Hi Beta, you could have tested your avatar in the other sub-forums, but maybe you've been under the evil spell of that other place too long.
I think they were well intentioned people who ran in without thinking it through very well. Sort of elitist, regardless of their religious affiliations. Lots of Americans have the same attitude; that any poor child should be "saved" from their homeland and brought to the US to live the middle class American Dream.
Even Holywood stars do it.
I'm pretty sure that a minor post to test the avatar, that was I actually going to go back and edit until someone threw a stupid kenipsion fit, won't destroy the thread or turn people's world's upside down. On the other hand, perhaps it shall.
I think there might be something more sinister, if only because of the multiple children saying they had living parents and so forth. Well intentioned sinisterness, sure, but we all know what Hell is paved with right?
The whole "saving" a child is more complicated that you're making it out. A person I worked under who's a billionairess supports a child in Africa (and not 100 of them; just one so the relationship is true and good) who's still in Africa, but is probably coming to America soon for college. Coming for college makes sense. I think our perception of the percentage of children supported AND brought to America is skewed because of the high profile instances of Hollywood stars. IMO, of course
They kidnapped people's children. That's not innocently moronic. It's guiltily moronic, at the least, since it's definitely criminal. I'm not sure what you mean by "something more sinister" though.Originally Posted by X900BTA
I needed to test my AvatarHuman trafficking is horrible, of course. What're people's take the baptist church fiasco? Innocent morons or something more sinister?
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
It was a warranted "kenipsion" fit. If Ness hadn't said something about the crassness of your first post, I would have. We all know who you are and where you come from. But for you that may not be a good thing. Not here, where we can actually post our opinions.
Back on topic. I don't see any sinister motive from what I've read. Hardly any of the Haiti kids have proper documents, and there are some desperate parents who might hand their child to anyone going to America. These are the same Haitian Boat People who'd pack an inflatable raft with 30 people and hope the Coast Guard might rescue them at sea....
It's still a fluid and confusing situation over there. It doesn't seem like even the "officials" know what's going on, let alone the NGOs or charity groups. That's why they also halted the medvacs for a while.
"something more sinister" means that they knew exactly, or some of them at the least, what they were doing. If so that makes this a far more terrible issue and they should be fully prosecuted under the law.
The "crassness" of my post? It wasn't even on topic. I'm going to post my opinion then; to both of you. Put a damn sock in it and relax, jesus h. christ. Here's another opinion then; You gotta earn my respect, too. And if you don't? Up yours.It was a warranted "kenipsion" fit. If Ness hadn't said something about the crassness of your first post, I would have. We all know who you are and where you come from. But for you that may not be a good thing. Not here, where we can actually post our opinions.
They don't usually, and not in this quantity in such a singular group, NOT go with their kids on said boats.
Yes. My opinion. Deal with it.
Exactly. It was odd that your first post as a new member was in a fairly serious thread, and you made an inappropriate joke.It wasn't even on topic.
You know who I and Nessus are from the old place. The New Place, it's not like the Old Place. But even if you ignore that history, I'll let my posting history HERE speak for itself. Read that first before you rush in, the clock here didn't begin the moment you registered.I'm going to post my opinion then; to both of you. Put a damn sock in it and relax, jesus h. christ. Here's another opinion then; You gotta earn my respect, too. And if you don't? Up yours.
I have. Up yours.
I didn't see any really not serious threads, and as I said I planned to edit the post but while I was about to do that someone jumped on my ass as if I'd shat on their dinner. And then someone else did.Exactly. It was odd that your first post as a new member was in a fairly serious thread, and you made an inappropriate joke.
Oh, it's speaking loud and clear. Read first before I rush it. Oh, that's cute. How about both of you relax before you take up arms as if I trafficked someone myself. OH NO! A non-serious post! God, the shit we let you all get away with and never said boo. Well, enjoy your power trip I guess.You know who I and Nessus are from the old place. The New Place, it's not like the Old Place. But even if you ignore that history, I'll let my posting history HERE speak for itself. Read that first before you rush in, the clock here didn't begin the moment you registered.
You're not a newcomer to forums or how they work, you can see the place for General Chat vs Debate and Discussion. It's super easy when there are only 3 sub-forums. Surely you looked around first....
I know exactly what's going on here, and before you hijack this thread any longer, and bring old baggage to the New Place from the Old Place, try posting where the rant at least matches the thread:
http://www.theworldforgotten.com/sho...ull=1#post5893
Here's a notiion, why don't you stay on topic GGT? Here's my last post on topic to you: "They don't usually, and not in this quantity in such a singular group, NOT go with their kids on said boats. ". Feel free to get this thread back on topic and get off your power kick. Thanks!
It's been a while since I've read news of Haitian Boat People, but they did, indeed, put infants and children in leaky rafts. And hoped for the best. The quake magnified everything by multiples of hundreds of thousands.
I just don't see the sinister element you suggested. They're in jail and will apparently be tried in court, or have to make some sort of plea deal, so we'll find out then. I'm glad they didn't just have their wrists slapped, with officials looking the other way.
This, from the person who earned a lecture back on CC for making an inappropriate attack as a regular poster against another, and then invoking mod authority and punishing the other poster for lese majesty when they responded?
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
All that baggage and venting and sinking refugee lifeboats from The Other Place is now in General Chat:
http://www.theworldforgotten.com/for...7d132b3c57170a
not sure I made the link right but it's General Chat
Never apologize.I needed to test my Avatar
Oh bolloks. Pony boy.
Inappropriate.... huh. Where are we again?
Come on. While I know this is something you care about, and X-Box's joke was stupid and insensitive and all, but why so rigid and angry? Roll your eyes and ignore if you feel that way... This is out of character for you, I think. At least the character of you I keep in my head and like.You know who I and Nessus are from the old place. The New Place, it's not like the Old Place. But even if you ignore that history, I'll let my posting history HERE speak for itself. Read that first before you rush in, the clock here didn't begin the moment you registered.
I've conducted an analysis of this post and have concluded its too much for once sentence; at least for us simple folks to comprehend easily. If you wrote a whole essay with these sentences my brain would first hurt, then get confused, and then tell my eyes to just forget it.
On topic: The Haiti missionaries were naive - either out of insensitve arrogance, conviction or stupidity - and will be spanked for it. I think that incident is a non-issue; more of a curiosity. Afterall, they meant well and the real problem is very much the opposite.
Human trafficing in general - should we call it modern slavery? - is mind blowing. People as a commodity? But its more than that, isn't it? All people are a commodity in one way or another, right or wrong. But slaves don't get to choose and they are used for illegal services or legal services under illegal conditions. In all cases its so absolutely and obviously immoral I just can't understand the customer base. What the fuck kind of people buy child slaves? For anything?
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
What kind of people buy childslaves? Obviously thousands of people everywhere. And maybe they even think they are doing the child a favor because they move up from abject poverty to just being dirt-poor with a full belly. People have an amazing capacity to rationalize their most wicked behaviour.
Congratulations America
I guess you don't remember the thread about camel jockies for UAE.
http://www.ansarburney.org/news/camel-jockeys.html
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Isn't that the freakin' truth. The things people do and still believe they're the 'good guys.' Fucking amazing. And scary.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Never heard of it.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Oh come on...like you've never said something snarky...
Or made light of a serious subject.
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
Yep.A Mexican national was sentenced to five years in federal prison to charges of transporting young women from Mexico for prostitution.
Miguel Rugerio was sentenced Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Atlanta.
Prosecutors say Rugerio used promises of better lives and a romantic relationship to lure young women to the U.S. while knowing he would cause them to become prostitutes.
He pleaded guilty in October to the plot, admitting that from July 2006 to August 2008, he conspired with others to use force, fraud and coercion to lure women to the Atlanta area from Mexico.
Good to know forcing women into prostitution is worth so very little time.
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
He won't serve five years either. With good behavior, he'll be out running slaves again in no time.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Hard to tell from the article if he really did it or merely conspired.
Congratulations America
There were something like 5 women - trying to find a story from when he plead guilty.
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/sex-...ty-178048.html
Interestingly, the articles written in Spanish - both American and Mexican - have many more details than the English ones do.Rugerio admitted in his plea that, from July 2006 to August 2008, he and five others used "force, fraud and coercion" to bring five young women from Mexico to Atlanta. He promised his victims better lives and romantic intrigue, say prosecutors.
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
Well this one is a lot more clear about the facts. Strange that they only convicted him for the illegally transporting them for the purpose of prostitution. You'd expect a charge on the basis of these women being forced into prostitution, violence etc etc. Is there a second case or weren't the women willing to testify ? That could explain the leniency in the sentencing.
I don't know how it works in the US, but here in Holland at first we had the problem with these cases that very often the women were deported so it would be near impossible to get the traffickers convicted. Now women who report sex-trafficking are protected from being deported and the cases have become easier to deal with.
Congratulations America
I'd assume the charges he was convicted of were a result of his plea deal. I'm not finding the answer to that even in the articles in Spanish. Considering how screwy we are about Mexicans, though, I'd imagine the women were deported for being in the country illegally. That's just me being cynical, though; I have seen nothing stating that anywhere.
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
Likely they were, and then they realised they couldn't pin the actual forced prostitution on him. After which he got off easy with just smuggling them accross. Hence the low sentence.
Just read one of the articles in Spanish; the sentence is incredible considering the crime. Tens of girls forced into prostitution over a number of years; forced sex for up to 20 times a day for $30 per customer. Incredible really he got off with only 5 years.
Congratulations America
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cb_haiti_americans_detained
It gets better and better.
"The Haitian lawyer, Edwin Coq, denied the allegation. He said the $60,000 he requested from the Americans' families was his fee."
Per capita income in Haiti is like $1,350.00 USD, how can $60k be his fee? If Per capita income in America is say $55k (not sure what it is these days) that'd be like a lawyer charing 40x standard per capita income, or $2.2m
But there are 10 defendants so that's only like $200K each. That doesn't sound unreasonable.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
I have no idea how 60,000/10 = 200,000...
But that all seems irrelevant, the people he is charging are from the U.S.
It does to me. Most lawyers in America don't charge $200k per client.
The reason is on a per capita basis. The fact that they're from the U.S. doesn't matter. He's a Haitian lawyer, and as with all work the wages are local rather than based on other countries simply because the contract is with another country/govt./person. Basically I think it was a bribe because the cost he charged is way way too high.
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