Thank you for your valuable contribution.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
loki is also one of those forest-for-the-trees people
i don't know how he's gotten the idea that the only significant obstacle to finishing highschool is MONEY
what, has he forgotten life? family? neighbourhood? psyche?
No, I say the quality of a country's education system is not dependent on the country's economic system (unless it's a communist state, in which case the education system suffers). If America became socialist tomorrow, the quality of its education wouldn't magically change; neither would the approach teachers take to students.
And as usual, you totally miss the point. The reality is that the reason main reasons for poverty in this country are entirely dependent on those people's individual decisions. You can't blame the economic system here for individuals choosing not to complete high school.
Hope is the denial of reality
Of course you wouldn't get change over-night, what kind of an idiot expects people and societies to change over-night when they've developed over many years?? Sheesh, get real Loki.
I must admit btw that I don't understand why you think kids dropping out of highschool mostly has to do with the quality of education and with the "approach teachers take to students". It's almost as if you forget that life for most people consists of far more than school, even for kids. It's almost as if you forget the socio in socioeconomic and the psychosoci in psychosocial, ending up only with economic and al.
as usual you miss the point by virtue of being absurdly blind and forgetting that individuals don't make decisions in a vacuum. a person who drops out of highschool has already lived at least seventeen years, but you choose to completely ignore that, thus missing the point.And as usual, you totally miss the point. The reality is that the reason main reasons for poverty in this country are entirely dependent on those people's individual decisions. You can't blame the economic system here for individuals choosing not to complete high school.
And you continue to ignore the fact that the variables that make people drop out are mostly rooted in the American culture (or some American sub-cultures), and therefore cannot be changed by altering the economic system.
Hope is the denial of reality
you may be in the wrong thread, but brainwashing people into wanting to be identical to happy productive non-criminal members of society is probably an excellent solution!! perhaps you could bring about something akin to that by changing attitudes in society and developing better welfare (better for the US I mean, I guess that would be quite different from what might work in eg. Sweden or HOLLAND).
i am astonished though to see such caution from someone who has always believed that any aspect of human behaviour on all scales can be significantly modified by assigning monetary rewards and punishments!! are you no longer that man??
The most important message to take home from this thread is that you are only concerned with easy answers and easy solutions. Loki, I am disappoint
not surprise, just disappoint
WAITAMINNIT
you crazy crazy man
how on EARTH can you say that, living as you do in a country that wastes more money on healthcare than does any other country on earth because of a refusal to implement easy solutions???If there was an easy solution, it would presumably be undertaken already.
People are already given massive incentives to finish school. Not all children are smart or responsible enough to respond to such incentives. At some point, adding more incentives doesn't increase the amount of people who are persuaded by them.
Hope is the denial of reality
"at some point"? surely you mean "over a decade after birth, in a place outside the family"?? come on man, let's strive to speak clearly here
you are once again trying to sneakily simplify the issue, but why not just tell me exactly what those cultural aspects are that make people drop out of highschool?? you mentioned them earlier, and you are an american citizen, so i assume you have some idea of what they are. you've conceded that they're the big villains (although suddenly you bring up smartness and sense of responsibility, probably due to a subconscious desire to pat your own hairy back ), so help me understand what they are!!
and then you and I and GGT can muse on what can be done about those big villains.
i bet it's better welfare
The idolization of the gang life, sports, and music (as careers) in certain sub-cultures. The "uncoolness" associated with actually doing work. Parents always defending their children when the latter are criticized by teachers (i.e. at parent-teacher conferences). A general "live in the present" culture. It's not a coincidence that the groups in the US who do best when it comes to education and economic situation are either immigrants (from good backgrounds) or people from sub-cultures that are in some way insulated from the dominant culture.
Hope is the denial of reality
^Don't forget excessive consumerism. Not that "I want that thing so i'l work really hard for it" kind, but rather the "I want that thing so i'l take out a loan or two" kind...
Fiscal responsibility seems to be at an all time low.
But i guess that's what you meant by live in the presenet...
let's work out ways to tackle the idolisation of gang life!!
let's help make school fun and cool! from first grade!The "uncoolness" associated with actually doing work.
wait, you're saying this is one of the major reasons why some kids drop out of highschool?? okay, i guess i'll buy it...Parents always defending their children when the latter are criticized by teachers (i.e. at parent-teacher conferences).
Let's give teachers better tools and more opportunities (than criticising kids at PT-conferences) to help kids develop!!
let's give more parents the means to become more active and happy parents, eg. by reducing their stress and lack of security eg. through BETTER WELFARE
due to the future being so damn' uncertain of course let's fix that as well, so that people can dare to hope.A general "live in the present" culture.
let's give more kids good backgroundsIt's not a coincidence that the groups in the US who do best when it comes to education and economic situation are either immigrants (from good backgrounds)
now that we've sorted that out let us tackle the other two indicators in your unholy indicators of poverty trifecta
How do keep people from getting addicted to drugs?
How do we stem the epidemic of teenage pregnancies??
see? it's going in the right direction! reward progress
[QUOTE=Aimless;5101] It's almost as if you forget the socio in socioeconomic and the psychosoci in psychosocial, ending up only with economic and al.
Huh. That's probably the best "Loki in a nutshell" summary I've ever seen.
But here we have all this evidence that by far the best intervention place for at risk kids in before they start kindergarten, yet that "easy" choice hasn't been taken.
Actually, the data for that has been ambiguous at best. I've seen an article showing that Head Start has an effect in the first several years after kids finish it, but the effect is pretty much gone before they finish high school. A good start would be to stop passing people who don't have a specific set of skills by a certain grade level. The amount of kids that get to high school without being able to read properly or know anything but the most basic math is appalling. And obviously these people are going to struggle in high school, and some will take the easy way out.
Hope is the denial of reality