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Thread: teevee sucks

  1. #1261
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  2. #1262
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    I bet anyone with a weapon capable of doing big damage on the ramparts would be a great deal more effective than archers. Especially when you have enough people up there to alternate.

    But I think the disastrously bad strategy was there to make a point about Aegon and Daenerys.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  3. #1263
    People will tell you that stories are either character based or story based. Story based... stories are ones where the characters exist to drive the plot forward. Character based stories are ones where the story exists as a framework to learn about the characters. There is a third type of story, which mainly happens in visual mediums. It is the Scene Based Story, or the Cool Moment Based Story where both plot and characters both exist just because the writers want to have certain scenes, because they think it would look cool.

    Game of Thrones, since it outpaced the books, has become one of those. Why does Arya wander around Bravos like an asshole at the end of season six, when she knows an assassin who could be anyone is after her? Because the show-runners wanted to have that cool parkour chase scene thing. Why does Sansa fail to tell anyone about the Knights of the Vale, for no reason want-so-ever? Because the show-runners wanted the last second rescue by cavalry charge thing. Why the confusing logistics of the expedition beyond the wall in season 7? Same. Why did they cut the scene where Bran tells Sansa and Arya what littlefinger has been up to? Because they wanted the scene where Littlefinger was offed to be a "Shocking Twist". Why the Dothraki suicide charge? Because the showrunners thought the visual with the lights of the flaming swords slowly going out would look cool. And so on.

    You can find explanations for any of the above if you like, but fan-fic, it's nothing that's actually supported by what's on screen.
    Have you ever seen the televised St. Vitus Subcommittee Prize Investigation Dance, those ants-in-pants glaces?
    Well, look behind the eyes: it's a hallowed, hollow anaesthetised "Save me own ass, screw these guys" smoke and mirror lock down

  4. #1264
    Spoiler:
    Quite a few reverse deus ex machinas (or just sheer stupidity) in episode 4.
    Last edited by Loki; 05-06-2019 at 03:13 AM.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #1265
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    People will tell you that stories are either character based or story based. Story based... stories are ones where the characters exist to drive the plot forward. Character based stories are ones where the story exists as a framework to learn about the characters. There is a third type of story, which mainly happens in visual mediums. It is the Scene Based Story, or the Cool Moment Based Story where both plot and characters both exist just because the writers want to have certain scenes, because they think it would look cool.

    Game of Thrones, since it outpaced the books, has become one of those. Why does Arya wander around Bravos like an asshole at the end of season six, when she knows an assassin who could be anyone is after her? Because the show-runners wanted to have that cool parkour chase scene thing. Why does Sansa fail to tell anyone about the Knights of the Vale, for no reason want-so-ever? Because the show-runners wanted the last second rescue by cavalry charge thing. Why the confusing logistics of the expedition beyond the wall in season 7? Same. Why did they cut the scene where Bran tells Sansa and Arya what littlefinger has been up to? Because they wanted the scene where Littlefinger was offed to be a "Shocking Twist". Why the Dothraki suicide charge? Because the showrunners thought the visual with the lights of the flaming swords slowly going out would look cool. And so on.

    You can find explanations for any of the above if you like, but fan-fic, it's nothing that's actually supported by what's on screen.
    Well said.
    The Rules
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    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  6. #1266
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Spoiler:
    Quite a few reverse deus ex machinas (or just sheer stupidity) in episode 4.
    Expand.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  7. #1267
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Expand.
    Spoiler:
    1. The ballistas went from being able to hurt a dragon with a direct hit to vulnerable areas to taking one out by hitting it in the chest.
    2. Daenerys learned absolutely nothing from losing dragon 1. Neither did she learn anything from having her Iron Islands/Dornish fleet ambushed last season. Invest in some freaking scout ships.
    3. Cersei somehow knew who Missandei was and managed to capture her (and capture her alive at that).

    Then there's the inexplicable behavior.
    1. Cersei clearly doesn't care for diplomacy. Why not kill Tyrion?
    2. Daenerys's army was all but annihilated in episode 3, but it turns out half of it survived.
    3. The Golden Company alone has 20k men. The Lannisters have thousands. So does the city guard. Cersei has the largest fleet in the world. How the hell is Jon Snow intending to surround King's Landing with a smaller force and blockade it with a far smaller fleet?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  8. #1268
    Spoiler:
    1. The ballistas went from being able to hurt a dragon with a direct hit to vulnerable areas to taking one out by hitting it in the chest.
    Yeah that's become a formidable, ubiquitous weapon with a very fast re-load.

    2. Daenerys learned absolutely nothing from losing dragon 1. Neither did she learn anything from having her Iron Islands/Dornish fleet ambushed last season. Invest in some freaking scout ships. Yeah, WTF. How are they so blind but the bad guys seem to know exactly where they are are the time?

    Then there's the inexplicable behavior.
    1. Cersei clearly doesn't care for diplomacy. Why not kill Tyrion? Yes, I would have applauded had she killed Tyrion, who she flipping hates anyway. She sent the assassin to kill him FFS, she's not concerned about burning all the bridges of negotiation, obviously. It would have been courageous and awesome had they ended the Imp's story then and there.

    EDIT: The other thing that nags me about those ballistas is scale. In the representation on the show, the sky is too small. Imagine trying to shoot an eagle out of the sky with a crossbow, one that knows you're shooting at it. Now imagine that crossbow is bolted down to the ground, is super heavy, and you have to aim using a mechanism that swivels it and angles it vertically. It would not be an easy shot at all. But the show represents it as highly effective dragon repellent.

    And I can't imagine how those ships were able to take the dragons by surprise. Really? A whole fleet of huge ships and nobody noticed it? What, dragons only fly anywhere at tree-top level? No need to fly five thousand feet up to get a look around? Come on. That's lazy writing, bending credulity to more easily fit the plot.


    Last edited by EyeKhan; 05-06-2019 at 05:36 PM.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  9. #1269
    Spoiler:
    Let's be fair, he was riddled with ballista bolts from a dozen different ships
    Have you ever seen the televised St. Vitus Subcommittee Prize Investigation Dance, those ants-in-pants glaces?
    Well, look behind the eyes: it's a hallowed, hollow anaesthetised "Save me own ass, screw these guys" smoke and mirror lock down

  10. #1270
    Spoiler:

    Regrettably, the 'there must always be a starbucks in winterfell' etc jokes have already been done
    Have you ever seen the televised St. Vitus Subcommittee Prize Investigation Dance, those ants-in-pants glaces?
    Well, look behind the eyes: it's a hallowed, hollow anaesthetised "Save me own ass, screw these guys" smoke and mirror lock down

  11. #1271
    Spoiler:
    Let's be fair, he was riddled with ballista bolts from a dozen different ships
    Right, a huge fleet that somehow got line of site, within very effective firing distance, without the dragons or their master, or anyone, noticing until one of them was being shot to pieces. No wonder dragons went extinct, they're fucking blind and deaf. And weird how the fleet, with it's dozen bolts, didn't bother targeting both dragons. Or better yet, why not shoot the one with the enemy queen riding, instead of the other one? Come on...
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  12. #1272
    is that you, cinema sins?
    Have you ever seen the televised St. Vitus Subcommittee Prize Investigation Dance, those ants-in-pants glaces?
    Well, look behind the eyes: it's a hallowed, hollow anaesthetised "Save me own ass, screw these guys" smoke and mirror lock down

  13. #1273
    Yeah tbh episode 4 was the weakest episode of the season.

  14. #1274
    I thought Ep4 was a much better episode than Ep3 - fleets of ships appearing out of nowhere and super amazing ballistas notwithstanding. This was more an episode of human storytelling than silly and unlikely battle-scenes, which you can take or leave really.

    And human villainy (Cersei) is always more evocative than supernatural (the night king).

    I never really felt hate for the night king. His entire presence in the story is at a remove, he's not involved, he just stands there saying nothing and looking slightly gormless when he's featured. His evil and resulting actions are inhuman because he is not human, so you just don't care, really. His demise was met with a shrug of my shoulders.

    With Cersei it's different. She is human. Her evil is human. And that certainly matters.

    Spoiler:
    And so the sheer hatred pouring out of Daenerys toward Cersei at the end of Ep4 is palpable, and that readily translates to the viewer. This was a very, very watchable scene. Emilia Clarke has some remarkable talent - every emotion passes across her face in a matter of moments. She always absorbs me in her play. Another very human character - emotional and not always rational.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely
    Then there's the inexplicable behavior.
    1. Cersei clearly doesn't care for diplomacy. Why not kill Tyrion? Yes, I would have applauded had she killed Tyrion, who she flipping hates anyway. She sent the assassin to kill him FFS, she's not concerned about burning all the bridges of negotiation, obviously. It would have been courageous and awesome had they ended the Imp's story then and there.
    I agree that would have been brave and I too would have applauded it. But as it was, face to face with Tyrion, his words have meaning to her on some level; she has love - toward her children due and past at least. She could order his assassination from a remove, yes, but maybe not with him present and supplicant toward her. So I didn't find her holding back from killing him as inexplicable in the slightest. She has always been a complex character.

    ~

    Anyone else think Jamie's arc is going to have far-reaching repercussions? His riding off to King's Landing suddenly - I think he will be central to what happens to Cersei at the end.

    I also thought his departure being met with Lady (now sir) Brienne's sobbing was another marvelous scene. Her permanent haughty and aloof demeanour, never allowing herself to show any warmth or emotion, hopelessly reduced to a love-struck wailing teenager with all her naďveté laid bare. Great teevee.

    All in all a good episode. Made up for the overriding disappointment of Ep3 somewhat.
    Last edited by Timbuk2; 05-08-2019 at 07:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  15. #1275
    Really good take on the last season of GoT:

    https://www.theringer.com/game-of-th...quickly-pacing
    Hope is the denial of reality

  16. #1276
    I'm going to be disappointed when I use my next free trial of HBO to watch the last season, aren't I? I was really hoping they would have learned from their fuckups last season, but it sounds like they just decided to make every episode the same as the Beyond the Wall episode with the FTL dragons.
    Last edited by Wraith; 05-10-2019 at 02:08 AM.

  17. #1277
    Episode 1 does a great job of setting up the rest of the season. Episode 2 is good, but kind of repetitive. Episode 3 is mediocre, though with some good highlights. Episode 4 is kind of like 3, only with no highlights.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  18. #1278
    Now *that's* what I was wanting to see.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  19. #1279
    The second half of the episode was clearly entirely based on Martin's notes. The battle part was disturbingly inane even by the standards of this season.

    Spoiler:
    I take it the show just gave up on the Ellaria Sand imprisoned in King's Landing angle?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #1280
    Dexter Producers: Let's make the worst ending possible.

    Game of Thrones Producers: Hold my beer.

    What. The. Fuck. Even the little shit like Jaime saying "I never really cared about those people" oh yeah that's why you hunted down the pyro fucks and earned your title of King Slayer. Continuity... fucking get some.

  21. #1281
    I was hoping for some wholesale dragon slaughter, and got it. Just sayin'.

    It does occur to me...

    Spoiler:
    ...there really isn't an Iron Throne anymore, right? Looked like the whole damn Red Keep collapsed on the Lanister Twins. And probably half the citizens are dead, and the city in ash, so....

    I thought the Euron Grayjoy fight was dumb. I assume Ellaria Sand is dead now. I actually assumed she was tortured to death by Cersei (or rather, Zombie Mountain) back when she was captured, and that sort of wrapped up that story line. Forgot about it, actually, like the show runners.

    EDIT: one other thought, it does feel like a let down, I mean the whole damn show was Dany building power and learning the lessons of being queen, through all the trials and tribulations, some of the them like pulling teeth, but she was always good. And here we are, finally where she's reached here goal, but instead she's falling apart in maniacal, burning destruction and paving the way for a much more level-headed man to take over...

    Is there any gender bias here? What about hair color? All the blonds are evil, all the curly brunettes are good.
    Last edited by EyeKhan; 05-13-2019 at 11:12 AM.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  22. #1282
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Even the little shit like Jaime saying "I never really cared about those people" oh yeah that's why you hunted down the pyro fucks and earned your title of King Slayer. Continuity... fucking get some.
    It's not continuity so much as taking a rounded, complex character and reducing him to a more paper-thin good guy/ bad guy hollywood kind of character.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  23. #1283
    blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Spoiler:

    EDIT: one other thought, it does feel like a let down, I mean the whole damn show was Dany building power and learning the lessons of being queen, through all the trials and tribulations, some of the them like pulling teeth, but she was always good. And here we are, finally where she's reached here goal, but instead she's falling apart in maniacal, burning destruction and paving the way for a much more level-headed man to take over...
    Spoiler:
    I'm sorry, but this was perhaps the most obvious part of her story. Ignoring that its standard GRRM to build up and then rip down, no one who has been paying attention, to her family history or her vision, thought she was going to come out on top stable and in charge
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 05-13-2019 at 03:59 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  24. #1284
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah



    Spoiler:
    I'm sorry, but this was perhaps the most obvious part of her story. Ignoring that its standard GRRM to build up and then rip down, no one who has been paying attention, to her family history or her vision, thought she was going to come out on top stable and in charge
    Certainly the outcome was foreshadowed, especially in the last few seasons, but all that time - too much show time - fooling around freeing the slaves, learning to govern, etc etc. Maybe it's because the pace of the show shifted so radically in the last two seasons, it just seems like wasted time.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  25. #1285
    I think the issue is that the episode highlights really poor character development. The crazy woman on a rampage is so cliche and overused. It's lazy writing, there is so much they could have used to get to the same result, they just had to dig deeper.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  26. #1286
    Have you ever seen the televised St. Vitus Subcommittee Prize Investigation Dance, those ants-in-pants glaces?
    Well, look behind the eyes: it's a hallowed, hollow anaesthetised "Save me own ass, screw these guys" smoke and mirror lock down

  27. #1287
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    I think the issue is that the episode highlights really poor character development. The crazy woman on a rampage is so cliche and overused. It's lazy writing, there is so much they could have used to get to the same result, they just had to dig deeper.
    Hell they could have done that trope and I wouldn't be mad if they had done some good building up to it. This was just so hamfisted.

  28. #1288
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    I think the issue is that the episode highlights really poor character development. The crazy woman on a rampage is so cliche and overused. It's lazy writing, there is so much they could have used to get to the same result, they just had to dig deeper.
    Well said.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  29. #1289
    Looks like the showrunners got bored of the show the same way Martin got bored of the book series. Only difference is the former had HBO breathing down their necks, which forced them to finish the show, even if it meant taking a nap while the CGI crew got 99% of the budget and emphasis. They could have used 10 episodes/season, which worked well for the first 6 seasons. Instead, they did the bare minimum. And now they have a Star Wars trilogy to produce.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  30. #1290
    As I've heard it, HBO offered to give them full 10 episode orders for this season and last. HBO also offered the two D's a contract that would have given them up to season 10. The show runners just wanted to be done with it, and didn't want to let somebody who cared finish the series for them, so this is what we got instead.

    Still haven't seen it myself - what's the verdict? Worth blowing my next free trial of HBO on, or should I just skip it to preserve my memories of the first six seasons?

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