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Thread: Today's Republican Party is....

  1. #331
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Yeah, I totally don't get the constitutional argument here. The constitution says the president nominates and the Senate confirms. It doesn't say the president has to nominate, and it doesn't say the Senate has to confirm.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  2. #332
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    It is an amusing argument to watch, because quite a few people on both sides said exactly the opposite under the Republican president.

    That said, I understand a nomination after the election but before the inauguration would be blocked. I also understand that the Senate would block a candidate they think is too left or rightwing when elections are not far away. But this is pretty much a good nominee who would generally be acceptable right? I don't see why that should be blocked 10 months before a new president starts.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  3. #333
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Because he's probably a Muslim, why else would Obama pick him??
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  4. #334
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    It is an amusing argument to watch, because quite a few people on both sides said exactly the opposite under the Republican president.

    That said, I understand a nomination after the election but before the inauguration would be blocked. I also understand that the Senate would block a candidate they think is too left or rightwing when elections are not far away. But this is pretty much a good nominee who would generally be acceptable right? I don't see why that should be blocked 10 months before a new president starts.
    Because even a hint of cooperation with Obama is fatal to many Republicans.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #335
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Because even a hint of cooperation with Obama is fatal to many Republicans.
    What's really amusing is that back when Kagan was nominated, Orrin Hatch publicly lamented that Obama couldn't have picked a moderate who the GOP would happily confirm, like Garland. He'd said the same think back during the Clinton administration. And he repeated the sentiment two or three weeks ago, saying it was a shame Obama wouldn't select someone like Garland. And now Hatch is sitting there, having to oppose Garland because that's what the GOP wants and no doubt stewing at Obama for doing this to him.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  6. #336
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Welcome to party politics 2016.

  7. #337
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    At first I was lmao but then I read what that idiot is saying in defense of this idiocy and now I'm sad
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #338
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    The stupid thing is that the Republicans are odds-on to lose the Presidential election and Hillary will be under no obligation to renominate Garland at that point and could easily nominate someone who is clearly qualified but more liberal. Then what is the Senate to do? Keep blocking the newly elected Presidents nominations?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #339
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The stupid thing is that the Republicans are odds-on to lose the Presidential election and Hillary will be under no obligation to renominate Garland at that point and could easily nominate someone who is clearly qualified but more liberal. Then what is the Senate to do? Keep blocking the newly elected Presidents nominations?
    Which is probably why Obama chose to nominate Garland now anyway. It wouldn't leave me terribly surprised if the nomination had been withdrawn (probably at Garland's "request") if it looked like it was actually going to pass easily.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The stupid thing is that the Republicans are odds-on to lose the Presidential election and Hillary will be under no obligation to renominate Garland at that point and could easily nominate someone who is clearly qualified but more liberal. Then what is the Senate to do? Keep blocking the newly elected Presidents nominations?
    Sadly its true though if the Republican primary voters can their heads out of their ass and realize that Trump is the worst possible fucking thing that could happen to the party and nominate ANYONE else they have a decent shot against Clinton. Clinton has a lot of baggage and there is also an outside chance of an indictment.

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Which is probably why Obama chose to nominate Garland now anyway. It wouldn't leave me terribly surprised if the nomination had been withdrawn (probably at Garland's "request") if it looked like it was actually going to pass easily.
    Nah I don't think that would happen - you've been watching too much House of Cards. This was a pretty straightforward attempt to embarrass Republicans by picking someone who was actually recommended by Republicans as a potential nominee earlier in his time in office. Nominating someone only to withdraw them because there was too much support... ugly politics and damages Obama's 'legacy.'

  12. #342
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Well, you know 'Today's Republican Party' is totally messed up when even Republicans agree.

    That's what I've been trying to say for years, despite criticisms from certain posters for how I've said it.

  13. #343
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Bump.

    Today's Republican Party is.....fairly well fucked up. The "leader" of the Republican party is POTUS, but he's fucked up, too. Is this what a constitutional crisis looks like?

  14. #344
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Parties in the US are relatively weak organizations. The media and most people like to forget this.

  15. #345
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Parties in the US are relatively weak organizations. The media and most people like to forget this.
    How can you say that when the political parties decide if we have open or closed primaries?

  16. #346
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    bump

    Today's Republican Party is FUBAR

  17. #347
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    They only hold the Presidency, Senate, House, over two thirds of state governors, over two thirds of state Houses, over two thirds of state Senates. Plus indirectly a majority of SCOTUS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #348
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    How can you say that when the political parties decide if we have open or closed primaries?
    I believe states usually decide that.

  19. #349
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    If you mean the state parties in control decide, then yeah.

    I disagree with your statement that US political parties are "relatively weak organizations". We have two very powerful parties that consume all the oxygen, and force others, even Independents, to run as Republicans or Democrats. The Tea Party and Bernie Sanders are good examples for that.

  20. #350
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I believe states usually decide that.
    Which are controlled by the 2 parties...
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  21. #351
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    They only hold the Presidency, Senate, House, over two thirds of state governors, over two thirds of state Houses, over two thirds of state Senates. Plus indirectly a majority of SCOTUS.
    And yet, no one can say what the Republican Party actually represents, other than its current power control

  22. #352
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    It's a broad church. Same with the Democrats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #353
    That's no moon. EyeKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    And yet, no one can say what the Republican Party actually represents, other than its current power control
    What is the one thing that fractious mess came together to pass last year, and in record time given the complexity of the legislation? That's what the Republican party represents -- all the repercussions and consequence of the bill, everyone and everything it will affect, and despite what all the angry rural, disaffected voters thought they were voting for.
    The Rules
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  24. #354
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    With Trump as the "leader" of the GOP, if there aren't Republicans jumping ship and/or demanding censure and/or impeachment (especially after his latest shithole covfefe) they can all go to hell. They're nothing more than opportunistic power mongers, making excuses for a white supremacist in the White House who will sign any bill they put on his desk.

  25. #355
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Trump isn't the "leader" of the GOP. That's not how your party system works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #356
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Trump isn't the "leader" of the GOP. That's not how your party system works.
    When POTUS gets elected under a party affiliation, yeah - he's considered that party's leader.

  27. #357
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Trump isn't the "leader" of the GOP. That's not how your party system works.
    The short answer is a president has tremendous influence over their party and most are able to leverage that power into becoming the de facto head of the party.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  28. #358
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Also, Trump wouldn't be president if he hadn't won the Republican Party's nomination first....

  29. #359
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    He may be the foremost Republican with the most de facto power but he can't either de facto or de jure control how other Republicans vote. He can't force Senators or Governors or other elected Republicans to back him in the same way that a party leader can here with our whipping system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #360
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    He may be the foremost Republican with the most de facto power but he can't either de facto or de jure control how other Republicans vote. He can't force Senators or Governors or other elected Republicans to back him in the same way that a party leader can here with our whipping system.
    He can't force them, but he enjoys a national bully pulpit (no congressman does), has the loyalty of the base, and has significant control over the budget and political appointments. Historically, that's been enough to "convince" wayward congressmen. So yes, you can't compare a president to a prime minister in terms of party control, but the president is the most visible representative of a party and has more power over it than anyone else.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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