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Thread: A boys' night out

  1. #1

    Default A boys' night out

    This week I rung up an old friend, mostly in effort to excise myself from depression-created isolationism. I asked him out for a drink, and as he happened to have a small flu and thus relieved of his usual spare time duties, he agreed.

    All in all, it was pleasant to spend time with him. Due to my alcoholism-abused liver and his athletic yet migraine-drug-riddled physique, he drank himself into a semi-stupor rather rapidly. This created the somewhat interesting scene whereupon he laid himself bare before my yet-somewhat-analytical observation.

    It was wholesale curious to deconstruct someone I've genuinely loved from the detached perspective of a couple years' separation. The frank admission of infidelity towards the woman he purports to love, for absolutely physical reasons, yet reasons I knowing him can relate to and understand. How someone I once held as bed-rock today struggles with what to do with his life as I've finally found direction.

    None of this I said to him, of course, I simply listened as a friend does. Not to belittle, of course, as his troubles are continuation of those we shared years ago, just as mine are. I did learn enough of him to know and comprehend the reasons for his self-doubts today. I fear he knows me enough to comprehend mine, but we didn't really touch that.

    What was interesting, however, was hearing his perspective of our shared experiences through the lens of retrospection. What he had learned, or gained, from all of our shared time. All that sex, all those women, all of the broken taboos and unrestrained behaviour.

    I think the most striking thing, for me, was his perception of motive. Why had we pursued all those things we did, why we forsook what society calls morals. As he put it, the things we experienced together he can never share with others, even through anecdote, as they "cannot understand and will always moralize". And he is right. In my pursuit of meaning, pleasure and direction, he was swept along, though it is unfair to paint myself the sole driver there. Either way, we ended up in so many titillating situations, and it seems our interpretation of the reasons leading up to it differ fundamentally.

    My nihilism and the constant tug-of-war between self-loathing and desire rendered me in a truly uncaring situation. It did not matter in the slightest what I did, as there were no morals to live up to save those I chose in my head, and by that point I cared very little of myself and my morals. Do-as-you-please was an easy option to adopt as there was no greater authority but myself. It truly did not make a difference which path I chose, which actions I took, as the end was always the same. Solitude and death.

    Then, I detested life, was prepared to risk all and behave outrageously for I cared not. There was only the shame inside my head, and that I drowned with alcohol and women.

    Whereas he! He loved life, loves it. He was the true hedonist to my vowed nihilist; he went along and engaged in all that debauchery because he only lives once, and he wants to enjoy as much of it as possible. In my self-destruction I helped him attain many pleasures of the mind and body few experience. As he explained his infidelities, I remembered and understood then what drove him in the past, his own desire.

    This is a paradox I find most satisfying, and not simply because I was a participant. It is telling of the human condition that we were able to give one another so much despite our differing drives. We have a relationship we can't ever have with any other, and it was also delightful for me that we were so easily able to rekindle it, to relate all those we hold secret from the world.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  2. #2
    This was an interesting read. I'll set aside for a moment what exactly were/are the unstated things that have been done, but I get the sense from your writing that you both think some of these experiences are mostly behind you. Is this true? Though I am glad you're feeling more like clawing out of a funk.

  3. #3
    We did consider re-starting our team-up a few years from now when we're in our 30's, experienced career people and wiser to the ways of the women-folk. But many of our experiences cannot be recreated due to the situations of the people on the other side; it's one thing to have a few nights of fun, prolonged contact is another (esp. in a committed relationship).
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  4. #4
    Well, based on limited information, it sounds like he's leaning more towards more-or-less wanting to preserve his relationship. Do you see yourself as a long-term relationship person?

    I think for some people it's the kind of thing they have to decide they want. Instead of just falling into it like many folks seem to.

  5. #5
    He'll probably get out of it when she puts her foot down, but that's just my opinion. Me? I'm not sure. I love science and alcohol, who wants to play third fiddle?

    The decision vs falling into was one of our main talking points
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  6. #6
    It was wholesale curious to deconstruct someone I've genuinely loved from the detached perspective of a couple years' separation. The frank admission of infidelity towards the woman he purports to love, for absolutely physical reasons, yet reasons I knowing him can relate to and understand. How someone I once held as bed-rock today struggles with what to do with his life as I've finally found direction.

    What was interesting, however, was hearing his perspective of our shared experiences through the lens of retrospection. What he had learned, or gained, from all of our shared time. All that sex, all those women, all of the broken taboos and unrestrained behaviour.

    This is a paradox I find most satisfying, and not simply because I was a participant. It is telling of the human condition that we were able to give one another so much despite our differing drives. We have a relationship we can't ever have with any other, and it was also delightful for me that we were so easily able to rekindle it, to relate all those we hold secret from the world.





    Sounds like a wonderful kind of friendship to have, moving deeper over time. With full acceptance of each other, and changes.





    (You write so well, with a style and honesty that reads like water, fluid and fresh. Makes me thirsty for more.)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    He'll probably get out of it when she puts her foot down, but that's just my opinion. Me? I'm not sure. I love science and alcohol, who wants to play third fiddle?

    The decision vs falling into was one of our main talking points
    Who says there isn't someone out there who also loves science and alcohol? Isn't a partner in crime sort of a nice thought?

    I think the decision vs. falling is indeed something that's really interesting. Because I think a lot of people really do just fall into something like marriage, when they may in fact marriage may not be their most emotionally comfortable state.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    We did consider re-starting our team-up a few years from now when we're in our 30's, experienced career people and wiser to the ways of the women-folk. But many of our experiences cannot be recreated due to the situations of the people on the other side; it's one thing to have a few nights of fun, prolonged contact is another (esp. in a committed relationship).
    May I ask you how old you are?

    Sometimes I think I missed several post of you when I was away of this board (or the Atari one to be correct) that would put some more context in your current one. But maybe context would just distract from the essence of your posts anyway.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  9. #9
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    No experience can be re-created, it's best to keep the good memories and try something new. The experience of having very different motives for the same action is very normal to me and I sometimes like to dwell on that as well. It's funny how you can have such different reasons to get to the same result.
    Congratulations America

  10. #10
    I'll be 26 in October.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Who says there isn't someone out there who also loves science and alcohol? Isn't a partner in crime sort of a nice thought?
    Many of the most brilliant scientists I know also drink heavily. Which is nice. A partner in crime? Well, he was one, and that was nice, but we never fucked each other. I meant, it's not an easy situation to put your partner into.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I think the decision vs. falling is indeed something that's really interesting. Because I think a lot of people really do just fall into something like marriage, when they may in fact marriage may not be their most emotionally comfortable state.
    A couple formed during our freshman year is now pregnant. Good tidings for them, I guess, but I'll also wager dollars to donuts that they fell into it rather than chose it. People don't think!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I'll be 26 in October.
    Interesting that one can already have "old friends" and - as it sounds - "those days" with 26, I always thought you have to reach 30 for that. That said, I thought you where older than 30.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    Interesting that one can already have "old friends" and - as it sounds - "those days" with 26, I always thought you have to reach 30 for that. That said, I thought you where older than 30.
    I'm not sure whether that's a compliment or an insult

    In the roughest terms, I divide my life so far into a couple of periods, notably being in elementary school, in SS, and then at uni. And my uni time may be further divided into the start, my worst depression period and suicide attempt, the recovery period and I suppose I'm now in a new phase starting out my career. Anyway, he and I were closest before my depression got worse, when we lived together and tried to solve the dilemma of the female gender. We drifted apart when we moved to our separate places, and he went into mathematics and I into materials science.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I'll be 26 in October.
    I thought you were older than 26! Not sure why actually.

    A couple formed during our freshman year is now pregnant. Good tidings for them, I guess, but I'll also wager dollars to donuts that they fell into it rather than chose it. People don't think!
    I guess I've recently decided that I do want it, but haven't found the person I want it with...which makes me nervous I don't really want it because I became sorta emotionally disconnected with the significant others towards the end of my last relationships. And thus concludes Psych 101 for today.

  14. #14
    So long as you don't get emotionally disconnected with the child, you're in good company. I can't really empathize as I've no business having kids myself.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  15. #15
    Ah, see I hope to have at least 15 to send to the mills and support me financially when our pension system goes bankrupt.

  16. #16
    That's a lot of poopin' to monitor
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  17. #17
    Once you have four, the older ones basically raise the younger ones for you. Probably.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I'm not sure whether that's a compliment or an insult
    Based on the fact that I don't know how you look it can't be an insult, I don't think guessing one older on mental capabilities is a bad thing until you reach retirement age.
    I don't know if it is a compliment. I you sometimes show this "I've seen it all" mentality in your post that I usually know from older people.
    In the roughest terms, I divide my life so far into a couple of periods, notably being in elementary school, in SS, and then at uni. And my uni time may be further divided into the start, my worst depression period and suicide attempt, the recovery period and I suppose I'm now in a new phase starting out my career. Anyway, he and I were closest before my depression got worse, when we lived together and tried to solve the dilemma of the female gender. We drifted apart when we moved to our separate places, and he went into mathematics and I into materials science.
    Coincidence or causality between "solving the dilemma" and "before my depression got worse"? I don't ask if you had any success on solving it, there is an universal rule to it.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  19. #19
    Just Floatin... termite's Avatar
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    Is 26 too young for memoirs?
    Such is Life...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    Based on the fact that I don't know how you look it can't be an insult, I don't think guessing one older on mental capabilities is a bad thing until you reach retirement age.
    I don't know if it is a compliment. I you sometimes show this "I've seen it all" mentality in your post that I usually know from older people.
    What little wisdom I have came with such a cost that I wonder whether it was worth it. But I'm still here, so maybe? In some ways I think I have seen it all, the change of seasons, but that's just as much an invitation into solitude as it is experience. There are still surprises in the world.

    I have many an experience, but I don't think it can be translated easily into advice or guidance for others. So in that sense it is meaningless. And given that I tend to forget most things (if anything, our night out reminded me of many events), most of what I've gone through quickly becomes meaningless for me as well. For what, then, were all those pains felt?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    Coincidence or causality between "solving the dilemma" and "before my depression got worse"? I don't ask if you had any success on solving it, there is an universal rule to it.
    An unfortunate affair did assist in plunging me into further existential angst, but I'm far too selfish and self-absorbed to be genuinely depressed about things outside my own head.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by termite View Post
    Is 26 too young for memoirs?
    Given that I don't remember most of it?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  22. #22
    Well if you're an alternative rock star you might want to write your memoirs before 27.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    What little wisdom I have came with such a cost that I wonder whether it was worth it. But I'm still here, so maybe? In some ways I think I have seen it all, the change of seasons, but that's just as much an invitation into solitude as it is experience. There are still surprises in the world.

    I have many an experience, but I don't think it can be translated easily into advice or guidance for others. So in that sense it is meaningless. And given that I tend to forget most things (if anything, our night out reminded me of many events), most of what I've gone through quickly becomes meaningless for me as well. For what, then, were all those pains felt?
    Well I think I am fated to feel either bad about what I have been through or empty about what I left out. To be able to feel pain is not to bad, if it just didn't hurt so much when you do. Well I just sometimes feel it would have been better not to have been such an outsider back in college times, because - well - you only go to college once, even though, college here is nothing like in the US.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

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