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Thread: How Do You Feel About Lobbying?

  1. #1

    Default How Do You Feel About Lobbying?

    I was just thinking about lobbying and considering whether the lobbying system is a broken thing, whether it is necessary, and whether it is something that ought to or can be fixed. From the lay person's perspective, myself, I get the following impressions about our system of lobbying. For those of you who study this stuff, feel free to correct or elaborate as needed:


    Layperson Impressions of Lobbying:

    1. A lobbyist can have a great deal of influence on a congressman; the kind of influence that can only be balanced by intra-party pressures, congressional peer pressure, executive branch pressures, mass protest, or the influences of other lobbyists. This means the influence exerted by the individual, via writing or calling your congressman, or participating at a town hall meeting, is extremely dilute by comparison.

    2. Loosely, the more money a lobbyist has at his/her disposal, the more influence he/she has. I've read that big lobbying firms go far beyond waiting in the lobby to catch a congressman going from point A to B, acting as PR firms for their respective clients, relating to congress as the public. The implication here is that very wealthy clients hire the lobbying firms with the most resources and thereby gain the more influence.

    3. Lobbying firms often hire former congressmen, congressional staff and/or federal agency and military employees to lobby the institutions they are intimately familiar with, which from a recruiting standpoint only makes sense. But the practice also holds out an implicit golden carrot to current congressmen and federal staff that if they play very nice with the big lobbying firm then they too will get a sweetheart job when they move on from government work. In other words, the ability to go on to such work is an inherrent conflict of interest.

    4. Lobbying firms do much more than just convey the opinions of their clients and put on PR campaigns. Depending on the congressional officials, or on the executive branch officials, they actually write portions of legislation. The effect here is that with gigantic bills with thousands of pages of text the congressman who is introducing the legislation may not have any idea what details a lobbying firm may have hidden in it to benefit some select client. In that case we have unelected and highly specialized interests not only possessing enormous influence on congress but able in some cases to actually create parts of legislation specifically for clients.


    So What to Do?

    Those lay-perspectives disclosed, with the full acknowledgement that they could be partially or entirely wrong, I'm wondering what the folks here think about abolishing lobbying altogether. I don't mean to leave a complete "influence vacuum" and I don't mean to say that groups of individuals should not be able to pool their resources to lean on congress for their pet interests, but that there's a better way to go than our current lobbying methodology.

    It's certainly true that sometimes constituents don't know their own best interests and the majority might want their representative to vote in a way opposite of what they ultimately decide, but that's why we have representatives (vs. enacting legislation by popular vote, right?). The masses can be dumb sometimes, to put it crudely.

    And that's also why we have lobbyists, right? They should be a source of specialized, theoretically more knowledgable, influence on the Congressman. So we have the influence of the masses to consider and the influence of those closer to a particular issue who may know better than the majority. Then we have niche influences from groups who arn't experts or particularly impacted by a bill, but whose wants run counter to the majority or the experts.

    Given the above categories, why couldn't we take care of all their desires to influence congress like this:

    A. Require local opinion polls be taken for every congressional vote to gauge the community's opinion for each issue and require the results be made very public well before the vote.

    B. Allow any industries or institutions or other private entities directly affected by proposed legislation, and with expertise in whatever the legislation pertains to, to make public appeals to their local Congressmen to influence their vote. This would entail some sort of televised meeting with each interest that the public and opposing interests may all observe, but not interrupt, with written transcripts and back up material made available to everyone.

    C. Allow minority groups not necessarily directly affected by legislation, but who still have an interest, to voice their opinions in a similar forum as B.

    D. Letter writing and phone calling by private individuals not as experts or professionals on behalf of a special interest would be allowed as normal. And public protesting would be allowed as it is today as well.

    A,B, and C should probably be done in several rounds to allow some point and counterpoint. Allowing interest groups to debate and answer questions from their congressman might be effective too, maybe in a forum not unlike how parties argue before the Supreme Court.

    *I think one possible drawback may be the time it takes to do this sort of thing correctly, giving everyone the proper amount of time and each issue enough rounds.

    **Another possible drawback may be the sheer number of 'groups' with opinions that might pop up. There would need to be some sort of certification process, maybe handled by the court system, requiring proof of expertise or petition signatures.


    Some perceived/ intended benefits:

    A key result is there would be no private meetings or communications between congressmen, or their staffs, and a group or an individual backed by a group, intending to influence their vote. All attempts to influence the congressman would be open and public and subject to analysis and cross examination in the public arena. Furthermore, there would be:

    1. Much less opportunity for good old boy networks to form

    2. Much smaller opportunity for golden carrot conflicts of interest (revolving door)

    3. Much less opportunity for other secret or implied quid pro quos

    4. Much less influence strictly by virtue of having the cash to hire the best lobbying firm

    5. The localization of influence on a congressman - interests from outside the district or the state would perhaps be allowed to plead their position in B or even C above, but their status as outside the district would be made plain.

    6. A much more open political discourse allowing every major interest to express their positions and have their positions subjected to cross examination before a bill is voted on.


    Note on Electoral Reform:

    The above would work best in conjunction with electoral reform, particularly with advancing to an entirely publicly financed campaign system. Also there should be complete disclosure of funding for political advertising, restrictions on when advertisements can be placed (i.e. black out periods maybe two weeks before an election), restrictions on what sort of entity can run political advertisements, how much add time they can buy, and an independant fact checking system that would fine and publicly chastise any entity making blatantly false add claims.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  2. #2
    It seems kind of insane that it's legal to bribe legislation.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  3. #3
    You didn't seriously read the whole thing that fast did you?
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  4. #4
    You want to derail your own thread? It's not that long.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  5. #5
    Wow. I seriously, with all my heart, wish I could read that fast.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    It seems kind of insane that it's legal to bribe legislation.
    The concept of lobbying, as far as I can tell, and to try not to be cynical, was not intended to allow for legal bribery, or any of the other unseemly influences I described in the OP. That's just how it has shaken out over the years.... And an institution with too much influence on the law making process is a difficult thing to reform with legislation, for obvious reasons.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    The concept of lobbying, as far as I can tell, and to try not to be cynical, was not intended to allow for legal bribery, or any of the other unseemly influences I described in the OP. That's just how it has shaken out over the years.... And an institution with too much influence on the law making process is a difficult thing to reform with legislation, for obvious reasons.
    Well, let's look at the (barely) analogous institution in the US, pharmaceutical reps.

    If we ascribe even half-decent morals to all parties involved, it's feasible that they're informing doctors of new drugs and new treatment options that a) the doctors themselves do not have time to research b) hospitals can't afford staff to do that research. So the doctor makes an informed judgment based on what different reps tell him, preferably via peer-reviewed methods. Now this isn't how it works, but this is the ideal.

    Now, lobbying? You're chucking money at having your voice heard, which is the same thing as buying the ear of a legislator. There's no scenario where an unheard, down-trodden can afford lobbying vs. the legislators (and their extensive staff) doing research on their plight.

    Or is there?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  8. #8
    Actually, Nessus, a lot of the public opinion polling and background research on a particular topic isn't done by congressional offices (which aren't exactly rolling in dough) but by outside groups - both through various government agencies as well as private interests (private foundations, interest groups, etc.). So they do add something to the debate.

    I think the proposed 'solution' above is needlessly cumbersome and likely to fail miserably while simultaneously bringing our already turtle-speed legislative process to a screeching halt. Honestly, the simplest solution is probably including more transparency and reducing the financial pressure they can bring to bear.
    Last edited by wiggin; 05-10-2011 at 08:45 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Actually, Nessus, a lot of the public opinion polling and background research on a particular topic isn't done by congressional offices (which aren't exactly rolling on dough) but by outside groups - both through various government agencies as well as private interests (private foundations, interest groups, etc.). So they do add something to the debate.
    I do wonder about the sign of their contribution. Although I suppose special interests groups would fare well due to the bell curve, whereas the financially destitute would be at the mercy of cultural whims.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  10. #10
    Actually, that's wrong, I just remembered Roy Cohn. Never mind!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  11. #11
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    I think you'll risk throwing out the child with the bath water if you try to limit lobbying. I think the only type of lobbying that should illegal is the type where the elected official personally benefits from exchanges. Even though it makes me feel a bit uneasy to think of oil companies writing suggested legislation on oil drilling, that doesn't mean that they are not very well equiped to provide a service that we may all benefit from. We just should retain a bit of scepticism while we consider their contributions.
    Congratulations America

  12. #12
    This was a really well thought out post. I don't think lobbying is bribery, but I do think influencers can get too close to an issue. But ultimately I think transparency and the ability to be humiliated for having too-close ties to the people in power are pretty strong mitigators of undue influence.

    I think all the solutions Khan has proposed sort of demonstrates how nebulous this idea of "lobbying" really is. Everything in the lost of solutions is is admirable in theory, but in reality it would be extremely clunky. It would clog legislation to a huge degree to hold mandatory opinion polls about every single vote. It would be enormously disruptive to require actual physical airtime to be devoted to any particular issue being debated in the dozens of committees in our legislature.

    And it's really in the very clogged/complex nature of our legislative system that lobbying reaches a nadir. You hear these stories of lobbyists helping to write laws because the legislative process and the issues at hand are too complex. That complexity is an opening for lobbyists to serve an ostensibly useful (and possibly unethical) role and help write legislation that would actually work in the industries they represent.

    After all, Mr. Joe Congressman doesn't actually know about mineral extraction safety techniques. But if he's dead-set on regulating it, he's going to have to have someone actually help draft legislation that isn't completely moronic. He'll be embarrassed if the legislation makes no sense to the industry being regulated.

    And not to make this too ideological, but I really do think the sheer size of government has a role in this. When government becomes exceedingly large and sprawling, the places were lobbyists can play an unhealthy role in our system multiplies. Every time the government steps into something with funding or regulations, everyone impacted has an interest in establishing a symbiotic relationship with a legislator.

    After all, a decade ago most new technology companies ignored Washington. Now newer companies like Facebook set up Washington operations as soon as they can to avoid being "Microsofted".

  13. #13
    The only way to "stop" lobbying if that option D of yours or something more strict. Basically, no group and no individual who may somehow represent a group, can talk with a Congress-critter via anything but a public forum. And I suspect you all know where I'm going with this. The Supreme Court would and should smack any such legislation down, hard. The government absolutely cannot be allowed to suppress political speech. There is NO way to do so that does not make it easier to clamp down on political speech that the government may consider uncomfortable. You don't like lobbying, fine. But don't for a second think your dislike of how it affects the political process is sufficient to allow the government to suppress speech.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  14. #14
    I wonder if I should just start a serious thread claiming to create a theory that supersedes evolution. I'm sure there's nothing interesting that's been written on the subject. I'll just base my opinion on what I've read in the news.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I wonder if I should just start a serious thread claiming to create a theory that supersedes evolution. I'm sure there's nothing interesting that's been written on the subject. I'll just base my opinion on what I've read in the news.
    Lysenkoism?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  16. #16
    Relevance?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  17. #17
    Theories claiming to be scientific rooted in ideological obsessions?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  18. #18
    Are you seriously claiming that all current theories of lobbying are ideology-driven? Considering the make-up of academia, I would like to know which ideology that would be.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Are you seriously claiming
    This is mostly a phenomenological observation, but it seems that whenever you have to ask that,

    1) the answer is no

    2) you are in fact staging a straw-man to pummel in order to further your own agenda

    So
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I wonder if I should just start a serious thread claiming to create a theory that supersedes evolution. I'm sure there's nothing interesting that's been written on the subject. I'll just base my opinion on what I've read in the news.
    Chaloobs is outlining what he thinks lobbying is, why he thinks it's a problem and possible solutions. He's writing in depth, I don't think that's something that should be mocked.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Chaloobs is outlining what he thinks lobbying is, why he thinks it's a problem and possible solutions. He's writing in depth, I don't think that's something that should be mocked.
    Someone who's truly interested in a topic and thinks it's an important issue to address wouldn't die from reading what other people have written on the subject. You know, people who actually spent decades thinking and writing about this issue. I'm by no means saying that those people must be correct or that Chaloobi should blindly accept their research, but it wouldn't hurt to be informed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    This is mostly a phenomenological observation, but it seems that whenever you have to ask that,

    1) the answer is no

    2) you are in fact staging a straw-man to pummel in order to further your own agenda

    So
    Do you have a point?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Do you have a point?
    Obviously no, so why bother?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  23. #23
    Maybe you can make it clearly...Or am I meant to read your mind?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  24. #24
    Maybe it would, too, get turned into some straw-man?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  25. #25
    Well, enjoy playing your games. It doesn't look like you expect an actual response.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    [...]

    Note on Electoral Reform:

    The above would work best in conjunction with electoral reform, particularly with advancing to an entirely publicly financed campaign system.
    I would support publicly financed campaigns replacing what we've got now. (I'd agree it's 'broken', or at least borked.) That opens up other dilemmas, though....how to finance it, how funds are distributed, would there be limits or caps, etc. Then lobbying might truly be about Free Speech, and not buying legislators' favor. Special interest groups could still pay lobbyists to wait around and meet with congress, advocating their agendas and voicing their opinions about bills and votes. That's supposed to be what our legislators actually DO --- meet and listen to constituents, act as representatives. But paid lobbyists from uber-wealthy groups shouldn't have more clout than anyone else, just because they can raise more money to fill candidates' War Chests.

    The revolving door is infuriating, but also makes some sense (about being knowledgable and informed in an area, also probably why we have so many attorneys that run for office). When it comes to lobbyists helping write bills, I think they're doing it backward. Instead of a lobbyist "paying for the privilege" of writing legislation, it would make more sense for the legislator to pay the lobbying expert for their expertise, openly disclose everything, and use the funds from their own budgets. (Not sure what the Rules are for that, though. Would they have to be hired as a temporary staffer or something?)

    Maybe that sounds naive, but something has to work better than what we've got now....when all things seem to trace back to Big Money and Big Donors. Something has to work better than private money that elects our officials, then finding out we've got something more like corporate welfare or crony capitalism, private profits and public losses. And the minute they're elected, they start working on their re-election campaign, hunting and grooming donors.

    <Big Insurance and Big Pharma helping draft chunks of the Healthcare Reform Act, getting exclusions for certain groups, using their money and clout to turn it into Insurance Reform (but only barely that)....Big Oil helping draft Regulation for MMS safety and EPA standards, royalties and tax breaks, and what happens when a rig explodes in the Gulf....Big Banks and Financial firms helping write legislation that benefits them but not the citizen or taxpayer, and the whole thing melts down in a global mess.>

    Also there should be complete disclosure of funding for political advertising, restrictions on when advertisements can be placed (i.e. black out periods maybe two weeks before an election), restrictions on what sort of entity can run political advertisements, how much add time they can buy, and an independant fact checking system that would fine and publicly chastise any entity making blatantly false add claims.
    I'm not sure black-out periods for ads would work, that sounds too restrictive. Besides, there would still be print ads, posters and yard signs, not just tv ad time. (But I do have a problem with media coverage during elections, when some poll stations are still opened and voting, and they start picking winners in the closed polls. That can unduly influence things, IMO.) And I don't think we can start saying who can run ads and who can't, that's not only heavy-handed but people would find another way, anyway. Just like the smaller off-shoots of newly created "political action groups" that come from the Koch Brothers. Better to just require full disclosure of who's paying for the ad, including their "parent group".

    We supposedly already have an independent fact checking system with our Free Press, and the Federal Election Committee to check on campaign fraud. (They need to do better jobs!) But we also have tons of bloggers and twitterers that look and act like "independent news sources", so it would be nice to have a central clearing house that could be trusted.

  27. #27
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Well, enjoy playing your games. It doesn't look like you expect an actual response.
    Well... considering your track record?
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Chaloobs is outlining what he thinks lobbying is, why he thinks it's a problem and possible solutions. He's writing in depth, I don't think that's something that should be mocked.
    Of course he shouldn't be mocked. Should anyone be mocked or belittled for starting a thread meant to spark debate or discussion?

    I expected Loki or Fuzzy to rush in and blast him for using the term FEEL instead of Think.


  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I wonder if I should just start a serious thread claiming to create a theory that supersedes evolution. I'm sure there's nothing interesting that's been written on the subject. I'll just base my opinion on what I've read in the news.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Chaloobs is outlining what he thinks lobbying is, why he thinks it's a problem and possible solutions. He's writing in depth, I don't think that's something that should be mocked.
    When I opened this thread I wondered what sort of attack Loki would blow in with - not if, but what. One thing that can be said Loki is that he is consistent. Too bad he insists on being a consistent ass.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Then lobbying might truly be about Free Speech, and not buying legislators' favor. Special interest groups could still pay lobbyists to wait around and meet with congress, advocating their agendas and voicing their opinions about bills and votes. That's supposed to be what our legislators actually DO --- meet and listen to constituents, act as representatives. But paid lobbyists from uber-wealthy groups shouldn't have more clout than anyone else, just because they can raise more money to fill candidates' War Chests.

    [...]

    We supposedly already have an independent fact checking system with our Free Press, and the Federal Election Committee to check on campaign fraud. (They need to do better jobs!) But we also have tons of bloggers and twitterers that look and act like "independent news sources", so it would be nice to have a central clearing house that could be trusted.

    I don't think public finance would change the dynamics much. Lobbying would then be also about getting public campaign support for the guys you like. Once again: when we create these sprawling systems to do unusual things like fund candidates, they will get manipulated by incumbents and their supporters.

    But I think we have to remember that direct contributions to candidates are effectively limited. The reason we're having this fight is because it's not illegal for a group to spend its own money on its own message in support of someone. It's not filling a war chest that gives the SEIU massive influence, it's their ability to send food soldiers into campaign battles and pay for ads supporting/disagreeing with candidates.

    However I think I'm most uncomfortable with the idea of a government clearing house for "truth". That really gets away from the fact that lots of discussion (even if it's lousy with bullshit sometimes) is what the democratic system is about. Democracy is not just being able to vote, it's about being able to advocate something with your vote, time and money.

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