How far would you go to secure a promotion that you want?

[DecoyMilk]

Aside from the normal, boring things like study up on it and prepare, what would you do?

Tell lies? Steal ideas? Bribery/Blackmail? Spread rumours? Brown nose? Try to get inside secrets? 'Create' a problem so that you can be the hero and fix it?

I've done a few of these in the last couple of weeks, and it's something that I would have been ashamed of a few years ago, but now my attitude to it is that anything goes to get what you want. After all, it's not the best man (or woman) that gets the job, but the best prepared.

[CitizenCain]

Depends on the specifics and whatnot. Who'd I have to blackmail or bribe? What's the position worth? Better hours or benefits? etc.

Like a previous boss of mine, who was an incompetent, abusive ass, and a waste of skin to boot... do I get to blackmail him? Push him out an 8th story window? Lie and get him arrested for capital treasonterrorismchildmolestation? 'Cause I'd do that just for kicks. Any resulting career advancement would be purely a fringe benefit.

I think, for me, it boils down to a risk/reward calculation and consideration of whom I have to screw over (if any one).

Because, like you observe, promoting the "best person for the job" or using meritocratic metrics for promotions and raises and such is the exception, not the rule. It's who you know and who you blow, so know and blow away! If some under-qualified cock sucker is gonna get promoted anyway, well, the only conclusions I can come to are that they want an under-qualified cock-sucker for the job, and that there's no reason it should be someone else. I can be just as under-qualified as any cock-sucker out there, so I may as well get the spot if I want it.

There's nothing inherently immoral with tailoring yourself (or your image) to get promoted - after all, if they wanted to be meritocratic, they would be, and all your ass-kissing wouldn't matter. As much as we're told (and even like to believe) that Western society is meritocratic, it's not, so don't worry about being the beneficiary of this fact, rather than just letting your boss benefit from it.

[DecoyMilk]

Depends on the specifics and whatnot. Who'd I have to blackmail or bribe? What's the position worth? Better hours or benefits? etc.

Like a previous boss of mine, who was an incompetent, abusive ass, and a waste of skin to boot... do I get to blackmail him? Push him out an 8th story window? Lie and get him arrested for capital treasonterrorismchildmolestation? 'Cause I'd do that just for kicks. Any resulting career advancement would be purely a fringe benefit.

I think, for me, it boils down to a risk/reward calculation and consideration of whom I have to screw over (if any one).

Because, like you observe, promoting the "best person for the job" or using meritocratic metrics for promotions and raises and such is the exception, not the rule. It's who you know and who you blow, so know and blow away! If some under-qualified cock sucker is gonna get promoted anyway, well, the only conclusions I can come to are that they want an under-qualified cock-sucker for the job, and that there's no reason it should be someone else. I can be just as under-qualified as any cock-sucker out there, so I may as well get the spot if I want it.

There's nothing inherently immoral with tailoring yourself (or your image) to get promoted - after all, if they wanted to be meritocratic, they would be, and all your ass-kissing wouldn't matter. As much as we're told (and even like to believe) that Western society is meritocratic, it's not, so don't worry about being the beneficiary of this fact, rather than just letting your boss benefit from it.

I think in my situation, I am the under-qualified cock sucker

Work in a shift desk of 10 people. They've created a new role to become the manager of that desk. Now I know I can do the job. I've only been in my current role for a year, while all the others have been doing it for 10-15 years, but that doesn't bother me one bit. I've learnt everything I can from them, they are all miserable bastards and love to moan about what they'd do to make things better: Yoink.
One of the guys is kind of the 'favourite' to get the job, but he is undoubtedly a massive cock end, which is why the other 3 applied int he first place: Because they don't want to work for this asshat.

I have reamed information from others in the know, I've lied about my interest in the job to other applicants, and I've made sure my accomplishments are highlighted more than others.

Asshat left for work today at 3pm and left his email client open and pc unlocked. Oops. Did I have a look? Fuck yes. Did I find all his ideas on the new job? Fuck yes I did.

If I get the job now because I have more ideas than him now, then what does that mean, that I'm an asshole, or that he's a clumsy idiot and I'm opportunist?

[CitizenCain]

I think in my situation, I am the under-qualified cock sucker

That's where I was going with that - no matter what, some under qualified cock-sucker's gonna get the job, so why can't you be that under qualified cock-sucker, instead of some other cock-sucker?

Work in a shift desk of 10 people. They've created a new role to become the manager of that desk. Now I know I can do the job. I've only been in my current role for a year, while all the others have been doing it for 10-15 years, but that doesn't bother me one bit. I've learnt everything I can from them, they are all miserable bastards and love to moan about what they'd do to make things better: Yoink.

I remember that things work a bit differently over in England, but over here, anyone who works the same job for 10 years is either a successful person at the top of his/her field, or a useless wanker who's gotten as high as they're gonna go. I'd say, even for a highly socialized country like the UK, 10 years at the same job without a promotion is pushing it as far as promotability goes.

One of the guys is kind of the 'favourite' to get the job, but he is undoubtedly a massive cock end, which is why the other 3 applied int he first place: Because they don't want to work for this asshat.

I have reamed information from others in the know, I've lied about my interest in the job to other applicants, and I've made sure my accomplishments are highlighted more than others.

Asshat left for work today at 3pm and left his email client open and pc unlocked. Oops. Did I have a look? Fuck yes. Did I find all his ideas on the new job? Fuck yes I did.

If I get the job now because I have more ideas than him now, then what does that mean, that I'm an asshole, or that he's a clumsy idiot and I'm opportunist?

That he's a clumsy idiot and you're an opportunist. Nothing wrong with any of that, as I see things. All you did was what everyone does in any negotiation (misleading about or concealing your intentions and motivations and desires to secure a better deal), and gathering freely available information... even if that information was only freely available because your competition is stupid.

Sounds to me like things'll be better all around if you get the job over asshat (well, expect for asshat, but he's an asshat, so who cares) - for you, for the rest of the desk, and probably even for the company. Gotta figure asshat's gonna make some asshatted decisions with company money and resources, no? If he's just an asshat, I think it'd be immoral to frame him for something, or pull some nasty tech tricks on him to make him look like an incompetent slacker, or push him out a window, and so on, but just "playing the game" like everyone else does, hell no. Not availing yourself of political opportunities to outmaneuver him is just foolish, IMHO.

[Illusions]

Asshat left for work today at 3pm and left his email client open and pc unlocked. Oops. Did I have a look? Fuck yes. Did I find all his ideas on the new job? Fuck yes I did.

And some other guy who saw this go on at your office is now wondering what he has to do to make sure some underhanded, ass-kissing, deceptive, idea-stealing asshole doesn't get the position. Congratulations, you've become exactly like the co-workers you dislike, and wish wouldn't be your new manager.

[Lebanese Dragon]

Sex

[GGT]

Touche, Illusions.

I was gonna say, if I had to rely on those kinds of tactics to get a promotion, it's most likely not the kind of place I'd want to work.

[Ominous Gamer]

new position over an existing group = they already decided who they want in that position.

[xaero1]

DecoyMilk, sorry mate but 10 years in the same position? I'd have looked elsewhere after 3...

Don't get hung-up on this promotion opportunity - sometimes the grass really is greener.

[Lebanese Dragon]

Tell us if you get the job, but ya I believe what you're doing is immoral. I really doubt you'll get the job though, it's hard to pick a 1 year guy over a 10 year guy. Politically/socially it looks bad within the company, and you'd think they'd just have more sway... but eitherway good luck, tell us how it goes.

[Loki]

Based on what you said about your company and your job, I don't quite get why you're still working there.

[CitizenCain]

The "fuck those incompetent asshats and find a better job" theory of employment doesn't work so well in a recession/jobless recovery/heavily socialized job market.

[Loki]

I'm not saying he should quit, but he should certainly be seriously looking for another job.

[CitizenCain]

Why?

Sure, in a place with some vague resemblance to a free-ish market, you wouldn't want to work for incompetent asshats, all else being equal (though, that still has its perks and attractions), but in a market where you can't really be fired for anything short of raping your co-workers, and being "laid off" comes with huge "redundancy" payoffs... why not? It's sure easier to excel when everyone around you is struggling to dress themselves in the morning, and it's not like company success is reflected in your paycheck the government takes two thirds of anyway... so why not enjoy a stress-free existence where you can move up in rank and pay by barely working 6 hours a day and just not massively screwing up?

I could be missing something due to my extended absence recently, but it sounds to me like there's just no incentive to find a job where there's a risk of actually having to work for one third [after taxes] of a living.

[Loki]

Is it really a stress-free existence where everyone is jealous of each other and/or hates each other? I don't know about you, but I'd hate to spend 40 hours a week in what is basically a hostile working environment.

[CitizenCain]

Well, if you're the boss, and you have to be caught with half a dead hooker in your trunk to get fired, who gives a crap about what the peons think? I imagine I'd have a great time lording it over them and rubbing their noses in it. Unfortunately, my current co-workers and overlords are pretty cool, and more or less know what they're doing, so I don't get to test out my theories on how to best enjoy abusing my inferiors. No BOFH training for poor Cainy at this job.

Oh well, maybe my next job will suck... just gotta think positive.