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Thread: How to raise the next Columbine shooter

  1. #1

    Default How to raise the next Columbine shooter

    They should call this essay "How to raise the next Columbine shooter." I'm all for academics and discipline, but holy hell.

    Anyone think there are some good points here? I think there may be some too, but I'm curious what other people here see in this.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...528698754.html

    THE SATURDAY ESSAY
    JANUARY 8, 2011

    Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior

    Can a regimen of no playdates, no TV, no computer games and hours of music practice create happy kids? And what happens when they fight back?

    By AMY CHUA

    A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math whizzes and music prodigies, what it's like inside the family, and whether they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I've done it. Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:

    • attend a sleepover

    • have a playdate

    • be in a school play

    • complain about not being in a school play

    • watch TV or play computer games

    • choose their own extracurricular activities

    • get any grade less than an A

    • not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

    • play any instrument other than the piano or violin

    • not play the piano or violin.

    I'm using the term "Chinese mother" loosely. I know some Korean, Indian, Jamaican, Irish and Ghanaian parents who qualify too. Conversely, I know some mothers of Chinese heritage, almost always born in the West, who are not Chinese mothers, by choice or otherwise. I'm also using the term "Western parents" loosely. Western parents come in all varieties.

    All the same, even when Western parents think they're being strict, they usually don't come close to being Chinese mothers. For example, my Western friends who consider themselves strict make their children practice their instruments 30 minutes every day. An hour at most. For a Chinese mother, the first hour is the easy part. It's hours two and three that get tough.

    Despite our squeamishness about cultural stereotypes, there are tons of studies out there showing marked and quantifiable differences between Chinese and Westerners when it comes to parenting. In one study of 50 Western American mothers and 48 Chinese immigrant mothers, almost 70% of the Western mothers said either that "stressing academic success is not good for children" or that "parents need to foster the idea that learning is fun." By contrast, roughly 0% of the Chinese mothers felt the same way. Instead, the vast majority of the Chinese mothers said that they believe their children can be "the best" students, that "academic achievement reflects successful parenting," and that if children did not excel at school then there was "a problem" and parents "were not doing their job." Other studies indicate that compared to Western parents, Chinese parents spend approximately 10 times as long every day drilling academic activities with their children. By contrast, Western kids are more likely to participate in sports teams.

    What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences. This often requires fortitude on the part of the parents because the child will resist; things are always hardest at the beginning, which is where Western parents tend to give up. But if done properly, the Chinese strategy produces a virtuous circle. Tenacious practice, practice, practice is crucial for excellence; rote repetition is underrated in America. Once a child starts to excel at something—whether it's math, piano, pitching or ballet—he or she gets praise, admiration and satisfaction. This builds confidence and makes the once not-fun activity fun. This in turn makes it easier for the parent to get the child to work even more.

    Chinese parents can get away with things that Western parents can't. Once when I was young—maybe more than once—when I was extremely disrespectful to my mother, my father angrily called me "garbage" in our native Hokkien dialect. It worked really well. I felt terrible and deeply ashamed of what I had done. But it didn't damage my self-esteem or anything like that. I knew exactly how highly he thought of me. I didn't actually think I was worthless or feel like a piece of garbage.

    As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me. When I mentioned that I had done this at a dinner party, I was immediately ostracized. One guest named Marcy got so upset she broke down in tears and had to leave early. My friend Susan, the host, tried to rehabilitate me with the remaining guests.

    The fact is that Chinese parents can do things that would seem unimaginable—even legally actionable—to Westerners. Chinese mothers can say to their daughters, "Hey fatty—lose some weight." By contrast, Western parents have to tiptoe around the issue, talking in terms of "health" and never ever mentioning the f-word, and their kids still end up in therapy for eating disorders and negative self-image. (I also once heard a Western father toast his adult daughter by calling her "beautiful and incredibly competent." She later told me that made her feel like garbage.)

    Chinese parents can order their kids to get straight As. Western parents can only ask their kids to try their best. Chinese parents can say, "You're lazy. All your classmates are getting ahead of you." By contrast, Western parents have to struggle with their own conflicted feelings about achievement, and try to persuade themselves that they're not disappointed about how their kids turned out.

    I've thought long and hard about how Chinese parents can get away with what they do. I think there are three big differences between the Chinese and Western parental mind-sets.

    First, I've noticed that Western parents are extremely anxious about their children's self-esteem. They worry about how their children will feel if they fail at something, and they constantly try to reassure their children about how good they are notwithstanding a mediocre performance on a test or at a recital. In other words, Western parents are concerned about their children's psyches. Chinese parents aren't. They assume strength, not fragility, and as a result they behave very differently.

    For example, if a child comes home with an A-minus on a test, a Western parent will most likely praise the child. The Chinese mother will gasp in horror and ask what went wrong. If the child comes home with a B on the test, some Western parents will still praise the child. Other Western parents will sit their child down and express disapproval, but they will be careful not to make their child feel inadequate or insecure, and they will not call their child "stupid," "worthless" or "a disgrace." Privately, the Western parents may worry that their child does not test well or have aptitude in the subject or that there is something wrong with the curriculum and possibly the whole school. If the child's grades do not improve, they may eventually schedule a meeting with the school principal to challenge the way the subject is being taught or to call into question the teacher's credentials.

    If a Chinese child gets a B—which would never happen—there would first be a screaming, hair-tearing explosion. The devastated Chinese mother would then get dozens, maybe hundreds of practice tests and work through them with her child for as long as it takes to get the grade up to an A.

    Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child can get them. If their child doesn't get them, the Chinese parent assumes it's because the child didn't work hard enough. That's why the solution to substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child. The Chinese parent believes that their child will be strong enough to take the shaming and to improve from it. (And when Chinese kids do excel, there is plenty of ego-inflating parental praise lavished in the privacy of the home.)

    Second, Chinese parents believe that their kids owe them everything. The reason for this is a little unclear, but it's probably a combination of Confucian filial piety and the fact that the parents have sacrificed and done so much for their children. (And it's true that Chinese mothers get in the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring, training, interrogating and spying on their kids.) Anyway, the understanding is that Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying them and making them proud.

    By contrast, I don't think most Westerners have the same view of children being permanently indebted to their parents. My husband, Jed, actually has the opposite view. "Children don't choose their parents," he once said to me. "They don't even choose to be born. It's parents who foist life on their kids, so it's the parents' responsibility to provide for them. Kids don't owe their parents anything. Their duty will be to their own kids." This strikes me as a terrible deal for the Western parent.

    Third, Chinese parents believe that they know what is best for their children and therefore override all of their children's own desires and preferences. That's why Chinese daughters can't have boyfriends in high school and why Chinese kids can't go to sleepaway camp. It's also why no Chinese kid would ever dare say to their mother, "I got a part in the school play! I'm Villager Number Six. I'll have to stay after school for rehearsal every day from 3:00 to 7:00, and I'll also need a ride on weekends." God help any Chinese kid who tried that one.

    Don't get me wrong: It's not that Chinese parents don't care about their children. Just the opposite. They would give up anything for their children. It's just an entirely different parenting model.

    Here's a story in favor of coercion, Chinese-style. Lulu was about 7, still playing two instruments, and working on a piano piece called "The Little White Donkey" by the French composer Jacques Ibert. The piece is really cute—you can just imagine a little donkey ambling along a country road with its master—but it's also incredibly difficult for young players because the two hands have to keep schizophrenically different rhythms.

    Lulu couldn't do it. We worked on it nonstop for a week, drilling each of her hands separately, over and over. But whenever we tried putting the hands together, one always morphed into the other, and everything fell apart. Finally, the day before her lesson, Lulu announced in exasperation that she was giving up and stomped off.

    "Get back to the piano now," I ordered.

    "You can't make me."

    "Oh yes, I can."

    Back at the piano, Lulu made me pay. She punched, thrashed and kicked. She grabbed the music score and tore it to shreds. I taped the score back together and encased it in a plastic shield so that it could never be destroyed again. Then I hauled Lulu's dollhouse to the car and told her I'd donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she didn't have "The Little White Donkey" perfect by the next day. When Lulu said, "I thought you were going to the Salvation Army, why are you still here?" I threatened her with no lunch, no dinner, no Christmas or Hanukkah presents, no birthday parties for two, three, four years. When she still kept playing it wrong, I told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic.

    Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu—which I wasn't even doing, I was just motivating her—and that he didn't think threatening Lulu was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the technique—perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet—had I considered that possibility?

    "You just don't believe in her," I accused.

    "That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."

    "Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."

    "But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.

    "Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and take them to Yankees games."

    I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.

    Then, out of the blue, Lulu did it. Her hands suddenly came together—her right and left hands each doing their own imperturbable thing—just like that.

    Lulu realized it the same time I did. I held my breath. She tried it tentatively again. Then she played it more confidently and faster, and still the rhythm held. A moment later, she was beaming.

    "Mommy, look—it's easy!" After that, she wanted to play the piece over and over and wouldn't leave the piano. That night, she came to sleep in my bed, and we snuggled and hugged, cracking each other up. When she performed "The Little White Donkey" at a recital a few weeks later, parents came up to me and said, "What a perfect piece for Lulu—it's so spunky and soher."

    Even Jed gave me credit for that one. Western parents worry a lot about their children's self-esteem. But as a parent, one of the worst things you can do for your child's self-esteem is to let them give up. On the flip side, there's nothing better for building confidence than learning you can do something you thought you couldn't.

    There are all these new books out there portraying Asian mothers as scheming, callous, overdriven people indifferent to their kids' true interests. For their part, many Chinese secretly believe that they care more about their children and are willing to sacrifice much more for them than Westerners, who seem perfectly content to let their children turn out badly. I think it's a misunderstanding on both sides. All decent parents want to do what's best for their children. The Chinese just have a totally different idea of how to do that.

    Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.

    —Amy Chua is a professor at Yale Law School and author of "Day of Empire" and "World on Fire: How Exporting Free Market Democracy Breeds Ethnic Hatred and Global Instability." This essay is excerpted from "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" by Amy Chua, to be published Tuesday by the Penguin Press, a member of Penguin Group (USA) Inc. Copyright © 2011 by Amy Chua.
    BTW don't Asian countries have really high suicide rates?

  2. #2
    I wonder how she felt when she 'only' graduated cum laude from Harvard Law; after all, her Western husband managed magna cum laude, so doesn't that make her garbage?

    I think a broader problem is that grades and such in most schools are relative - not everyone can get an A. So that means that for every high achieving straight A student being driven by obsessive parents, there are three or four students continually told how awful they are and who have no incentive to achieve modestly rather than spectacularly (which, at the end of the day, may not be possible).

    Jeez. I definitely get that some Western styles of parenting are too permissive and such, but the world she paints as ideal is insane. And while that may be the stereotypical 'Chinese mother' I really don't think it's so extreme with most parents of high-achieving Chinese Americans that I know.

  3. #3
    I wonder if this person may have just used the WSJ to troll Americans for book sales. Because now I'm actually considering buying the book; reading this woman is like reading a unibomber manifesto or something.

  4. #4
    Just read a few reviews (surprisingly positive) of her book. I have no interest in reading more; it seems like her book is just a long expansion on the same theme. I'm sure WSJ printed it for the shock value, but I can't imagine many people will actually buy her book to read more of that inanity.

    (Interestingly, I'm told her other two books are rather thought provoking.)

  5. #5
    The problem with "Chinese parents", and I could easily apply this to many Eastern cultures, is that they don't realize that grades don't matter nearly as much in the US as they do elsewhere. They undermine their children's social skills and limit their development in other ways just so they could get a negligible advantage. With a few exceptions, no one really cares if someone gets the best grades or very good grades. The person finishing first in their year isn't going to have a real advantage over someone who finishes in the top 10%. That goes for getting into grad school or getting a job. This is different from many Eastern countries where your entire career is determined by your grades (first as admission exams to universities, then as grades in the universities, and later as civil service exams). Notice how these cultures can produce math and music prodigies but almost never produce world-class scientists or thinkers.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The problem with "Chinese parents", and I could easily apply this to many Eastern cultures, is that they don't realize that grades don't matter nearly as much in the US as they do elsewhere. They undermine their children's social skills and limit their development in other ways just so they could get a negligible advantage. With a few exceptions, no one really cares if someone gets the best grades or very good grades. The person finishing first in their year isn't going to have a real advantage over someone who finishes in the top 10%. That goes for getting into grad school or getting a job. This is different from many Eastern countries where your entire career is determined by your grades (first as admission exams to universities, then as grades in the universities, and later as civil service exams). Notice how these cultures can produce math and music prodigies but almost never produce world-class scientists or thinkers.
    This is true. There's also the story that there are a whole bunch of companies out there who refuse to hire anyone with perfect grades, instead prefering the people who got close to it instead. A lot of tech companies have even started taking to not even looking at grades when making the hiring decision (resume collecters will black out the grades if present on a resume before forwarding to the people who make the actual hiring decision) - the job offer comes down to how they do in the interview.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    This is true. There's also the story that there are a whole bunch of companies out there who refuse to hire anyone with perfect grades, instead prefering the people who got close to it instead. A lot of tech companies have even started taking to not even looking at grades when making the hiring decision (resume collecters will black out the grades if present on a resume before forwarding to the people who make the actual hiring decision) - the job offer comes down to how they do in the interview.
    Presumably these resume collectors are weeding out the people with substandard grades before they even get to the point of an interview, though. You're not going to get doors opened for you if you make Cs.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    Presumably these resume collectors are weeding out the people with substandard grades before they even get to the point of an interview, though. You're not going to get doors opened for you if you make Cs.
    They might, but I know at my own company, the first weeding out happens at phone interview portion of things. After having the grades censored, all the resumes go to the people who do the phone interviews, and the first cut of resumes doesn't happen until them.
    Last edited by Wraith; 01-10-2011 at 05:54 AM.

  9. #9
    I think the method for the Piano playing was a little extreme but I admire the overall point. Kids in America are overindulged and babied. There are an absurd number of 20-30 year old adults still clinging to the nest.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    I think the method for the Piano playing was a little extreme but I admire the overall point. Kids in America are overindulged and babied. There are an absurd number of 20-30 year old adults still clinging to the nest.
    None of what you said logically follows at all. In fact your ignorance on this issue causes me to become even more infuriated the longer I spend thinking about it, so I'm going to stop now.
    . . .

  11. #11
    Senior Member Evidently Supermarioman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    I think the method for the Piano playing was a little extreme but I admire the overall point. Kids in America are overindulged and babied. There are an absurd number of 20-30 year old adults still clinging to the nest.
    Insulting your children to get them to succeed is just as lazy as overindulging their egos.
    I enjoy blank walls.

  12. #12
    A lot of this revolves around how schooling is handled in China (or whatever country they are impersonating here). The school atmosphere there takes care of most, if not all, of the social experiences that this mother has banned. From what I've come to understand, its a totally different experience from what US schooling is.
    Sure, the asian countries produce some fucking crazy subcultures, but not unibombers.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Supermarioman View Post
    Insulting your children to get them to succeed is just as lazy as overindulging their egos.
    If the child receives a compliment or an insult based on merit I feel that is appropriate. It annoys the hell out of me when I hear a parent say, "I'll be proud of you no matter what." Really? So if they turn into a terrorist you'll be proud? That's just plain stupid. As I said the piano example goes a bit too far but overall I'm supportive of more tough love then wishy washy "think of their self esteem" crap.

  14. #14
    Lewkowski, a parent to whom the words 'A Parent's Unconditional Love' have no meaning.
    Last edited by Timbuk2; 01-10-2011 at 04:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The problem with "Chinese parents", and I could easily apply this to many Eastern cultures, is that they don't realize that grades don't matter nearly as much in the US as they do elsewhere. They undermine their children's social skills and limit their development in other ways just so they could get a negligible advantage. With a few exceptions, no one really cares if someone gets the best grades or very good grades. The person finishing first in their year isn't going to have a real advantage over someone who finishes in the top 10%. That goes for getting into grad school or getting a job. This is different from many Eastern countries where your entire career is determined by your grades (first as admission exams to universities, then as grades in the universities, and later as civil service exams). Notice how these cultures can produce math and music prodigies but almost never produce world-class scientists or thinkers.
    True, plus (at least over here) thinking critically, independently and taking initiative is also encouraged. I've heard professors and recruiters complain that non-western students (especially Chinese) generally lacked that. They often were good at doing what they were told, but also only did what they were told. This brings up major problems when they have to work in a western work culture, or even function as a student in a university.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  16. #16
    That's what I was thinking. Maybe in Eastern cultures this would be a life skill, but in Western cultures you will likely need social and critical thinking skills. Ability to adapt and think on one's feet. Ability to deal with failure and learn to be a good sport. I wonder if these girls of hers will lash out when they hit their teenage or college years and are so burnt out they go off the deep end.
    Or if not, will they ever be happy? Just soulless robots doing what mommy wants them to do. No individuality, no social skills, no ability to think for themselves.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't have your kid stick with something once they commit to it (we weren't allowed to quit sports or other teams if we asked to be in them and then decided we didn't want to get up for practice). But to force a kid to practice something they may not even like is just ridiculous. I love to play the piano but if it had been forced on me it would be a chore. And I definitely wouldn't be playing from the heart.

  17. #17
    "Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and take them to Yankees games."
    Her next book might be called "How Chinese Do Divorce With A Westerner".

    I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.
    That sounds downright abusive to me. I shudder to think what her Potty Training Techniques were.....or how a bed-wetter might have been treated.

    That night, she came to sleep in my bed, and we snuggled and hugged, cracking each other up.
    This woman reminds me of Mommy Dearest. This isn't Tough Love the way I think of it. More like control-freak manipulating parenting.

    The rest of it sounds like an inability to see one's children as individuals, separate and unique. Almost like their family has an umbilical cord for a lifetime, subservient to parents and elders forever? Probably a centuries-old attitude hard to change....might be good at instilling family honor and standards of excellence, but also collective shame, guilt, neuroses.

  18. #18
    Sounds like Locke to the max and then some.

    I agree with what's being said about how that style of upbringing doesn't prepare a person for the Western world and workplace. I don't care if her kids graduate from Harvard, once they're there they'll need to learn how to interact with people when mommy's not around. If they don't, I can't imagine they'll find success or happiness in the time that follows.

    Also the mother's behavior in that whole piano story sounds cultist to me, is anyone else getting that vibe? You know, the abusive leader who beats the sense out of a follower's mind and replaces it with loyalty.

  19. #19
    BTW don't Asian countries have really high suicide rates?
    Nice.

    9 words to demolish the thesis of an entire article, probably a whole book. You should it in the WJS comments section or e-mail to the author or something ("Thanks for the explanation. I'd always wondered why the suicide rate was so high amongst Asian kids".)
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  20. #20
    They also have ridiculously high rates of undiagnosed mental illnesses (undiagnosed because a "good Asian child" doesn't get mental illnesses, and therefore doesn't need to see mental health specialists).
    Hope is the denial of reality

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    They also have ridiculously high rates of undiagnosed mental illnesses
    This is why I'm particularly outraged that Lewk considers this to be an example of good parenting, and Lewk is a parent. I don't know which to be infuriated by more...
    . . .

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Lewkowski, a parent to whom the words 'A Parent's Unconditional Love' have no meaning.
    Do you not know the difference between love and pride?

    If you are proud of someone who hasn't done anything to deserve it that is pretty sad. Woohoo you were born I'm so proud... bah.

    Actions have consequences and that is a good thing. I will tell my child I am proud of them when they do something to merit it. Otherwise you're just sending mixed messages and telling them actions have no consequences.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Nice.

    9 words to demolish the thesis of an entire article, probably a whole book. You should it in the WJS comments section or e-mail to the author or something ("Thanks for the explanation. I'd always wondered why the suicide rate was so high amongst Asian kids".)
    Really? See I thought that comment was really dumb. The article was about Chinese mothers not Asian mothers. I guess you see all folks from Asia as just "Asian" and just make massive assumptions independent of their actual cultures? I'm willing to bet you wouldn't make the same assumption about "White" people being monoculture.

    Did you know China is ranked below a whole host of countries in terms of suicide rates? Like the United States, Germany, Chile, Australia, Iceland, Romania, Canada, Poland, South Africa and Russia?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Do you not know the difference between love and pride?

    If you are proud of someone who hasn't done anything to deserve it that is pretty sad. Woohoo you were born I'm so proud... bah.

    Actions have consequences and that is a good thing. I will tell my child I am proud of them when they do something to merit it. Otherwise you're just sending mixed messages and telling them actions have no consequences.
    Do tell. When will your little Lewk do something worthy your admiration and pride? Will he know what your criteria is for a merit award?

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post

    BTW don't Asian countries have really high suicide rates?
    Japan high schools have extremely high suicide rates, i know for a facct because two of my cousins attempted suicide because they weren't in the top 10.

    Hey, and living as a prime exemplar of what that type of parenting does, i think i'm fairly successful. Even though i've had all As since freshmen year of high school, never have I chosen which course i'd take (my parents determined what will look better on a transcript), learned to play piano and alto saxophone, played soccer because they "said so", made varsity freshmen year, and my parents pretty much micro-manage my life, i think i'm fairly successful both socially and academically. Except for that whole trolling alter-ego douchenozzle part, i think i came out fine. i just won't use AS much corporal punishment when helping my children.
    Last edited by Omega; 01-11-2011 at 09:39 AM.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Do you not know the difference between love and pride?

    If you are proud of someone who hasn't done anything to deserve it that is pretty sad. Woohoo you were born I'm so proud... bah.
    This isn't just someone.

    This is your child.

    I'll leave it to you to work out the difference in how you approach them.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Do tell. When will your little Lewk do something worthy your admiration and pride? Will he know what your criteria is for a merit award?
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Do tell. When will your little Lewk do something worthy your admiration and pride? Will he know what your criteria is for a merit award?
    Of course he would know. Clear objectives and goals are important. You don't leave someone guessing. As to when, well he's only 2 now so its a bit young to be setting goals and objectives. Doing well in school, sports, honesty and obedience will be important goals for childhood.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    As to when, well he's only 2 now so its a bit young to be setting goals and objectives.
    wrong. Scarlett is only 14 months and she already understands the objectives we have for her. Sure, a lot of it involves behavioral conditioning, but still.

    You're doing a really bad job of trying to defend your parenting decission here by ignoring the every day praise a growing and developing child deserves from his/her parents. A child that goes their the first years of their life with no praise because their milestones weren't important enough? Thats abuse.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 01-11-2011 at 03:22 PM.

  29. #29
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Gods, can we get away from who is the better parent in this discussion. Neither of you have enough info on the other on how the other is REALLY raising their kids.
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Gods, can we get away from who is the better parent in this discussion. Neither of you have enough info on the other on how the other is REALLY raising their kids.
    Take the rod out your ass. "really raising" our kids is the point I was making. Lewk is either an emotionless human being (shown false by glee displayed in his murder threads) or willfully ignoring a very basic part of being a parent in a shallow attempt to defend the position he took earlier in the thread.

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