It takes fuel to transport fuel...Originally Posted by wiggin
It takes fuel to transport fuel...
True, but you can do arbitrage on paper at the very least, and this kind of price differential (up to $15/barrel at points!) makes it worth it to ship, especially if you could reverse the flow of the pipeline to Cushing from the Gulf.
A new survey says the average price of regular gasoline in the United States has jumped 33 cents per gallon in the last two weeks.
The Lundberg Survey of fuel prices released Sunday says it's the second biggest price increase over a two-week span on record.
I find it wierd that the little towns in the mountains around here are so much more expensive than on either side of the mountain. Paid $3.30/gal. on western slope. Saw prices as high $3.49/gal. in the mountains. Here on front range (eastern slope) $3.30/gal. One clerk told me it's due to the higher cost of shipping the gas to them.Uhm, but it somehow costs less to ship it all the way over the mountain to the western slope? Su-u-u-ure thing buddy.
The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless
I paid $1.40AUD/litre yesterday which is about $1.38 USD/litre and using your weird arse US gallons (Why the fuck don't you use UK Gallons?) at a rate of 3.785 litres/USG according to my early morning arithmetic I paid 5.22 USD per gallon.
So you nice Amerikan folks should really appreciate that all those billions of dollars spent on your military folks and their tactical deployment around the globe have at least achieved your primary goal of having relatively cheap fuel for your cars.
America Fuck Yeah! Well done.
Such is Life...
Probably, yes.
I find it wierd that the little towns in the mountains around here are so much more expensive than on either side of the mountain. Paid $3.30/gal. on western slope. Saw prices as high $3.49/gal. in the mountains. Here on front range (eastern slope) $3.30/gal. One clerk told me it's due to the higher cost of shipping the gas to them.
True, we Americans (myself included) tend to complain a lot without considering how it is in other parts of the world. My particular complaint this time was more directed at how it is priced in different locales, and the nonsensical explanations we are given for it. Though an explanation for gas pricing given by store clerk might not be too reliable. Probably had more to do with local economy and charging what that specific market would bear than shipping costs.I paid $1.40AUD/litre yesterday which is about $1.38 USD/litre and using your weird arse US gallons (Why the fuck don't you use UK Gallons?) at a rate of 3.785 litres/USG according to my early morning arithmetic I paid 5.22 USD per gallon.
So you nice Amerikan folks should really appreciate that all those billions of dollars spent on your military folks and their tactical deployment around the globe have at least achieved your primary goal of having relatively cheap fuel for your cars.
America Fuck Yeah! Well done.
The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless
rumrunner: There are routinely differences of $0.10-0.15/gallon on gas stations within a short distance of one another. It has little to do with fundamentals.
You do realize that the price we pay for gas relative to others is essentially independent of the price of oil since we all pay about the same amount around the world (with some notable exceptions). Local gas price has most to do with taxation and regulation. In the US, there are relatively strict rules on gas composition (wrt refining, additives, pollutants, etc.) though I'm not sure if it's much worse in Europe et al. But our fuel tax is miniscule comparatively, which makes up most of the difference. There are some differences in our refining and distribution networks as well.I paid $1.40AUD/litre yesterday which is about $1.38 USD/litre and using your weird arse US gallons (Why the fuck don't you use UK Gallons?) at a rate of 3.785 litres/USG according to my early morning arithmetic I paid 5.22 USD per gallon.
So you nice Amerikan folks should really appreciate that all those billions of dollars spent on your military folks and their tactical deployment around the globe have at least achieved your primary goal of having relatively cheap fuel for your cars.
America Fuck Yeah! Well done.
Our involvement in Middle East wars doesn't make gas cheaper for us, and in fact probably made global crude somewhat more expensive. Now, one could make a credible argument that US commitment to keeping the Straits of Hormuz open and the like is a way to keep crude prices down - and our military is significant invested in the region. Yet we don't actually use much of the crude that goes through there; most of it gets to other countries. Thus if anything we're helping keep global gas costs down, not our own.
My girlfriend's parents live in a small mining town very high up a mountain in Canada. They very rarely get deliveries up there and when they do its a specific run to their town. It costs less to be part of a generic run that happens to be going past you anyway than being a specific one going deliberately to you.
Your towns either side of the mountain are probably more likely to get visited more often, less out of the way, as well as facing more competition.
You're right about the potential pricing fundamentals, RB, but that small of a difference can easily be based on other factors. Within a 1/2 mile strip of road here in Bmore you can easily have a 10-20 cent price difference; even gas stations across the street from each other can have large differences. Gas pricing is a lot more complex than the actual price paid by the station franchise and delivery costs. Hell, most of the profit of the individual franchises has to do with incidentals (car washes, cigarettes/candy, etc.) rather than their actual margin on the gas.
Wiggin, that may be true in large urban areas, but in small towns the price is usually pretty much the same all over town. Mostly because no one has to drive far to get a better price at another station, less than 10 miles (approx.17km. if I've done my math right). But generally speaking I was referring to the difference between the price in the mountains here (higher) and on either side of the mountains. It just seems odd that people accept that it would be more costly to deliver in the mountains than it is on the other side from the distribution hub. Like I said: it probably has more to do with local markets and what they will bear than actual delivery costs.
The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless
I'm not sure I'm getting your logic about smaller towns, but that's not particularly important, I suppose.
No, what rummy said is important. There is an obvious disconnect between supply and demand. It wouldn't make sense for folks to drive to the other side of the mountain just to save a few cents on gas. They probably used up any savings just by driving there. Small towns are usually more competitive in price, and the corner gas stations conduct a friendly type of price "war". In essence, they end up charging the same price. Because who would buy gas across the corner when it's 5 cents more per gallon?
But my point was that in a 1/2 mile strip of road in a city you have wildly divergent prices. Why wouldn't the same argument work there?
Because small towns aren't the same as cities? Especially if/when those cities can capitalize on certain roads, rush hour traffic, exits or entrances onto freeways or turnpikes, or being the last stop for rental cars returning to an airport. Those aren't things small towns usually have to deal with.But my point was that in a 1/2 mile strip of road in a city you have wildly divergent prices. Why wouldn't the same argument work there?
Okay, but that's not a very convincing argument. Small towns have freeway entrances, too (in fact they tend to be far more important economically), and more broadly the 'two stations at the same corner' point is still valid. Why can I go to station X and pay 10 cents/gallon different from station Y right next to it?
The answer is that gas pricing is not how these stations make their money, at least for the big chains. The answer is not that competition between close stations drives down prices to a common floor.
I noticed today that two stations across the street from each other had a 5 cent difference. Yeah, it's because the higher rate place is situated on the "convenient" side of the intersection, leading directly onto 83. They also have a small Subway sandwich shop inside. People anxious to hit the interstate would probably pay the difference, instead of making turns at the lights and trying to get into the cheaper station (whose entry/exit routes are all messed up). The prices usually end up the same after a few days. Almost like Tom's has to get permission from Exxon before raising their rates to be competitive?
In small towns most people are driving from one end of town to the other, or nearly so, on a daily basis. In larger urban areas this isn't always the case (In fact I would guess that it rarely is), so there is less incentive to fight traffic going across the street,or around the block, etc... to save a few cents/gal. especially considering you then have to fight traffic again to get back on route to your destination. Traffic hassles being the other difference between rural and urban areas. The small town prices as a whole were not very different from the urban prices. But the prices from one station to the next were pretty much the same in small towns, where as urban areas can have large fluctuations from station to station.
The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless
As well as the convenience, it can be more expensive to drive to a cheaper petrol station than it is to fill up at a more expensive one that's already on the route.
Tonight I paid $2.29 / gallon with my grocery discount card. That's $1.10 / gallon savings. Yeah, I drove a few extra miles for that one, and well worth it.
Wow, $3.39 is way cheap. We are over $4.00 now. And my grocery card discount is only $0.10 per gallon, and only if I buy $50 worth of groceries that same day.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Paid 3.74 for the premium stuff at a Hess Station. I've got a feeling with Summer coming up thats the cheapest I've going to see it for a very long time. Not looking forward to $5 gas in 2012.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
$3.39 was at Sam's Club, membership price. It fluctuates daily.
Today at the gym I saw the music video for "Where is the Love", which is a Black Eyed Peas song from 2001 or 2002. There is a scene where premium gas is something like $1.83...
had to pit today for another 10 gallons and the premium stuff cost me $3.99
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Going on a drive this weekend. We'll see how much of that $4 premium costs.
Really puts a financial deadspin on my plans to have a car for trips*in the area this summer.
Its $3.95 - $3.99 for regular, paid in cash, not credit (otherwise its $.10 more a gallon), here in NY.had to pit today for another 10 gallons and the premium stuff cost me $3.99
. . .
$3.659 for regular. The grocery discount card only saved me 0.10/gal this time around.
Took the Beetle out for a drive today. Paid $4.299 for premium. I expected to nudge or cross $4, but didn't expect it to be that high.
3.55 to 3.79. Within 5 mile radius. Crazy shit. Saw some dude fueling up his big honking SUV and paying over $100 bucks, but he had out of state plates. He didn't seem to mind.
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