Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 85

Thread: Abortion

  1. #1

    Default Abortion

    <<New attempt to engage everyone in a discussion about the politics, legislation, science, and religious beliefs surrounding abortion. Although the US has Roe v Wade legalizing abortion, we also have the Hyde Amendment limiting abortion--->>

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_amendment

    As a rider attached to the yearly appropriations bill for Medicaid, it occasioned intense debate in Congress each time that it came up for renewal. The original measure made no exceptions for cases of pregnancies that were the result of rape or incest or that threatened the lives of pregnant woman, provoking an outcry from women's rights advocates. As a result, beginning in 1977 language was added to provide for such circumstances; however, the exact wording has varied from one year to the next, subject to the outcome of Congressional bargaining on the issue.
    Plenty of other articles I could cite and quote, illustrating how states have been whittling away at abortion services. From public defunding to extraneous regulations to falsifying facts about science. But I hesitate to post them, since some posters here would just critique each article instead of the larger issue.

    Some within the "pro-life" group would prefer to deny funding for beneficial and preventative services like sex-ed in schools, access to BC and family planning --- denying those services in order to outlaw abortion. The common theme is a religious basis for being anti-abortion, and using political power to legislate their beliefs.

    Is religious belief a proper metric to use regarding abortion services?

    Should anti-abortion religious beliefs be a litmus test for legislators running for office?

    I don't think so, but what do you think?


    <<No poll, because I suck at those too >>

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Is religious belief a proper metric to use regarding abortion services?
    No, but I would say that for any subject.
    Should anti-abortion religious beliefs be a litmus test for legislators running for office?
    I do not think it is necessary, as any changes to the abortion law would end in a referendum anyway, so I will have my say. But I don't think I'd give my vote for an extreme pro-life politican,
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  3. #3
    If the government wasn't the dominant funder of abortions, this wouldn't be a debate. You could get an abortion for any reason you want. But because they are, we are forced to have discussions about what tests/standards/questions should be asked before an abortion if performed.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    If the government wasn't the dominant funder of abortions, this wouldn't be a debate. You could get an abortion for any reason you want. But because they are, we are forced to have discussions about what tests/standards/questions should be asked before an abortion if performed.
    You mean, in a back alley? By non-licensed physicians? You're right....if government hadn't gotten involved in abortion, any coat hanger would do.


  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    If the government wasn't the dominant funder of abortions, this wouldn't be a debate.[...]
    Can you explain where you got the idea that government is the dominant funder of abortions? It's not a covered Medicaid procedure, and the Hyde Amendment is quite clear that groups like Planned Parenthood can't use federal funds....

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    If the government wasn't the dominant funder of abortions, this wouldn't be a debate. You could get an abortion for any reason you want. But because they are, we are forced to have discussions about what tests/standards/questions should be asked before an abortion if performed.
    I don't remember right off what article I read on this recently, but the government is NOT funding most abortions! Yes, they are funding PP for birth control and other women's sexual health issues!

    We have a serious problem in this country! That problem is the government thinks it knows what is best for EVERYONE! Bullshit! My female health issues are MINE, not the governments! The state did finally break down and approve me for free pap and mammogram this year, but I had to fight for that help. If women can't get help with the most private of health issues, yes governmental help, then women will go without necessary diagnosis and treatment! When I got my hysterectomy, I had to prove to Medicaid that I was NOT pregnant. Not to the doctor, but to the fucking government, because a hysterectomy could be in conjunction with an abortion and THEY WON'T PAY FOR THOSE!

    As far as tests and discussions and such bullshit before the abortion goes, if they are solely used for the purpose of changing the woman's mind and making her go thru with an unwanted pregnancy, then they are interfering with her health, and with a decision she, and a partner if involved, has to make! Whether to terminate or continue with a pregnancy can sometimes be the biggest decision a woman ever makes! It affects her every day of the rest of her life, either way she goes!

    Warning...personal anecdote! Do not read if you want citations and links! I refuse to post my entire medical history online!

    Way back in history...back when I was 15 years old, I became pregnant! Was it wise? NO! Was it entirely an accident? YES! Was I on BC? YES! I decided, on my own with no input of my parents, to have an abortion. Then I went to see the gynecologist. She told me many things about why ending the pregnancy was a smart decision. Things like, I was so small the likelihood of the baby and I both surviving was very small. So, in all actuality, it was a dangerous pregnancy, for both of us. She gave me a referral to the nearest clinic where I could get the procedure. Since that clinic was in Boulder, Colorado...approximately 250 miles from BFE, I had to tell my parents since I was too young to drive! My parents were wonderful! They both supported me in my decision, and they both went with me to the gynecologist again, so they could hear from her the risks of the pregnancy! Even without that visit, they still would have supported my decision. They knew I hadn't made that choice lightly. They knew I had taken in all the information I could get, read all I could lay my hands on, and made an informed choice that was right for me!

    We drove to Boulder on a Thursday morning as I had an appointment with the doctor that afternoon. We got a motel room, since the literature I had sent away for said it was a two day procedure. I went for my appointment, which started with a discussion with the doctor in his office, with my clothes on and my parents beside me. Then he did a small procedure to dilate my cervix. Frankly, it hurt like hell! I laid around the motel with the worst cramps I have ever had! I couldn't eat, it hurt too bad. I couldn't pee or poop...it hurt too bad! I couldn't read, or do my homework because I was hurting so bad.

    On Friday morning, I went back for the procedure. I met with a nurse, who gave me literature on the procedure and took me into an exam room. Then a therapist came in to make sure I was ok mentally with having this done. After about an hour, the doctor came in. He talked to me for a long time, asking periodically if this was what I really wanted to do. After I said yes, he did the procedure.

    We stayed another night in Boulder, because Dad was worried I might have complications! I told the therapist we were staying until Saturday, and was given a number to call, any time day or night, if I wanted to talk.

    All the way thru this ordeal, I was given plenty of opportunities to change my mind. The clinic, which was NOT associated with PP, was clean and comfortable. My Mom was allowed to stay with me until right before the procedure and was brought to the recovery room immediately after I got there.

    When we got there on Thursday, there were protesters outside the clinic! My Dad jumped their shit, asking them if they had ever had to make that decision or if they were just brainwashed into believing the propaganda spouted by the anti-choice assholes.

    The point is...if anyone thinks this is a decision that most women take lightly, they are fucking wrong! It is the most difficult decision I ever had to make. Do I regret it? NO! Do I think it was a mortal sin to remove a cluster of cells? NO! Do I realize that my decision is not right for everyone else? YES! Do I think every woman must make up her own mind? YES! Do I think the federal government should have any say whatsoever in a decision like this? HELL NO! Do I think there should be plenty of information about the risks of abortion? YES! Do I think everyone who considers this choice should be allowed to do their own research, without a state or federal government telling them what they must hear from a doctor, see on a video, see in an ultrasound, or whateverthehellelse the fucking governments are coming up with? YES! The government did NOT get me pregnant! The government did NOT pay for my abortion! The government did not pay for my follow-up care! The government would not have helped me with starting to raise a family at 15! The government should keep it's fucking fingers OUT of this decision!
    Last edited by oldmunchkin; 06-22-2011 at 08:50 AM. Reason: I can type and spell! Sure I can! lol
    I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
    Atari bullshit refugee!!

  7. #7
    Yes munch, it's a very personal and private decision. Hopefully between a girl/woman and her doctor, with help from supportive family or friends. You're lucky your folks were there for you....

    My ex and his girl friend got pregnant at age 15, and needed his folks to drive them to the clinic. Kind of an astounding thought, that one could be pregnant but not old enough to drive. He never talked about it with me. Ever.

    Another high school girlfriend of mine had an abortion at age 17, right before graduation and all of us heading off to college. She can recall details like it was yesterday. We were all friends and knew all the stories, who had to tell their parents and who didn't, who had abortions and who became parents right out of HS. Our reunions were difficult and complicated.

    My nursing school roommate had an abortion in our second year. I knew her boyfriend (actually introduced them). Very strange day when the three of us went for the abortion. She wanted me there as her friend, and him there as part of the pregnancy. When it was over he was relieved to leave her with me and drive away. Her pain meds were starting to wear off, but she was so hungry. I drove her to Wendy's for a frosty and chili. We sat across one another and shared the most incredibly intimate moments, exchanges between teary eyes. One of the rare times words weren't needed.

    Then I drove her back to our dorm, helped her to the toilet, put cold cloths on her head while she passed blood and tissue, cried and moaned, making me cry too.... changed the Kotex pad in her panties, gave her some pain pills and water, tucked her into bed, stroked her hair until she cried herself to sleep.

  8. #8
    Yes, something like this remains very clear in a person's memory! I can remember details that are rather silly actually. Things like, some of the streets in Boulder are dead ends because you run into the mountain! Or how many people ride bicycles there. Or what color the bedspreads were at the motel!

    I do remember the important things too. Things like, that was one of the few times my Dad actually said the words "I love you"! I always knew he did, but he wasn't a vocal person and telling someone he loved them was a big deal!

    I remember getting back to town and calling my boyfriend to tell him I was home. (Mom and I lived in town that winter because of the weather.) My Mom drove me to his house where I was pampered and cared for by him, his big brother, and his mother!

    I remember not having to go back to school on Monday, because we had a massive blizzard roll in on Saturday night and Sunday! I remember being so glad, because I really didn't feel all that terrific!

    I remember the pain pills they gave me knocked me on my ass! I remember Mom taking them away from me, because I was forgetting what time I took them and taking them too close together, making me a very stoned Munchkin! lol
    I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
    Atari bullshit refugee!!

  9. #9
    Anyway....those who suggest Planned Parenthood should be de-funded because one of their services is abortion....and they can't continue their pregnancy education/prevention, Birth Control and Family Planning services.....are fucking nuts.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Anyway....those who suggest Planned Parenthood should be de-funded because one of their services is abortion....and they can't continue their pregnancy education/prevention, Birth Control and Family Planning services.....are fucking nuts.
    Planned Parenthood should be de-funded precisely because it is none of the governments business. If you let government control the purse strings you are allowing the organization to become beholden to the whims of governmental bureaucracy. You don't want government interfering with the operations of private organization? I can get behind that. Just realize that means cutting financial support as well.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    Planned Parenthood should be de-funded precisely because it is none of the governments business. If you let government control the purse strings you are allowing the organization to become beholden to the whims of governmental bureaucracy. You don't want government interfering with the operations of private organization? I can get behind that. Just realize that means cutting financial support as well.
    Even if defunding PP puts thousands (hell, maybe millions) of women in peril? Because a huge part of PP goes for cancer screening like pap smears and mammograms. If you take that away from poor women, they have no screening and no help at all. I don't remember the exact costs of both of those tests, but I can assure you it's in the hundreds of dollars. Dollars poor women don't have. Hmmm, what should I do this year...get a pap and mammogram and not have enough food/pharmacy/utility money for a few months or keep the necessities and play Russian roulette with my life!
    I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
    Atari bullshit refugee!!

  12. #12
    OP-ED COLUMNIST


    The New Anti-Abortion Math


    By GAIL COLLINS
    Published: April 20, 2011



    Austin, Tex.

    One of my favorite stories about the Texas State Legislature involves the time Senator Wendy Davis was trying to ask a colleague, Troy Fraser, some questions about a pending bill. Fraser deflected by saying, “I have trouble hearing women’s voices.”

    Really, she was standing right there on the floor. Holding a microphone.

    These days in the budget-strapped, Tea-Party-besieged State Capitol, you can be grateful for any funny anecdote, no matter how badly it reflects on Texas politics in general. Like the time Gov. Rick Perry defended the state’s abstinence-only birth control program by saying that he knew abstinence worked “from my own personal life.”

    Right now, the state is wrestling with a fiscal megacrisis that goes back to 2006, when the Legislature cut local property taxes and made up for the lost revenue with a new business tax. The new tax produced billions less than expected to the shock and horror of everyone except all the experts who had been predicting that all along.

    Governor Perry blames the whole thing on President Obama.

    Texas’ problems are of interest to us all because Texas is producing a huge chunk of the nation’s future work force with a system that goes like this:

    • Terrible sex education programs and a lack of access to contraceptives leads to a huge number of births to poor women. (About 60 percent of the deliveries in Texas are financed by Medicaid.) Texas also leads the nation in the number of teenage mothers with two or more offspring.

    • The Texas baby boom — an 800,000 increase in schoolchildren over the last decade — marches off to underfunded schools. Which are getting more underfunded by the minute, thanks to that little tax error.

    And naturally, when times got tough at the State Capitol, one of the first things the cash-strapped Legislature tried to cut was family planning.

    “It’s in total danger,” said Fran Hagerty, who leads the Women’s Health and Family Planning Association of Texas.

    One of the best family-planning efforts in Texas is the Women’s Health Program, which provides an annual health exam and a year’s worth of contraceptives to poor women. For every dollar the state puts into the plan, the federal government provides $9.

    The state estimates the pregnancies averted would reduce its Medicaid bill by more than $36 million next year. But when a budget expert told the Texas House Committee on Human Services that the program saved money, he was laced into by Representative Jodie Laubenberg for using “government math.”

    “You speculate that,” she snorted.

    Meanwhile, on the House floor, anti-abortion lawmakers were stripping financing for other family-planning programs. Representative Randy Weber successfully moved part of the money into anti-abortion crisis centers for pregnant women.

    “There’s been research done. ... It actually shows the highest abortion rate is among women actively using contraceptives,” Weber insisted.

    “These folks are anti-abortion, anti-contraception and anti-science,” said Representative Mike Villarreal, who tangled with Weber during the debate.

    Villarreal has had a rather dark view of the rationality of some of his colleagues ever since he tried to improve the state’s abstinence-only sex education programs by requiring that the information imparted be medically accurate. It died in committee. “The pediatrician on the committee wouldn’t vote for it; he was the swing vote,” Villarreal recalled.

    Welcome to the fact-free zone. This week, U.S. Senator John Cornyn gave an interview to Evan Smith of The Texas Tribune in which he claimed that the battle in Congress to defund Planned Parenthood “was really part of a larger fight about spending money we don’t have on things that aren’t essential.”

    There are a lot of fiscal conservatives in the anti-abortion movement, and it’s apparently hard for them to admit that destroying Planned Parenthood is a money-loser.

    There’s also a resistance to government support for contraceptive services. “There are some people in the pro-life movement who think birth control pills of all kind are abortifacients,” said Senator Bob Deuell, a Republican. “But I don’t see any medical evidence.”

    Deuell is one of those rare abortion opponents who is dedicated to the cause of helping women avoid unwanted pregnancy in the first place. He says his allies in the anti-abortion movement haven’t objected to his approach, but he admitted that they haven’t been handing him any medals either.

    We’re currently stuck with a politics of reproduction in which emotion is so strong that actual information becomes irrelevant. Senator Cornyn, in his interview, was reminded of the great dust-up his colleague Jon Kyl of Arizona created when he claimed that 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood did involved abortions. When challenged, Kyl’s staff said the figure “was not intended to be a factual statement.”

    So did Cornyn agree that Kyl screwed up?

    “I’m not so sure,” Cornyn said.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/op...tion&st=Search


  13. #13
    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    573
    Quote Originally Posted by oldmunchkin View Post

    We have a serious problem in this country! That problem is the government thinks it knows what is best for EVERYONE! Bullshit! My female health issues are MINE, not the governments!
    Absolutely. This is the general mind set of all Western governments these days (especially Australia), that they think they know what's best for everyone, so lets decide whether someone can have an abortion, or whether two people can marry each other, or whether someone has the right to deny their business services to a particular group of people...

    I don't like the idea of abortion, and a while ago I would have said that I'm for abortion up to a particular 'point' of the pregnancy, but that would just give rise to further issues. That's why I stand firmly with the position that any female should have the right to an abortion up until the point she gives birth to the child.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by oldmunchkin View Post
    Even if defunding PP puts thousands (hell, maybe millions) of women in peril? Because a huge part of PP goes for cancer screening like pap smears and mammograms. If you take that away from poor women, they have no screening and no help at all. I don't remember the exact costs of both of those tests, but I can assure you it's in the hundreds of dollars. Dollars poor women don't have. Hmmm, what should I do this year...get a pap and mammogram and not have enough food/pharmacy/utility money for a few months or keep the necessities and play Russian roulette with my life!
    Government funding amounts to something like 33% of Planned Parenthood's total budget. I hardly think they'd disappear overnight without it.

    In fact, state funding has been challenged for Indiana Planned Parenthood and yet it somehow they have managed to keep their doors open.

    Or is PP too big to fail?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    Government funding amounts to something like 33% of Planned Parenthood's total budget. I hardly think they'd disappear overnight without it.

    In fact, state funding has been challenged for Indiana Planned Parenthood and yet it somehow they have managed to keep their doors open.

    Or is PP too big to fail?
    Oddly enough, a spokeswoman from Indiana Planned Parenthood was just interviewed on cable TV, explaining how 1/3 less funding makes a bigger impact than most people can appreciate. Think about that---1/3 fewer mammograms, 1/3 fewer pelvic exams and PAP smears, 1/3 fewer diaphragm fittings or IUD insertions---would you want to be a woman in that group, or have your lover/mother/sister/aunt/grandma in that group?

    She said they were grateful for private donations from people trying to make up the difference, but it's a weekly and monthly struggle.

    Yay for the USA. We certainly are "exceptional", huh.

  16. #16
    That's odd. I swear I responded to this last night but now I don't see my post.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Oddly enough, a spokeswoman from Indiana Planned Parenthood was just interviewed on cable TV, explaining how 1/3 less funding makes a bigger impact than most people can appreciate. Think about that---1/3 fewer mammograms, 1/3 fewer pelvic exams and PAP smears, 1/3 fewer diaphragm fittings or IUD insertions---would you want to be a woman in that group, or have your lover/mother/sister/aunt/grandma in that group?

    She said they were grateful for private donations from people trying to make up the difference, but it's a weekly and monthly struggle.

    Yay for the USA. We certainly are "exceptional", huh.
    Apparently PP is the only game in town.

    I love the false dichotomy. Fund PP or your lover/mother/sister/aunt/grandma will die!

  18. #18
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the forests of the night
    Posts
    6,238
    Yeah, freedom to die for all! Seriously, your healthcare system over there sucks.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  19. #19
    Seeing that clothing, food, and shelter take precedence over healthcare, why aren't you calling for the "free" government provision of each of those things to the entire population?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #20
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the forests of the night
    Posts
    6,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Seeing that clothing, food, and shelter take precedence over healthcare, why aren't you calling for the "free" government provision of each of those things to the entire population?
    /torches Loki's strawman.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  21. #21
    Intelligent response as usual.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  22. #22
    *achem* Many states fund abortions. And we all know that Planned Parenthood gets a massive chunk of its budget from the federal government. It's a de-facto indirect subsidy. Which I support in principle, but like all government funding we shouldn't be surprised when politics intervenes on issues like this. As has been pointed out, when government holds the purse strings this stuff is inevitable.

  23. #23
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the forests of the night
    Posts
    6,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Intelligent response as usual.
    Well, your argument was not exactly Pulitzer material, y'know? To be exact: Not everything that's false is also a comparison.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  24. #24
    I read somewhere (can't be arses to source, looked it up in a response to Lewk a while ago) that only 3% of the services provided by PP are abortions.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  25. #25
    Yes, we talked about that a while ago. It's basically fuzzy math. They define an individual service very broadly. EG handing out free condoms or pamphlets is a "service", which they ascribe the same weight as performing an abortion.

  26. #26
    Pfff probably greater weight if they prevent abortions
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Should anti-abortion religious beliefs be a litmus test for legislators running for office?

    I don't think so, but what do you think?


    <<No poll, because I suck at those too >>
    Yes, if the voter feels strongly enough about it to make it a litmus test for their vote. Are you asking if any of us feel that way? I think we all know that there are only 2 *maybe 3* people on here who are that strongly opposed to abortion. So what, what possible relevance does that?

    Is religious belief a proper metric? You really should explain that a bit more but pretty much what everyone is thinking *even if they don't realize it* is that they're making a choice based on morality or some equivalent thinking system. Religious belief is probably a direct root for many, and an indirect root for most, whichever side they end up coming down on. So are you really asking if morality is something we should be legislating? Personally I think the answer is no, but most people on here think the answer is yes. It just so happens that most on here also happen to land on the allowing abortion side of that moral choice.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    Apparently PP is the only game in town.
    For many places, it is the only free or low-cost game in town. What part of it's too expensive to go to the doctor on a monthly, tri-monthly, or yearly basis don't you get? A visit to a gynecologist is around $250, if they do a pap it's around $100 at the doctor's office and then however much for some lab to read the test and send the results. If you are lucky to have a clean pap, then no more doc visits for a year, by which time the cost will have risen...again! If you have an abnormal test, then there are visits, sometimes monthly, for more paps. Each of those visits have the $250 office call plus the $100 pap test, plus the lab to read it and they, of course, send you a bill each time! If your doctor's office has a mammogram, then there is whatever cost associated with that, plus the reading of the test. If you have to go outside for the test, there is another, separate charge, plus the reading. If you have a diaphragm or IUD, some doctors insist on seeing you every 6 months...at that $250 charge per visit. If you have depo shots, you have to go in every 3 months, altho that charge, after the initial visit, may be less than a doctor's visit, since the nurse usually gives the shots. BC implants are usually in place for 5 years, but you must bear the initial doctor's visit, plus another fee for the implantation. Some doctors insist on 6 month visits for these, others let you go a year between visits. Are you starting to see how the "other game in town" is too expensive for people who are low income and have no insurance? A visit to PP is based on your ability to pay, a sliding scale type thing. I am not sure how the reading of the tests work, but I know that no one is swatted with a huge bill for those either!

    I love the false dichotomy. Fund PP or your lover/mother/sister/aunt/grandma will die!
    Well if your lover/mother/sister/aunt/grandma can't afford to see a full priced doctor, there is that possibility!
    I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
    Atari bullshit refugee!!

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by oldmunchkin View Post
    For many places, it is the only free or low-cost game in town.
    For many places? What are you basing that off of?

    Perhaps if Women's Health Clinic X got 300 million dollars a year in government grants/subsidies they could also provide necessary services for the poor, couldn't they?

    The false dichotomy is that Planned Parenthood, and only Planned Parenthood is capable of providing these services.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    For many places? What are you basing that off of?
    Regardless of what you think, there is a large...very large...portion of this country that is very rural. Sometimes it's even a hundred miles or more to get to a doctor. Sheesh, add that cost to the others! I don't know about the ubercrowded cities in this country, but out here PP even makes "house calls", coming to a town closer to where some women live. So, I am basing it on "personal" experience that leads to common sense! Not everyone is a city dweller. Some of us prefer the rural areas, even when it means we have to travel for care. You know...out here in Real America!

    Perhaps if Women's Health Clinic X got 300 million dollars a year in government grants/subsidies they could also provide necessary services for the poor, couldn't they?

    The false dichotomy is that Planned Parenthood, and only Planned Parenthood is capable of providing these services.
    Perhaps they would! But then, maybe not, since the government wants to keep it's fingers in the pie! Hell, if Woman's Health Clinic X performed abortions, the government would refuse to keep it's promise to have reproductive health care for women in rural areas!
    I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
    Atari bullshit refugee!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •