Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Where the Liberal West Meets the Traditional East ...

  1. #1

    Default Where the Liberal West Meets the Traditional East ...

    ... the battle for the soul of a country is being fought.

    Turkish academics sacked over porn dissertation project



    Three academics at one of Turkey's top universities have been sacked after a student made a pornographic film for his dissertation project.


    Bilgi University in Istanbul has shut its film department, and police are looking into possible criminal charges.

    A number of other academics have protested against the response.

    The incident has drawn attention to the clash between traditional values and the sometimes experimental arts and lifestyles practised in Istanbul.

    When film student Deniz Ozgun first broached his idea for a dissertation project with his professors, they were hesitant.

    He wanted to make a pornographic film, he said, but also to reveal how synthetic the sexual scenes in it were.

    They told him the project needed to make a stronger intellectual point. Evidently he did not succeed - his film was marked a fail.

    None of this caused a stir. But after Mr Ozgun gave an interview to a news magazine, describing how he made the film on campus, his project caused an uproar.

    Parents wanted to know what kinds of things went on at Bilgi, one of Turkey's most prestigious private universities.

    And, say some academics there, the Board of Education put pressure on the university to act.

    As well as the firing of the three academics - who are now being investigated by the police - the entire Communications Faculty has been shut down.

    Mr Ozgun, and the former student who starred in his film, have gone into hiding.

    A number of academics have protested against this draconian response.

    Neither the university nor the government is making any comment.

    Bilgi has a reputation as one of the most liberal universities in Turkey - it was among the first to ignore the ban on Muslim women wearing headscarves on campus. But this issue has clearly touched a nerve.

    People from different walks of life in Turkey now hold strikingly divergent values.

    In much of the country they still adhere to strict moral codes, in which alcohol is banned, clothing is conservative and sex never discussed openly.

    Politicians in the governing Justice and Development Party (AKP) largely subscribe to this view.

    But in Istanbul many people have very liberal attitudes to sex, alcohol and the arts. Indeed you can find films, plays and art exhibitions every bit as provocative and experimental as in any other European city.

    Last September, guests attending new exhibitions at three art galleries in central Istanbul were attacked by local residents enraged by the sight of them drinking alcohol on the street outside.

    They might have been even more enraged had they seen the content of the exhibitions, which challenged a number of taboo topics.

    A publisher who translated erotic European literature was also put on trial last year, but eventually acquitted.

    Turkey is now the world's fifteenth biggest economy; its people are more prosperous and more exposed to outside influences than ever before.

    Boundaries are constantly being tested. But when they are, sometimes there is a powerful reaction.
    I can't see situations like this helping Turkey's European Union aspirations one bit.

    With such a sizeable traditional muslim population, I feel this will take a generation at least before such repression of ideas is a thing of the past, and the country can move toward more liberal ideologies, and a shared future with the West becomes possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  2. #2
    Not sure if Hazir agrees with me on this, but I've stopped buying the argument that Turkey is going in this direction because their EU membership was delayed.

    As their democracy has opened up a bit, it's become clear that some things need to come out of the woodwork, EG the reflexive need to censor. Then again, do you suppose there are some conservative Catholic countries like Poland where this would also be a controversy?

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    12,313
    What people generally don't understand that Turkey is a country that does - not really - have a muslim majority as Westerners would understand it. Look at the big websites and you will see that up to 98% of its citizens are counted as muslims. But when you start to look at it closer you see that is a rather artifical number. For starters, huge numbers of young Turks have got no real affinity with religion at all, they just don't go through the hassle of removing it from their ID because that might upset their parents.

    Then we have up a portion of 40 of those muslims who have an idea of Islam - officially - that is so divergent of mainstream sunni Islam that scores of Sunnis contest that these people can even be considered muslim at all. And we're not just talking about small hardly noticable things, but big differences like rejecting the need for going to mosque, rejecting the idea that a muslim has to fast a month a year, that women have to wear headscarves etc etc etc. All these 'obvious signs of Islam' are rejected by these people on the basis of their religious believes.

    That does not mean there isn't a strong conservative stream in Turkey that has an Islamist colour to it. And certainly enough these people have gained some influence over the last years. But the main reason why their decency concerns are acceptable to the general public is that these people also pulled Turkey out of its economical rut, and that they - at least at first, and probably still - a lot less corrupt than their predecessors. Corruption in Turkey has really seriously gone down. It has become less common and less acceptable to pay bribes to officials to get things done.

    Now, about this case. I don't know too much about it even though Bilgi university is just down the street. But what I do know is that Bilgi is a privately funded university and as such not really answers to the state. I very much doubt that the reaction of Bilgi has got to do with anything else than the fact that parents with money might think a university that co-produces pornography for whatever reason is not a good place for their children to be. That would be true for the average Koran-thumper and for the average parent anywhere.

    As for the other case quoted the attack on visitors of a gallery for no other reason than that they were drinking alcohol in the street; that is a crass simplification of what really happened. First let me say that I think that the attack on these people was illegal and should not have happened. The police could have been called and that should have been the end of it.

    Now the background; The Tophane incident happened in the neighbourhood of Tophane, which at the beginning of the 20th century used to be a middle class neighbourhood that then after the 50s went through a steep decline of several decades. The socio-economic make up turned into low-income uneducated immigrants from the country-side who were attracted to Tophane for no other reason that housing there was extremely cheap. That all started to change about 15 years ago when people realised that Tophane being right next door to Beyoglu and Galata (which were the focal point of a city rehabilitation plan) had a huge potential. People with money started to buy up houses, renovate them and slowly but very certain rents started to move up. The poor residents of Tophane are effectively pushed out of their neighbourhoods by a process of gentrification. The next stop for these people will probably be a flat somewhere 15km away from the center of town.

    Mix into this something that is one of the most toxic things in Turkish society; a disdain for ordinary people who work and have a decent living but aren't part of the crowd that can afford to spend their money on anything else than a roof over their head and food in their belly. That is quite breathtaking when you first encounter it. In one of the reports I read about Tophane I heard that one of the things that had set off the attack was a remark by one of the visitors of the gallery about a woman with a headscarf who passed them. Supposedly the following was said 'Look at that, how are we ever going to be a full part of Europe as long as we've got people who wear those silly headscarves'. Now, like I have indicated, I don't know if that was really said. But I know Turkey well enough to know that it easily could have been said. I also know that it isn't the first idea of lower-class people in this city to call the police if they have a tiff with their neighbours.

    Well, to sum it all up; I don't think things look all that dark for Turkey in the long run. Once the opposition parties get their act together and start forming a real alternative to AKP rule (which will happen) it will be quite ok.

    As things stand people overhere are more upset about new legislation supposed to bring the Turkish Criminal Code more in line with European (not EU) standards has resulted in dozens of Hizbullah murderers and mobsters being released from custody because the high court hasn't been able to rule in a timely fashion.
    Congratulations America

  4. #4
    Eurocentric views of the world use to regard other cultures as inferior.
    Unfortunately for US and Europe, Europeans and Americans are being latinamericanized by banks, so it is unlikely that Eurocentric culture could prevail for too long. It is very likely that asian cultures may impose themselves in the world in the next decades. Do you want to blame someone? Blame the banksters.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  5. #5
    Eurocentric views of the world use to regard other cultures as inferior.
    Unfortunately for US and Europe, Europeans and Americans are being latinamericanized by banks, so it is unlikely that Eurocentric culture could prevail for too long. It is very likely that asian cultures may impose themselves in the world in the next decades. Do you want to blame someone? Blame the banksters.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    12,313
    When I look out of my window in Istanbul I see Europe. Turkey has been a European power for centuries, then a republic with a European identity. What is your point?
    Congratulations America

  7. #7
    Hazir, thanks for the analysis. Just to play devil's advocate, do you think your view may be colored by the time you spend in Istanbul versus other areas that are the voter based of the AKP?

    I understand (and agree) with your assessment of a decrepit and discriminatory upper class. But I think the resentment that kind of class breeds can be pretty toxic and push people towards mass social movements that they wouldn't otherwise support.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    12,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Hazir, thanks for the analysis. Just to play devil's advocate, do you think your view may be colored by the time you spend in Istanbul versus other areas that are the voter based of the AKP?

    I understand (and agree) with your assessment of a decrepit and discriminatory upper class. But I think the resentment that kind of class breeds can be pretty toxic and push people towards mass social movements that they wouldn't otherwise support.
    Well, strangely enough the council of Beyoglu, where I live is controlled by the AKP. Narrowly, but still. Istanbul , most of it anyway, is part of the voterbase of AKP. For a lot of people overhere the PM is still remembered as a pretty effective mayor of the city. I'd have to move to a city like Izmir if I'd want to move out of the part of Turkey where AKP has a solid majority.

    By the way, AKP is (I think) at the peak of it's power as we speak. I don't think they're going to grow any bigger than they are right now. The Kurdish voters are quite disappointed about the way AKP has gone about the Kurdish question and that may cause a lot of them to defect. Maybe enough to force the AKP to form a coalition again after the next elections. Seeing another party on top is not going to happen untill the other parties start to clean up their acts and make the impression they can do more than be the party of 'no'.
    Congratulations America

  9. #9
    Peak of power is an interesting thought, I hadn't considered that. Alright, let's mark the calendar here and see where things go.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    12,313
    I read an article about this conflict in an the Hurriyet Daily News; what they drew attention to is that Bilgi is trying to rid itself of members of the faculty who are unionised.
    Congratulations America

  11. #11
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/ma...agewanted=1&hp

    A well-written "biography" of an architect of Turkey's foreign policy.
    Hope is the denial of reality

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •