View Poll Results: What is Gambling?

Voters
2. You may not vote on this poll
  • Waking up every day, it's a crap shoot

    2 100.00%
  • Lotto tickets, slot machines, what the hell it's only a few bucks

    0 0%
  • Stocks/bonds/mutual funds/Treasuries/401s and IRAs, buying bridges

    1 50.00%
  • Ponies, sports teams, someone has to win, it could be me!

    0 0%
  • Poker, it's a legitimate skill, and I bluff really well

    0 0%
  • Sex, the most exciting gamble of all

    0 0%
  • Crossing the street against traffic, or shaking hands without Purell

    1 50.00%
  • Parachuting, rock climbing (also power tool*use)

    0 0%
  • Smoking, drinking, eating fatty foods

    1 50.00%
  • Flying, boating, driving

    1 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Defining Gambling

  1. #1

    Default Defining Gambling

    Let's break this down.

  2. #2
    You start.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  3. #3
    I gambled on making the damn thread. Why is there a * after power tool?

    I could have added more options, like Voting, but just went with the default
    Last edited by GGT; 01-27-2010 at 08:22 AM. Reason: I also gamble by every time I use this damn dying computer

  4. #4
    Gambling. You need a stake and a percentage, the odds. The stake can be anything between money and honour. The odds have to be larger than 0, and smaller than 1.

    In other words, I don't know why there's a * after power tool.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Gambling. You need a stake and a percentage, the odds. The stake can be anything between money and honour. The odds have to be larger than 0, and smaller than 1.

    In other words, I don't know why there's a * after power tool.
    I thought you created games for a living. You should know more about what makes humans tick, or why they keep buying computer or video games. Shouldn't you?

    *

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    I thought you created games for a living. You should know more about what makes humans tick, or why they keep buying computer or video games. Shouldn't you?

    *
    I even create gambling games. But the motivation why people play those isn't that intricate. They want to beat the game just like any other game.

    My job is really to create illusions in the Gambling. For instance when we present a double or nothing gamble, you'll see the animation switching rapidly between the "double" and "nothing" symbol. The player will try to press gamble at the moment the "double" symbol is lit. He doesn't realise (and doesn't want to realise) that the decision whether he loses or wins was made at the start of a game, so it appears to be that his input had an impact. His timing is not important, when he presses gamble, the symbol the controller decided on will light up.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  7. #7
    So merely entering the game is, in fact, the user flaw that you (or your employer) try to exploit?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    I even create gambling games. But the motivation why people play those isn't that intricate. They want to beat the game just like any other game.

    My job is really to create illusions in the Gambling. For instance when we present a double or nothing gamble, you'll see the animation switching rapidly between the "double" and "nothing" symbol. The player will try to press gamble at the moment the "double" symbol is lit. He doesn't realise (and doesn't want to realise) that the decision whether he loses or wins was made at the start of a game, so it appears to be that his input had an impact. His timing is not important, when he presses gamble, the symbol the controller decided on will light up.
    Do you find yourself using such machines outside of work (in a pub say and not testing competitors machines or your own - leisure use basically) even though you work in the trade?

    I hardly use the machines but I've heard people talk about various ways of telling if you'll win anything. For example one guy believes that each machines has 2 compartments for where change is held, if one is full and you hear the coins going further down the machine it will pay out. Sounds like bollocks to me.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    So merely entering the game is, in fact, the user flaw that you (or your employer) try to exploit?
    Why is it a user flaw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lor View Post
    Do you find yourself using such machines outside of work (in a pub say and not testing competitors machines or your own - leisure use basically) even though you work in the trade?
    Nope, I never play them

    I hardly use the machines but I've heard people talk about various ways of telling if you'll win anything. For example one guy believes that each machines has 2 compartments for where change is held, if one is full and you hear the coins going further down the machine it will pay out. Sounds like bollocks to me.
    Does to me as well. Every manufacturer has their own control of course, but the hopper where the coins are held can be filled by the operator at the start of the day as empty or as full as you like. After all, you can't start the machine with an empty hopper, because you couldn't pay out the first customer if he won something. If that operator overheard this guy's strategy, he simply would fill it to the brim.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  10. #10
    It's a user "flaw" because anyone with sense says it's bullocks and doesn't play?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    It's a user "flaw" because anyone with sense says it's bullocks and doesn't play?
    It's just a way to pay to play to kill time with a chance of winning something now and again.

    Our pay-out percentages are almost double that of most lotteries by the way
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  12. #12
    Senior Member Lor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Our pay-out percentages are almost double that of most lotteries by the way
    Didn't know that! Food for thought.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Why is it a user flaw?

    Nope, I never play them

    Does to me as well. Every manufacturer has their own control of course, but the hopper where the coins are held can be filled by the operator at the start of the day as empty or as full as you like. After all, you can't start the machine with an empty hopper, because you couldn't pay out the first customer if he won something. If that operator overheard this guy's strategy, he simply would fill it to the brim.
    Not sure whether it works or not, but I remember from when I worked in a bar with one of thse machines, that if you played after someone lost a lot of money, you would almost always get a decent profit if you played for a while. One of our regulars made a decent amount of money like that.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Not sure whether it works or not, but I remember from when I worked in a bar with one of thse machines, that if you played after someone lost a lot of money, you would almost always get a decent profit if you played for a while. One of our regulars made a decent amount of money like that.
    Well, that used to work yeah. Funny thing is that the government made it mandatory our machines behaved a certain way for ages and this was the result. Losses and wins had to be compensated immediately. So, if you'd draw a graph, you'd get a saw shape. Big win, loss, loss, loss, loss, big win, loss, loss, loss, etc. This also made the machines boring, predictable and make players avoid certain machines. Because we get a little more leeway now, and gotten quite a bit more creative with our controllers (like setting aside some wins so we can give the big wins more irregularly, regardless what the behaviour of the machine is at the time). If only the sharks are playing it's bad for business.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  15. #15
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    When did that change start?

    BTW, I really don't get those machines. I've tried one once or twice to see what was it about, but I never undertood what the hell I was doing besides pressing random numbers, seeing values at the top and bottom, and occasionally some money came out, god knows why.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    When did that change start?

    BTW, I really don't get those machines. I've tried one once or twice to see what was it about, but I never undertood what the hell I was doing besides pressing random numbers, seeing values at the top and bottom, and occasionally some money came out, god knows why.
    Was tight before 2002, tightened in 2002 (Euro time) we've been chipping away at them ever since. Mostly by not trying to ef the rules, and working with the government against gambling addiction by trying to spot those troubles with regulars in our halls, and getting them into touch with professional help. Addiction seems to be beneficial to us at first glance, but isn't actually helping us. Of course you have the social implications, the usual aggressive nature of addicts and the fact that once they hit rock bottom we don't get any money any more from them.

    Then last year we were shafted by Mr. Fuckface de Jager who decided to lay a tax on us which is usually only applicable to games with a jackpot over 450 Euro (from 1.000 Guilders). We don't have that kind of jackpot, but asshole de Jager argued they couldn't check that. While they check every machine we make inside and out, including the code. In short, it was just a cheap trick. The biggest addicts can be found in Holland Casino though, where you really can lose a lot of money. But that's government owned, so yes they have to pay those taxes too, but that also goes to the government.

    I better shut up about that or I'd be ranting all night.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

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