case, our nation should be structured so that we can proceed toward one or more of these goals.

c. Dominance - our nation as a collection of people can never be safe to pursue any goal if we do not have a certain level of military and economic dominance. It is in the nature of humanity to abuse the weaker - so if our military isn't strongest, we will eventually be abused, taken advantage of, marginalized, etc. If our economy isn't the strongest, we will eventually experience the same. Therefore first and foremost, out nation should be working toward attaining and ensuring long term dominance so that we can be secure to do other things.

Ideas? Anyone?

Another way to ask it: When you vote for a Republican that you want to remove regulation from corporations, cut spending on social safety nets, spend money on more sophisticated weapons, and be less accomodating to our competitors in global geopolitics, what goal for the nation do you have in mind? Is it simply that you personally want to be safe and have more money to spend? Arn't you less safe with fewer social safety nets? Could you be more safe if the government takes a more cooperative than aggressive geoplitical stance? Is spending on an ever more powerful military at some point a waste of money that won't make you all that safe anyway? With fewer safety nets, arn't you incentivizing crime in bad times?

Conservatives? Comments?

For my part I'm into the humanism thing and the progress thing. I think the function of our civilizaiton - and our nation as a subset of that - is to provide a just framework through which everyone can have their basic needs met for the long term and anyone willing to work hard can get very comfortable and achieve whatever life goals they set. Further, I think one of the government's goals should be to use the resources of the nation for projects that no other social entity could or would accomplish on its own. Like the Hubble Space Telescope for very specific example. The Human Genome Project. The Internet. CERN is a good example in Europe (global project, that, right?) We should be progressing toward puzzling out the secrets of the universe and all that goes with it.