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  1. #991
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Were there any Tyrells left after Cersei's bbq ?
    There are still cadet branches of that family, just like there are Lannisters other than Cersei and Jamie.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  2. #992
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    There are still cadet branches of that family, just like there are Lannisters other than Cersei and Jamie.
    Not sure there are in the tv show. In the books the heir stays back home and there's an extra brother around kings landing too (but in the show Loras is the only son).

    Which reminds me, there's Tyrell armies near kings landing, there's the smallfolk who loved the sparrows, yet there's apparently no backlash at all from Cersei's actions last season (and it's no secret, Hot Pie knows for example).
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  3. #993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Not sure there are in the tv show. In the books the heir stays back home and there's an extra brother around kings landing too (but in the show Loras is the only son).

    Which reminds me, there's Tyrell armies near kings landing, there's the smallfolk who loved the sparrows, yet there's apparently no backlash at all from Cersei's actions last season (and it's no secret, Hot Pie knows for example).
    Spoiler:
    Just because they don't show them on the show doesn't mean they don't exist in the HBO world. It's a moot point anyway. Presumably the Tarlys get Highgarden.

    Great episode 4 by the way. It answers the question of who'd win in a fight between Romans and Mongols backed by dragons.

    Incidentally, if they want to hurt dragons, shouldn't they coat the ballista arrows with poison?
    Last edited by Loki; 08-07-2017 at 06:42 PM.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  4. #994
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    ................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .
    Spoiler:
    Daenerys. Dany. Khaleesi. Buddy. Protip. Don't set all the food on fire just before winter.

    Fantastic hour of television, though.
    The walls are coming down.
    All we need is one to fail, one to break, one to take it all away.
    What if we crumble, what if we fall? Where's the flame that torch the soul?
    Truth, when spoken, dies down to nothing.

  5. #995
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    Haha.. episode 5.. I love how they dealt with the great reveal
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  6. #996
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    I really wish they'd keep this season at 10 episodes. Keeps on feeling rushed.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #997
    Unencrypted Wraith's Avatar
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    It does seem to be moving much faster than previous seasons. ............................................

    Spoiler:
    Does Tarly's wife's revelation that Raegar remarried mean that Jon isn't actually a bastard? Assuming primogeniture, is Jon the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne?
    Last edited by Wraith; 08-14-2017 at 10:22 PM.

  8. #998
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    Yes, but that was pretty much already confirmed with the presence of the knights of the White Guard at the tower of Joy. What Gilly did was discover the GoT-world proof of what readers/close watchers already knew.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  9. #999
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Even in that case daughter comes before brother right?
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  10. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    It does seem to be moving much faster than previous seasons. ............................................

    Spoiler:
    Does Tarly's wife's revelation that Raegar remarried mean that Jon isn't actually a bastard? Assuming primogeniture, is Jon the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Even in that case daughter comes before brother right?
    Spoiler:
    Agnatic-cognatic primogeniture - the dominant form of succession in Europe after kingdoms stopped being ruled by tribes - means oldest son, then his sons. It goes to the second son only if the first has no sons. And it goes to a daughter only if none of the sons (including younger ones) have sons. Rhaegar's son has precedence over Rhaegar's sister.
    Last edited by Loki; 08-15-2017 at 04:40 AM.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  11. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Even in that case daughter comes before brother right?
    Spoiler:
    Under any form of primogeniture, Rhaegar, being eldest, would take inheritance rights over his younger sister, and so would his children. The only way Daenerys can inherit the throne is if Rhaegar's entire line is dead, and Jon got better.

  12. #1002
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Sorry, of course you're right, I had the family tree mixed up.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  13. #1003
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    It explains why Ned promised Jon to tell him who his mother was 'next time they met' i.e. after Jon's birth right had been voided by his outh as a member of the Night Watch.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  14. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    It explains why Ned promised Jon to tell him who his mother was 'next time they met' i.e. after Jon's birth right had been voided by his outh as a member of the Night Watch.
    That's a good point. Is that birthright not still voided seeing that he did join the Night Watch?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  15. #1005
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    His oath only lasted until his death, and the North at least sees it as expired.

  16. #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    His oath only lasted until his death, and the North at least sees it as expired.
    Hard to prove that death to the outside world. The North doesn't give a damn. They're content with having one of their own lead them. They're kind of like Germanic tribal chiefs. Not overly concerned with the legalities. The other "kingdoms" would be much harder to convince.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  17. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Hard to prove that death to the outside world. The North doesn't give a damn. They're content with having one of their own lead them. They're kind of like Germanic tribal chiefs. Not overly concerned with the legalities. The other "kingdoms" would be much harder to convince.
    Ultimately it doesn't matter. Whoever has the power gets to choose whatever justification fits best.

  18. #1008
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    I think most of the seven kingdoms would just go with "whatever will make the frighting stop" at this point.
    The walls are coming down.
    All we need is one to fail, one to break, one to take it all away.
    What if we crumble, what if we fall? Where's the flame that torch the soul?
    Truth, when spoken, dies down to nothing.

  19. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Ultimately it doesn't matter. Whoever has the power gets to choose whatever justification fits best.
    Perhaps. But if true, it makes the whole Targaryen angle obsolete.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #1010
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    JESUS FUCKING CHRIST... and yes... despite having a perfectly legit HBO subscription I watched the leaked episode
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  21. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Perhaps. But if true, it makes the whole Targaryen angle obsolete.
    Well... dragons.

  22. #1012
    SEŃOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Defenders.

    Danny continues to foul every single scene he's in with the stench of his atrocious acting and his bullshit whining. They made an error in trying to introduce everyone in the first few minutes of the first episode, should have been spaced out better. Luke remains a little underwhelming. Matt and Jessica continue to deliver as the A-team of this cast.

    I have high hopes. If nothing else, it will be better than both IF and LC.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  23. #1013
    Unencrypted Wraith's Avatar
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    If Carrie-Anne Moss comes back again, I hope they can figure out something for her to do this time.

  24. #1014
    SEŃOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    The episodes improve steadily. Even Finn Jones seems to be benefiting from being around more seasoned and less douchey actors.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  25. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Well... dragons.
    No comment until Sunday night.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  26. #1016
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    Up to Defenders Episode 5
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The episodes improve steadily. Even Finn Jones seems to be benefiting from being around more seasoned and less douchey actors.
    I don't think he was ever the problem, and I think Defenders proves it was the writers of his show that were the problem. The Danny Rand character is being much better served by this show than his own. Luke Cage is too, actually. The chemistry between all of these characters is everything I could have hoped for.

    Still more interested in a Detective Knight series than a second Luke Cage season, but after seeing Luke and Danny together I'm even more interested in a Heroes for Hire series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    If Carrie-Anne Moss comes back again, I hope they can figure out something for her to do this time.
    To be clear, I hadn't started watching Defenders yet when I said this, and it wasn't until later I realized nobody would be able to tell if I wrote this before or after seeing the Defenders, because it applies equally well both times.

  27. #1017
    SEŃOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I don't think he was ever the problem, and I think Defenders proves it was the writers of his show that were the problem. The Danny Rand character is being much better served by this show than his own.
    Danny's character is better in this show than it was in the previous, but, while there is no doubt there were a lot of problems with the way his character was written in IF I don't think we can lay all the blame at the feet of the writers--who, it must be said, were either infantile themselves or held their audience in very low regard, believing the "average fans" to be

    young white men who feel misunderstood and want to punch things and then have pretty girls comfort them because they’re special and being special is very hard and no one understands.
    Ward, Harold and even Joy did a great job with what they were given. There was a ton of potential in Danny's unlikable and thoroughly fucked-up character that could've been used to great effect (as it was on a rare handful of occasions). Finn Jones's dumb facial expressions, clunky delivery and the ever-present aura of surly useless millennial nice guy hippie continue to mar his performance on Defenders, even though the writing and fight choreography are both better (perhaps Jones is getting more than 15-20 mins to learn the fights this time). In some scenes, the writers have to make the other characters look dumber in order to make Danny look good, but overall it's an improvement.

    I def. think the interaction with Luke will make Danny's character more tolerable and help him grow out of this painfully pubertal Marty Stu stage. Jones has described the show as being Danny Rand's puberty and I can accept that.

    We put off the series finale for today
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  28. #1018
    Unencrypted Wraith's Avatar
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    He wasn't a Marty Stu really, he was in this weird state where they kept setting things up to show him as a naive idiot, and then forgetting to do the payoff. His flaws were portrayed as actual flaws and some of the problems he faced were depicted as being his own damn fault rather than the world just not appreciating how special he was. As inconsistent as his characterization was, they were at least consistent in portraying him as a bit dim compared to everyone else. You're right that the problems with his character can't all be laid at the feet of the writers though, the director shares some of the blame too. Danny Rand wasn't the best character, but he wasn't a Marty Stu - his characters problems, IMO, were the inconsistent characterization (is he a peace-and-love hippy or is he a man-child with anger management issues?) and the lack of proper foils. Foils that he gets in Defenders with Luke Cage and JJ.

  29. #1019
    SEŃOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    He wasn't a Marty Stu really, he was in this weird state where they kept setting things up to show him as a naive idiot, and then forgetting to do the payoff. His flaws were portrayed as actual flaws and some of the problems he faced were depicted as being his own damn fault rather than the world just not appreciating how special he was. As inconsistent as his characterization was, they were at least consistent in portraying him as a bit dim compared to everyone else. You're right that the problems with his character can't all be laid at the feet of the writers though, the director shares some of the blame too. Danny Rand wasn't the best character, but he wasn't a Marty Stu - his characters problems, IMO, were the inconsistent characterization (is he a peace-and-love hippy or is he a man-child with anger management issues?) and the lack of proper foils. Foils that he gets in Defenders with Luke Cage and JJ.
    Fair enough. I appreciated those things that clearly showed him to be flawed and I could tolerate the inconsistencies, but I had greater difficulties tolerating his delivery and, above all, the way they kept pursuing the "special misunderstood angry guy" and rewarding him for that BS, shonen style regardless, the future looks bright.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  30. #1020
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    Finished Defenders. While I wasn't a big fan of the ending and how they wrapped everything up, overall I really liked it. They got a lot of things right, and the interactions between everyone were great. I was worried before about Jessica Jones season 2, because even though I was a big fan of season 1, that first season was carried as much by Kilgrave as by Jessica, so I wasn't sure how well they'd do without him. Defenders has gone a long way towards relieving those concerns, as JJ was the best character of the bunch.

    On GoT:
    S07E07:
    GoT has always been great at avoiding clichés, but last night splurged on them. The scale of distances and time was seriously screwed up - it was a long journey out but only a quick jog back for Gendry? The raven he sent and the dragons covered an awful lot of ground to just arrive in the nick of time too. Also the main character death fake-outs, only to be replaced by sudden redshirt deaths seemed un-GoTish. The whole story seemed to be falling back to standard fantasy tropes and clichés, which is disappointing, and I hope this isn't going to be a trend entering the final season.

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