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Thread: Today's Republican Party is....

  1. #31
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    I like how she admits to ending her support for the GOP in the early 1990s, and yet is using events from 2011 to justify her changing political sympathies.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  2. #32
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Fine, I'll bite.

    Is this any different from what any opposition party does when it's in the opposition? It's not.
    I don't recall any Democrat Senator (or leadership) making a statement like that the day after a Republican President was elected.

    Is this any different from what any opposition party does when it's in the opposition? It's not.
    It's different because of the numbers of filibusters used, and needing a super majority. And keeping one rep. as a seat warmer so technically they're "in session" and no out-of-session appointments can be made.

    Eh? I mean, I'm sure it's possibly happened, but is this some kind of regular thing not explainable by long/medium-term shifts in views?
    What's the last bill senate passed? How many are waiting? This is gridlock and weekly budget band-aids. Remember the credit ceiling debacle.

    While I think pledging to be inflexible isn't smart, I don't think the mere act of making a pledge is some kind of problem. Every politician makes pledges.
    Name another one with the kind of affect Norquist's has had....a written manifesto with signatures.

    This seems a bit silly for you to have beef with, considering the front-runner is a Mormon.
    It's not silly at all--to criticize the GOP leadership catering to Christian Fundamentals first. As was done during/after Values Voter summit, and their base claiming Mormons aren't Christians.

    This election seems pretty distant from social conservatism and religion. I think that's a good thing.
    I see it as an extension of the 2010 election results, immediately followed by bills to limit abortion, de-fund Planned Parenthood, keep DOMA and DADT.

    Fair point, but most states are basically unable to say no to federal funding.
    Then they shouldn't portray a false picture of condemning federal funds, while accepting them (even to balance a state budget--Texas).

    Positively not what is being argued.
    Right, I forgot, they also want to get rid of Regulations, including anything to reign in banks/financial industry. Even tonight's debate was more of the same: cut taxes, de-regulate, jobs will appear, wealth will trickle down. Where are the specifics, as in Education, Jobs Training, Infrastructure re-building, when they want to scrap federal funding for those things?

    The idea that high taxes are patriotic is pure sophistry. And the idea that we should be arguing about the Iraq and Afghani war now, and that they are uniquely Republican issues, is also a bit meh. Both parties voted for both wars.
    When was the last time the US cut taxes during War? It was a bad idea, during two Wars, and exacerbated the deficit. The longest deployment in our history isn't a "meh", especially when it's cost us billions (trillions counting wounded vets and long-term healthcare). Ron Paul is the only Republican who's been consistent about being non-interventionalist, not nation building, and bringing our troops home.

    This is politics, right?
    Yeah, politics as usual. It's safe to say people are sick of it, and want/expect better.

    Agreed


    Reagan also saw inequities in our tax structure that benefited the very wealthy, and wanted that changed.

    I think you're projecting.
    No, I'm going by what's frequently in the news. Remember the Tea Party protests with signs depicting President Obama as a witch doctor with a bone in his nose, or a Hitler mustache, and all those SSSocialism accusations? There's a distinct group of Republicans who claim Democrats are Socialists, or want to turn the US into a Socialist state, or become "like Socialist Europe".


    (icky format, Dread)

  3. #33
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    And there's a distinct group of Democrats who thought Bush was Satan/Hitler. I guess that's a good reason to stop voting Democrat.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  4. #34
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    And there's a distinct group of Democrats who thought Bush was Satan/Hitler. I guess that's a good reason to stop voting Democrat.
    Is that your way of saying the Democrats have swung as far left, as the Republicans have swung far right?

  5. #35
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    I'm saying that every large political entity is going to have its vocal idiotic supporters.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  6. #36
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    There's a distinct group of Republicans who claim Democrats are Socialists, or want to turn the US into a Socialist state, or become "like Socialist Europe".
    Yes, so? I'm sure there are plenty of Democrats who WOULD like to see the US go Social-Progressive.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  7. #37
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Yes, so? I'm sure there are plenty of Democrats who WOULD like to see the US go Social-Progressive.
    Do they hold similar sway as the Teaper freshmen?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  8. #38
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    While Bush was President, yes they seemed to.

    How much attention did groups like MoveOn.org get?

  9. #39
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    While Bush was President, yes they seemed to.

    How much attention did groups like MoveOn.org get?
    They didn't have a gun on the global economy's temple, but that's an unfair comparison all around. Maybe you could high-light some social progressive stuff gung-ho Dem representatives absolutely hammered through under the reign of Bush the Lesser, I'm sure there's some but me and my memory, oi vei!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  10. #40
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Meh, not really. The GOP has yet to actually nominate a Mormon, while the Dems have actually nominated three Catholics. One of 'em even won the election.
    Catholics ARE mainstream Christians, though. Protestant hysteria about secret control from Vatican City aside, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    There's a distinct group of Republicans who claim Democrats are Socialists, or want to turn the US into a Socialist state, or become "like Socialist Europe".
    Seems like a really odd complaint coming from you, given that you ARE a Democrat and DO want to turn the US into a much more socialist state, like "Socialist Europe." Mad that the Republicans figured it out, or what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    They didn't have a gun on the global economy's temple, but that's an unfair comparison all around.
    Or your political beliefs prevent you from seeing the situation accurately/fairly, given that the "loony left" which largely dominated the Democratic Party under "Bush the Lesser" lines up very well with your own political views, so you can't (or won't) see them as what they are... and they are analogous to the freshman Tea Party congressmen from the right.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  11. #41
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Or your political beliefs prevent you from seeing the situation accurately/fairly, given that the "loony left" which largely dominated the Democratic Party under "Bush the Lesser" lines up very well with your own political views, so you can't (or won't) see them as what they are... and they are analogous to the freshman Tea Party congressmen from the right.
    Quote Originally Posted by The post above
    Maybe you could high-light some social progressive stuff gung-ho Dem representatives absolutely hammered through under the reign of Bush the Lesser, I'm sure there's some but me and my memory, oi vei!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  12. #42
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Seems like an utter waste of time, but how about universal, government health care?
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  13. #43
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Seems like an utter waste of time, but how about universal, government health care?
    That didn't happen under Bush the Lesser, did it? And what did happen under the Negro in Chief was hardly universal.

    Kain, I know you lack the frame-work and capacity for understanding of this, but your Democratic party is to the right of our most right-leaning credible party. I have precious little reason to defend them on ideological grounds, and I usually do not. I do, however, have as much justification as you at laughing at the GOP and their fascist antics. Right?

    If you want a pillow to pummel the Dems with, that's okay, but I'm probably not your best bet there. What I assumed happened with Randy was that he didn't comprehend what I meant by Teaper freshmen (confusing the "grass-roots" fascist movement and their elected officials with the grass-root leftie movements), hence the question about the destructive influence of the Dems. Today, both the GOP and the Dems are roughly as eager to rob you at gun-point each year, correct? The Teapers harp about not taxing people, but they also darling people like that Pizza King who would lob most taxes on the poor and middle classes, which I'm guessing you fall into quite handily (note that according to Fox, people making under 250k are poor). So you're fucked either way, given your definition of fucked. There's no party loyalty on either our parts, it seems, yet you wish to tar me with that brush, how come? Because it is easy?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  14. #44
    Absolutely Sane Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
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    I'm going to bite as well, although I'm far from the US politiks expert here. Or even knowledgeable. I've heard of Michelle Bachmann, so going by Dutch standards I'm above average. The problem I have is I usually have to go by second hand information which already has passed through someone's digestive system

    Senator McConnell stating the GOP's main goal is to make Obama a one term president. Parroted by Michele Bachman and others.
    Yeah I was shocked as well. That he stated that. I imagine the mo is not stating it.

    Abuse of filibusters and congressional rules to obstruct legislation.
    Pleading ignorance here.

    Refusal to pass legislation once advocated by the GOP, if Democrats also agree.
    I heard the stimulus plan was for one third tax cuts. Still the republicans could find something positive to say about it and I suspect they wouldn't if the stimulus plan saved the orphans from a burning orphanage.

    Too many Republicans having taken an oath to serve Grover Norquist instead of serving their constituents.



    The ridiculous vetting of candidates that begins with religion, where only Christian conservatives make the grade.
    Not uniquely Rep I'd say, although in the Rep primaries they're more prone to battle for the most pious candidate.

    Dominance of religion and social conservatism over any type of actual governance.
    Well, that's expected isn't it?

    Anti-federal stimulus unless it means paying (their) state debts with federal monies.
    Hypocrisy in politicians? Say it aint so.

    Proclaiming the way to growth is to cut all taxes.

    Yeah, that is annoying. This Job Creator narrative also bugs the hell out of me. And they have to pander to the TEA party. They have to.

    Involving our nation in two Wars of 'questionable merit', while cutting taxes.
    Which ones? You think Afghanistan was questionable? Increasing spending overall while cutting taxes might have been a better criticism. I was always thought to save up when times are good so I have something when times are bad. Times were good. There could have been saving, but it didn't happen.

    Inability to admit when policy was wrong, and refusing to take responsibility for their part.
    Again, politicians not taking responsibility or admitting they were wrong is kind of like a job requirement.

    Idolizing Ronald Reagan as a conservative while denying his role as a moderate.
    I find that hilarious actually. Doubly so when idiots (aka voters) are the incentive of doing so. I think you have some influential Talking Heads to thank for that.

    Suggesting only Republicans are freedom loving patriots, and all Democrats are SSSocialists.
    The idea that there's a real-America, as uttered by that Television Filling Attention Whore would be my pet-peeve.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
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  15. #45
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    So, like I said, utter waste of time. Anything anyone does come up with in answer to your question will be dismissed because the Dems didn't get it passed while the GOP was in power (duh) or because it's not left-wing by the standards of one of the most socialist regions of the planet. (Duh, again.)

    Or, like I said originally, your political views prevent you from seeing the situation accurately/fairly.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  16. #46
    Absolutely Sane Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Or, like I said originally, your political views prevent you from seeing the situation accurately/fairly.
    Wouldn't you yourself (or even anyone) possibly have the same disadvantage?
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  17. #47
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    So, like I said, utter waste of time. Anything anyone does come up with in answer to your question will be dismissed because the Dems didn't get it passed while the GOP was in power (duh) or because it's not left-wing by the standards of one of the most socialist regions of the planet. (Duh, again.)

    Or, like I said originally, your political views prevent you from seeing the situation accurately/fairly.
    Keep fighting the good fight, huh?

    Another thing; you high-lighted Mittens as the height of GOP compassion earlier because despite his robust Mormonism, he's a Serious Contender in the race for Serious Men. But perhaps above his Mormonism, he'll be purity-tested for his greatest transgression, a state-level version of Obamacare. What a looney, left-wing character for you to raise on that pedestal, huh?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  18. #48
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Yeah, good luck with that.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  19. #49
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    With what, Mittens? I'm a Michele fan, myself.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  20. #50
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Catholics ARE mainstream Christians, though. Protestant hysteria about secret control from Vatican City aside, of course.
    They aren't according to this metric we're apparently using, based on credibly running for President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    They didn't have a gun on the global economy's temple, but that's an unfair comparison all around. Maybe you could high-light some social progressive stuff gung-ho Dem representatives absolutely hammered through under the reign of Bush the Lesser, I'm sure there's some but me and my memory, oi vei!
    Uh. . . I didn't say all Dems were that way, I said some. And the Dems didn't manage to grab control of Congress at all until the last two years of his presidency. I can think of a major SP initiative they pushed under Obama *though the final form, based as it was on some compromise with the GOP and a massive amount of internal compromise in the Democratic party, didn't satisfy anyone.*
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  21. #51
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Uh. . . I didn't say all Dems were that way, I said some. And the Dems didn't manage to grab control of Congress at all until the last two years of his presidency. I can think of a major SP initiative they pushed under Obama *though the final form, based as it was on some compromise with the GOP and a massive amount of internal compromise in the Democratic party, didn't satisfy anyone.*
    Yeah, but that was my point! Some Dems are leftist even by my (according to Kain insane) metrics, but what kind of power do they actually hold? The Teaper freshmen had a pretty good showing this year, but insofar as I can remember (and this is where I trip!), there hasn't been such a success for the "social progressives" in the US. There was some health-care reform but not enough (neither side of the aisle is happy), they let faggots be faggots in the military (this is a progressive yay, I admit), but there's still a big if on the faggot marriage thing...What am I missing? And let's not forget that the Teapers are not a minority within the GOP wanting to slash the welfare net, they're just the vocal front!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  22. #52
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Yeah, but that was my point! Some Dems are leftist even by my (according to Kain insane) metrics, but what kind of power do they actually hold? The Teaper freshmen had a pretty good showing this year, but insofar as I can remember (and this is where I trip!), there hasn't been such a success for the "social progressives" in the US. There was some health-care reform but not enough (neither side of the aisle is happy), they let faggots be faggots in the military (this is a progressive yay, I admit), but there's still a big if on the faggot marriage thing...What am I missing? And let's not forget that the Teapers are not a minority within the GOP wanting to slash the welfare net, they're just the vocal front!
    I'm confused. Health reform, even if it wasn't all that they might have wanted, did get passed. What actual legislative success have "the Teaper freshmen" enjoyed? The only real challenge they made was trying to prevent the debt limit from being raised. And they didn't get many concessions before they caved. Gingrich's "New Republicans" got a lot further with that ploy back in 1995.

    Oh wait, I forgot, you have a massively overblown view of the Tea Party's presence and power, in Congress and with the public, and nothing I say has ever made the least dent in that delusion.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  23. #53
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Oh wait, I forgot, you have a massively overblown view of the Tea Party's presence and power, in Congress and with the public, and nothing I say has ever made the least dent in that delusion.
    You sly dog you, you didn't forget, you just wanted to make fun of me in front of an audience. Fair enough, consider my protests withdrawn.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  24. #54
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Am I allowed to say "dog" at a person? Is that racist against someone?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  25. #55
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    With what, Mittens?
    That whole j00s, oops, I mean G00Ps thing you were trying to suck me into.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    They aren't according to this metric we're apparently using, based on credibly running for President.
    Eh? There's been a Catholic president. Granted, one who was assassinated before he could secretly transfer control over America to the Pope, but a Catholic nonetheless.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  26. #56
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    j00s

    j9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999s
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  27. #57
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    No, not j00s, G00Ps!

    Or, G999999999999999999999999999999999999999Ps, according to you, I suppose.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  28. #58
    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    No, not j00s, G00Ps!

    Or, G999999999999999999999999999999999999999Ps, according to you, I suppose.
    j89998999999999999999999999999999999999999999s
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  29. #59
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Yes, so? I'm sure there are plenty of Democrats who WOULD like to see the US go Social-Progressive.
    First of all, I'm comparing today's GOP with its older versions, not necessarily the Democratic Party. The GOP has definitely swung farther to the social conservative side, including a religious criteria. It's evident in most every PAC or coalition or summit where contenders for office are invited to speak, and gain voter support. The party that used to stand for what the government shouldn't be doing, is now the party that's Pro-Life/anti-abortion, pro-DOMA/anti-gay marriage, and DADT. The GOP has those who introduce legislation like banning Sharia Law and fan the flames about Muslims. Herman Cain has said no Muslim should hold public office. Their leadership is busy having an internal struggle about Romney and his religion, if the Fundamental Christian base will vote for a "non-Christian Mormon". Only Gov. Christie has come forward to denounce this ridiculous religious litmus testing (and saying he's tired of dealing with The Crazies).

    Secondly, the Democrats have consistently had a socially progressive platform, that's nothing new. That party hasn't changed much, they'd still be the party to stand for what the government should be doing to support minority groups, LGBT, civil rights, labor, middle class, the poor, and elderly.

  30. #60
    Absolutely Sane Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Oh wait, I forgot, you have a massively overblown view of the Tea Party's presence and power, in Congress and with the public, and nothing I say has ever made the least dent in that delusion.
    I do to. I guess mainly because of stuff like: "the TEA party debate" where all the important republican candidates show up to woo those votes their way. I'd love my illusion to be dented. Not really a strong illusion anyway. Fishing wires.

    Is it just cosmetic and rhetorical pandering while ignoring them on the legislative stage just to get the votes? I think it's likely that when TEA party supported candidate wins the office, there's going to be just as sour faces as the die hard Obama supporters have now. Washington seems to me to be this oiltanker like mammoth with the turning circle of Mars. Every candidate every election runs on change, and they always largely fail to deliver. Too many interests, stakes too high for radical change.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

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