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Thread: More German Anti-Tech Lunacy

  1. #451
    SEŃOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    I blame net neutrality for all this online hate.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  2. #452
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I wonder how many people complaining about arrests for hate speech would urge the same restraint when dealing with pro-ISIS sentiments.
    I'm curious Loki, what is your actual stance on this though?
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  3. #453
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Well, I have no opinion so far on the actions in Germany but I'm pretty sure I would object to local authorities trying to criminalize statements expressing political or spiritual support for ISIS here in the US.
    As would I.

    Any idea if the German authorities do the same to ISIS supporters as they do to the suspected white supremacists?
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  4. #454
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    I'm curious Loki, what is your actual stance on this though?
    Err on the side of free of free speech. Only punish speech when it involves clear threats against individuals or provides details for a specific attack.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #455
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Well, we agree for once...
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  6. #456
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    As would I.

    Any idea if the German authorities do the same to ISIS supporters as they do to the suspected white supremacists?
    They pretty much do. 4 days ago was the last raid.
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  7. #457
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    They pretty much do. 4 days ago was the last raid.
    Does that just not get a play in the press? Honest question.
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  8. #458
    SEŃOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    There has been a reasonable amount of coverage due to it being part of a series of anti-ISIS raids conducted in several countries. The ISIS raids have probably gotten more coverage but doesn't provoke Dread to the same extent.

    Still unclear just how similar these suspects were to the aforementioned white supremacists.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  9. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Does that just not get a play in the press? Honest question.
    On this note, the US has made at least 2 ISIS related arrests in the past 2 weeks. Can you say who and why? Cause I didn't see any nationwide coverage of it.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  10. #460
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Does that just not get a play in the press? Honest question.
    It does. It's just not high-profile news, same as with every other raid. It gets reported on once and that's about it, unless something new comes to light.
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  11. #461
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Hope is the denial of reality

  12. #462
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Seems more like run of the mill think tank lunacy. Think tanks were created by special interests. We revel in them and we shudder in them. Hail to the tanks.

  13. #463
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    They are making this one super hard to paste, but...

    https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...cebook/543258/

    Yes, let's legislatively mandate "dignity" on the Internet

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    They are making this one super hard to paste, but...

    https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...cebook/543258/

    Yes, let's legislatively mandate "dignity" on the Internet
    What a mess. Germany always seems rather hostile to technology companies based outside of Germany. I am hoping the internet hive mind will get annoyed and bombard Germany with WW2 memes

  15. #465
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Provide an example of irony: To prevent the rise of alleged "Nazis", the German government aggressively polices public expression and creates a censorious police state.

    Facebook, Google Have a Tough New Job in Germany: Content Cop
    Social-media platforms face fines of up to $60 million if they fail to delete illegal content such as neo-Nazi propaganda and calls to violence

    By Zeke Turner
    Updated Jan. 10, 2018 2:31 p.m. ET

    BERLIN—Germany has gone live with one of the most onerous laws aimed at forcing Facebook Inc., Twitter Inc. and YouTube to police content on their platforms.

    The verdict after 10 days in effect? It’s complicated.

    Since Jan. 1, technology companies face fines of up to €50 million ($60 million) if they fail to delete illegal content on their platforms, ranging from slander and libel to neo-Nazi propaganda and calls to violence. The law applies to most social-media networks in Germany.

    The banned content was always illegal. What’s new is that social networks with more than two million users in Germany now are responsible for cleaning it up themselves.

    The new law pushes U.S.-based social-media platforms in Germany one step closer to the level of responsibility that newspapers and media here have long faced—a level far higher than what the platforms have faced domestically. Under U.S. law, tech platforms aren’t liable for user content shared on their services.



    Many of the Silicon Valley giants affected by the new rules have already pushed back publicly in Germany. The law has also raised alarm among free-speech watchdogs and legal experts.

    “In a democracy, it has to be a state organization that enforces the law,” said Dieter Frey, a lawyer and media expert in Cologne.

    Social-media companies typically rely on software and a mix of in-house and third-party content moderators, who sift through posts users have flagged as problematic and delete those that violate local law. In certain cases, the companies’ legal teams jump in. The law often has companies working under time pressure to determine whether a post breaches one of 24 paragraphs of the criminal code.

    Ahead of the new law, Facebook contracted with providers for 1,200 moderators in Germany, a number that compares with 7,500 moderators world-wide. Just 1.5% of Facebook’s 2.07 billion monthly users world-wide are based in Germany.

    Facing increased pressure after the U.S. election and terror attacks around the globe, tech companies have taken some voluntary steps to monitor the massive amount of content on their platforms. Facebook, for instance, is figuring out how to fully monitor and analyze the more than one million user reports of potentially objectionable content that it says it receives every day.

    At YouTube, a unit of Alphabet Inc.’s Google where users watch more than a billion hours of video a day, the company has used both software and humans to screen for content that warrants removal, such as extremist videos. In the U.S., Google has said it instructs human reviewers to mark violent or hateful content as low quality, which will likely move such sites lower in Google search results. Twitter has been using internal technology to flag accounts that promote terrorism.

    Following rules can pose practical difficulties, as companies have found in the first 10 days Germany’s new law has been in effect.

    This month, Twitter temporarily suspended the account of a German satire magazine, Titanic, demanding that the magazine delete a parody tweet mocking a German nationalist lawmaker, Beatrix von Storch.

    Tim Wolff, Titanic’s editor-in-chief, said Twitter notified him of the suspension by email on Tuesday, Jan. 2, and asked him to delete the tweet. Later, other users piled on and flagged four other tweets on Titanic’s account, including one that made fun of German police and another about Austria’s Chancellor Sebastian Kurz, whom Titanic has called “Baby Hitler” and said should be killed.

    Twitter asked Mr. Wolff to delete those four tweets as well. Then, after an internal review that included input from legal professionals on its support team in Germany, Twitter dropped that request and reversed Titanic's suspension. The tweet about Ms. von Storch remains offline.

    Mr. Wolff said, “Our suggestion is to let us at Titanic decide what is satire and what isn’t.”

    In another case, on December 22, before the law had taken full effect, Facebook blocked the account of Mike Samuel Delberg, a 28-year-old political representative of Berlin’s Jewish community, after he posted a video of an Israeli restaurant owner in Berlin being threatened on the street.

    In a false positive, Facebook content monitors thought the video violated the company’s community standards. “It went viral,” Mr. Delberg said. Then “all of a sudden Facebook deleted the video and blocked me and said that I broke their guidelines.” The company has since apologized to Mr. Delberg for deleting the video and he is back online.

    “It can’t be true that...while raising awareness in public of anti-Semitism, an account gets deleted,” Mr. Delberg said.

    “We should not be the ones who judge if a post is illegal or not,” said Semjon Rens, Facebook’s public-policy manager in Germany. “This is the responsibility of courts,” he said, adding Facebook is “working hard to put the right processes in place and to comply.”

    A spokesman for Google’s YouTube said it would “continue to invest heavily in teams and technology” to be able to remove “content that breaks our rules or German law” more quickly.

    A representative for Twitter declined to comment on the record or to disclose the size of the team it employs to review content on its site but did explain the company’s views.

    German enforcement officials are still finding their way. Ulf Willuhn, a senior public prosecutor in Cologne, spent the beginning of the year considering whether his office would have to pursue legal action based on a tweet from an anti-immigrant lawmaker—the real Ms. von Storch, not a parody this time—who had referred to the local Arabic-speaking community as “group rapists.”

    After some research, Mr. Willuhn decided his office wasn’t responsible. Separately, Twitter had already asked her to delete her tweet.

    “At the end of the day, …it’s not as easy as it seems at first glance,” Mr. Willuhn said. “Yeah, it’s very very difficult.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/faceboo...cop-1515605207

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