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Thread: Segregation Revisited

  1. #1

    Default Segregation Revisited

    This is what's happening on my side of the pond.

    Thought I'd split this out from the hotel refusing service to the gay couple, since this is Public Education. Other schools are experimenting with classes sorted by gender, on the theory that it reduces 'distractions' for students.

    Thoughts?


    Pennsylvania school experiments with 'segregation'

    By Monika Plocienniczak, CNN
    January 28, 2011 9:51 a.m. EST


    (CNN) -- A Pennsylvania high school says some students are separated by race, gender and language for a few minutes each day in an effort to boost academic scores, raising controversy over the historically contentious issue of segregation in schools.

    The initiative is a pilot program intended to capitalize on "enriching students' experiences through mentoring" and is derived from school research "that shows grouping black students by gender with a strong role model can help boost their academic achievement and self esteem," according to a statement from McCaskey East High School in Lancaster.

    "Educators immediately noticed strong bonds being formed between all students and mentor teachers," the statement said.

    The junior class at McCaskey East is voluntarily segregated by the students, who organize themselves "by gender, race and/or language," said school spokeswoman Kelly Burkholder.

    But some school experts say the experiment is misguided.

    "When we talk about reducing the achievement gap, do we mean merely reducing the discrepancy of test scores of white students and students of color?" asked education consultant Sam Chaltain. "Or do we mean reducing the predictive impact that things like race, class and gender have on all aspects of student engagement, performance and learning?"

    The school's principal defended the policy.

    "One of the things we said when we did this was, 'Let's look at the data, let's not run from it. Let's confront it and see what we can do about it,'" said school principal Bill Jimenez. "In visiting the classrooms, I saw students planning their path for success after graduation."

    But while McCaskey East students are "segregated" for six minutes each day and 20 minutes twice a month, some say other school systems in the country appear to be reverting to real segregation.

    Last month, the NAACP held a three-day education summit in Raleigh, North Carolina, where the Wake County School Board, bolstered by the election of four new conservative members last year, ended the school system's 10-year-old diversity policy that used the number of students receiving free or reduced-price lunches to assign students to schools.

    They plan to replace the policy with a "neighborhood schools system" that critics say will establish real segregation.
    "School boards across this country are rolling the clock back to the time before Brown vs. the Board of Education," NAACP President Benjamin Todd Jealous said in a statement. "The NAACP will not let this happen."

    The 1954 case from Topeka, Kansas, ruled that segregation in public schools was unconstitutional, overturning an earlier ruling in a decision that determined "separate educational facilities are inherently unequal."

    But as educators look for new ways to improve student aptitude, some point out that McCaskey East High School could have the right idea. A national study from UCLA Graduate School of Education and Information Studies claims to show that girls from single-sex schools have an edge over their co-ed peers.

    "Single-sex education appears to produce favorable outcomes for female students, especially in terms of their confidence, engagement and aspirations, most notably in areas related to math and science," the 2008 study said.
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/27/pen....html?hpt=Sbin

    Includes video



    <McCaskey is known as a fairly bad city school, low test scores, truancy, gangs, etc. It's already "segregated" by income and district lines. It's common knowledge that the "nicer" neighborhoods usually send their children to private or parochial schools, and those property taxes are pretty high.>

  2. #2
    Sort of like the housing debate: do you cluster low-income people in a housing project or put a housing project within a more affluent community?

    My high school tried something like this actually. They didn't do it for academic stuff, but they did have groups where people could self-identify as black or hispanic, etc. Then they could just talk openly with each other about that fact. I understood the need for it, after all it's not socially easy being a minority. But actually translating that into classwork performance is tough to measure, you just gotta go with your gut.

  3. #3
    Terrible. Race should not be a factor. As long as people associate race with meaning we will always have racism.

    Gender is slightly more acceptable since we are dealing with actual biological issues. A case could be made that it is easier to focus on studies during the class if you are not attempting to impress the opposite sex. Not that I'm in favor of it but its at least tolerable.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
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    Do you live in Pennsylvania GGT?

    Whilst I can see the reasoning behind gender segregation (my city is full of such private schools, all of which are religion based anyway), doing it on grounds of race is out of the question.

    I went to a public school and we had such gender segregation within the school. It was only for junior high school, and those who had high grades, where we had only two "Extension English" classes, one all female and the other all male. I was in the all male one and didn't particularly like it since a lot of the guys were rather rowdy. Then there was the all male sports class, that was even worse

  5. #5
    I support segregation on a larger scale. I don't like the concept of forcefully busing students out of their neighborhood in order for some overly black school to have the right ratio; or putting magnet schools in the middle of a black neighborhood so that the school is desegrated, even though the local kids don't have any classes with the special program bussed in kids.

    But segregrating students that are already within the school, within classes? Thats not cool, one the most important parts of public education is to experience the different aspects of different groups of people. Doesn't matter if its blacks/whites/emos/goths/meat heads/etc/

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Terrible. Race should not be a factor. As long as people associate race with meaning we will always have racism.

    Gender is slightly more acceptable since we are dealing with actual biological issues. A case could be made that it is easier to focus on studies during the class if you are not attempting to impress the opposite sex. Not that I'm in favor of it but its at least tolerable.
    Things like intelligence can be linked to "race" (geographical lineage) a lot easier than to gender, if I recall correctly. But these results are controversial and verboten thanks to liberals :/
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Things like intelligence can be linked to "race" (geographical lineage) a lot easier than to gender, if I recall correctly. But these results are controversial and verboten thanks to liberals :/
    How would such a study weed out cultural factors? For example there is a stereotype that Asians are good at school. Is that because of genetic superiority or is it because of a culture that places a value on education and a strong work ethic?

  8. #8
    I think the two more fundamental questions are:

    1. How heavy is the genetic component of intelligence?
    2. Do we have reason to believe that white people have been selected for intelligence at a significantly higher rate than other races (over a long enough period of time to make a difference)?

    I don't know the answer to 1, but the answer to 2 is quite clearly no.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    How would such a study weed out cultural factors? For example there is a stereotype that Asians are good at school. Is that because of genetic superiority or is it because of a culture that places a value on education and a strong work ethic?
    How does your theory about the two sexes account for culture?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    How does your theory about the two sexes account for culture?
    Eh? My point was having less distractions in school might help kids while in class.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Eh? My point was having less distractions in school might help kids while in class.
    True, sorry.

    What about homosexual kids though
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Eh? My point was having less distractions in school might help kids while in class.
    Honest, trap free (sorta) question. When are students considered old enough to deal with distractions? Do we simply dump them into college, wait till they hit the real world, or start during those stressfull high school years?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco View Post
    Do you live in Pennsylvania GGT?
    Yeah, Lancaster County is my general neck of the woods. So is York County, home of the infamous Dover school district (with creationism/intelligent design in public schools law suit).

    PA in general has education problems. I suspect it's related to how our provincial Commonwealth does property taxes, which leads to segregated neighborhoods based on race-income-education.

    Realtors compile census data for incoming home buyers, showing percentage of college degreed professionals, income, average home value, property taxes, school test scores, percentage of HS students who go on to college, etc. No surprise to find those areas end up being racially homogenous, or "segregated".

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Eh? My point was having less distractions in school might help kids while in class.
    There are a few feats humans have achieved simply because they wanted to impress the opposite sex (or the same sex)...
    . . .

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    There are a few feats humans have achieved simply because they wanted to impress the opposite sex (or the same sex)...
    Exactly. Some of our public schools "experimented" with a team approach in middle school. They were trying to appeal to kids' natural sense of peer pressure and 'friendly' competition. But it was clearly academic-track-based, vaguely disguised as Teams with their own name/mascot/t-shirt. Kids figured out fast which was which, and the stereotypes pretty much destroyed the intent.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Honest, trap free (sorta) question. When are students considered old enough to deal with distractions? Do we simply dump them into college, wait till they hit the real world, or start during those stressfull high school years?
    So back to my previous post:


    Gender is slightly more acceptable since we are dealing with actual biological issues. A case could be made that it is easier to focus on studies during the class if you are not attempting to impress the opposite sex. Not that I'm in favor of it but its at least tolerable.

    I'm not in favor of gender separation but its not out and out retarded like race based separation would be.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Yeah, Lancaster County is my general neck of the woods. So is York County, home of the infamous Dover school district (with creationism/intelligent design in public schools law suit).
    I saw a documentary a while ago about how creationism was being introduced into a school over there, must have been that one.

    How do you like Pennsylvania as a state to live in?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    So back to my previous post:


    Gender is slightly more acceptable since we are dealing with actual biological issues. A case could be made that it is easier to focus on studies during the class if you are not attempting to impress the opposite sex. Not that I'm in favor of it but its at least tolerable.

    I'm not in favor of gender separation but its not out and out retarded like race based separation would be.
    Is it really that hard to answer a straight forward question?
    Obviouslt life is easier without distractions, but that wasn't the question.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

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