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Thread: Today's Republican Party is....

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  1. #1
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Default Today's Republican Party is....

    Probably too many reasons to list, but here's my partial explanation:

    Senator McConnell stating the GOP's main goal is to make Obama a one term president. Parroted by Michele Bachman and others.
    Abuse of filibusters and congressional rules to obstruct legislation.
    Refusal to pass legislation once advocated by the GOP, if Democrats also agree.
    Too many Republicans having taken an oath to serve Grover Norquist instead of serving their constituents.
    The ridiculous vetting of candidates that begins with religion, where only Christian conservatives make the grade.
    Dominance of religion and social conservatism over any type of actual governance.
    Anti-federal stimulus unless it means paying (their) state debts with federal monies.
    Proclaiming the way to growth is to cut all taxes.
    Involving our nation in two Wars of 'questionable merit', while cutting taxes.
    Inability to admit when policy was wrong, and refusing to take responsibility for their part.
    Idolizing Ronald Reagan as a conservative while denying his role as a moderate.
    Suggesting only Republicans are freedom loving patriots, and all Democrats are SSSocialists.
    Last edited by GGT; 10-11-2011 at 07:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    My guess is many registered Republicans aren't happy with the national GOP, either. I have Republican friends/family that only retain that title so they can vote in state closed primaries. It's a real shame that people have to choose between fiscal and social conservatism, as defined by our two parties.

  3. #3
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    The GOP had your support? So you voted McCain in '08 did you? Or GOP in '10? Or Bush before then?

    No offence Geegee, but you've always struck me as a lifelong Dem. Or at least in recent years. You can't lose something that you never had.

  4. #4
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The GOP had your support? So you voted McCain in '08 did you? Or GOP in '10? Or Bush before then?

    No offence Geegee, but you've always struck me as a lifelong Dem. Or at least in recent years. You can't lose something that you never had.
    Maybe I'm older than you think, and have voted in many more elections than you know (counting more than presidential elections). My voting record used to be more Republican than Democrat, even though I've always been a registered Independent. But that was before the GOP came to mean Christian Conservatives before all else.

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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Of course GGT is like twice as old as anyone else here so she has had a long life and a lot of time to change her mind but I'd be very surprised if there had been much resupporting going on. Not many people go from being conservatives in their youth to becoming liberals as cranky old men and women. I don't think so anyway. Okay I might be wrong about this.
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    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Of course GGT is like twice as old as anyone else here so she has had a long life and a lot of time to change her mind but I'd be very surprised if there had been much resupporting going on. Not many people go from being conservatives in their youth to becoming liberals as cranky old men and women. I don't think so anyway. Okay I might be wrong about this.
    Damn you, minx. I'll turn 53 fucking years old in November, so yeah, I'm probably twice as old as most people here. Old enough to be your mother.

    And FYI, changing political affiliation is fluid and dynamic over time, and very normal. I read [something somewhere] that typically young people start out very liberal and become more conservative as they age. Dread is a perfect example of that. But some things are neglected when figuring this out, from the outside. Like cultural norms at the time, and whether there's a War going on. My older sisters were part of the VietNam era more than I was. They had friends that were drafted and never came home. My sister's husband flies a flag for his best friend that had the bad luck to be drafted and die in the conflict. So many decades later, and he still feels some guilt.

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    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    I read [something somewhere] that typically young people start out very liberal and become more conservative as they age. Dread is a perfect example of that. But some things are neglected when figuring this out, from the outside. Like cultural norms at the time, and whether there's a War going on. My older sisters were part of the VietNam era more than I was. They had friends that were drafted and never came home. My sister's husband flies a flag for his best friend that had the bad luck to be drafted and die in the conflict. So many decades later, and he still feels some guilt.
    As a teenager, whilst I didn't understand, nor was interested in, politics, I had varying views of: drugs should be illegal, discrimination laws all the way, America is bad (along with the EU, although that still holds for them), free health care for everyone, free education, free this free that and so on. These views were primarily a result of a left-wing styled education through out high school (don't get me started, but writing an essay on Americanisation, come on..), along with the left-wing theme that is common in my state. Although now that I've 'grown up', read a bit here and there, realised that I don't have the right to say (and advocate for law) what a person can do with their own property, body, etc (so long as they're not taking away the right of another person to his/her life), in the end I decided that if I'm to think rationally in other aspects of my life, I should apply it to my political views.

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    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco View Post
    ..... in the end I decided that if I'm to think rationally in other aspects of my life, I should apply it to my political views.
    Well, in the end, there is no end to the dynamism of life. Political views should change over time, even if only slightly, because the world is constantly changing. My oldest son and I have had looong conversations about this....he makes my head hurt. That's a good thing.

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    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Of course GGT is like twice as old as anyone else here so she has had a long life and a lot of time to change her mind
    But then why is pretty much everything she listed recent. Heck much of it from the last two or three years? Did she seem like a Republican five years ago, to you? I would not have pegged her for GOP then, myself.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

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    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    We really need a whole thread about how you prefer Marx to Smith?

    Get a grip, GeeGee. You don't like the GOP because they're the less socialist of the two major parties.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

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    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    We really need a whole thread about how you prefer Marx to Smith?

    Get a grip, GeeGee. You don't like the GOP because they're the less socialist of the two major parties.
    There are millions "like me", but it didn't seem quite right to title the thread "Why the Republican Party is losing support".

    I don't like the GOP because they've become a religious party, deciding their platform and picking their candidates based on who's "Christian" and who's not.

  12. #12
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    I don't like the GOP because they've become a religious party, deciding their platform and picking their candidates based on who's "Christian" and who's not.
    So, you dislike the GOP because they're less bigoted than the Democrats? Well, thanks for that refreshing honesty, but most people prefer less bigotry, not more.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Exactly, that list implies that 5 years ago, not 30, she was a GOPer.
    I personally find her being a GOPer even 30 years ago to stretch plausibility too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Does the fact no one has directly addressed the items in the OP mean they're not contended? Is it a yeah-it's-fucked-up-but-you-should-see-the-other-guy(s) attitude?
    Well, I can't speak for others, but even if I were so inclined as to jump in and defend the GOP, I don't really think that trying to have a factual discussion with the poster in question to be a particularly worthwhile endeavor. Time better spent hunting unicorns and all that. But Loki pretty much nailed it when he said they're all either silly exaggerations and/or apply equally to the Democrats, so... meh.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Back in the ancient times when GGT voted Republican the GOP was the more socialist of the two major parties?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  14. #14
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Back in our ancient times, being Republican and voting Republican had nothing to do with Religion.

    But even Democrats were worried about having a Catholic President.....

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    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Exactly, that list implies that 5 years ago, not 30, she was a GOPer. As much as you register as an Independent Geegee, you're not truly independent. Nobody is, I swing to the right and you the left.

  16. #16
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Most of these are not new Republican policies and at least half can be applied to the Democrats. Someone is trying to parrot Tear's attempts to claim open-mindedness.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  17. #17
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    So basically GGT is lying about her voting history? Or she made up her mind in the last five years? Or the GOP has been too religious only for the past five years? Or she made up her mind more than five years ago? Why on earth was this thread moved to D&D??
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  18. #18
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    So basically GGT is lying about her voting history? Or she made up her mind in the last five years? Or the GOP has been too religious only for the past five years? Or she made up her mind more than five years ago? Why on earth was this thread moved to D&D??
    GGT doesn't make up her mind on a rational basis. I don't know whether she did or did not support the GOP, but she certainly did not support any significant portion of the GOP platform since she's been here/Atari.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  19. #19
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    So basically GGT is lying about her voting history? Or she made up her mind in the last five years? Or the GOP has been too religious only for the past five years? Or she made up her mind more than five years ago? Why on earth was this thread moved to D&D??
    My voting record is older than Atard forums (Loki). I voted for Reagan and Bush, Sr. if that matters, and plenty of Republicans for senate and state offices, Dick Lugar is one well known name. But that was before the party began its obsession with religion.

    The GOP became more religious-oriented since The Moral Majority, and it's only gotten worse in recent years. The campaigning for 2012 began in Jan. 2009 by calling Obama a Muslim (from Kenya) Now they're vetting who's "most Christian" as decided by Fundamentalists and Christian Coalition, who don't consider Mormonism to be Christianity.

    That's the first test a GOP candidate has to pass on the way to getting the nomination, followed by being pro-life/anti-abortion. It's a ridiculous way to elect candidates---first elimination round based on religion. The Democratic Party doesn't begin choosing candidates the same way.

    Where are the Republicans ready to defend or deny that the GOP has become the Christian Conservative Party, first and foremost?

  20. #20
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Where are the Republicans ready to defend or deny that the GOP has become the Christian Conservative Party, first and foremost?
    And the last serious DNC nominee who wasn't a mainstream Christian was...?

    Hell, by having a serious contender who's a Mormon, the GOP's shown more diversity on the issue than the DNC has, so really, you ought to voice your support by voting GOP this election cycle. Unless, as Loki postulated, this is just your attempt to convince yourself and/or others that you're "open minded," when you're about as close-minded as can be.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

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    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    And the last serious DNC nominee who wasn't a mainstream Christian was...?

    Hell, by having a serious contender who's a Mormon, the GOP's shown more diversity on the issue than the DNC has
    Meh, not really. The GOP has yet to actually nominate a Mormon, while the Dems have actually nominated three Catholics. One of 'em even won the election.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

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    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Meh, not really. The GOP has yet to actually nominate a Mormon, while the Dems have actually nominated three Catholics. One of 'em even won the election.
    Catholics ARE mainstream Christians, though. Protestant hysteria about secret control from Vatican City aside, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    There's a distinct group of Republicans who claim Democrats are Socialists, or want to turn the US into a Socialist state, or become "like Socialist Europe".
    Seems like a really odd complaint coming from you, given that you ARE a Democrat and DO want to turn the US into a much more socialist state, like "Socialist Europe." Mad that the Republicans figured it out, or what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    They didn't have a gun on the global economy's temple, but that's an unfair comparison all around.
    Or your political beliefs prevent you from seeing the situation accurately/fairly, given that the "loony left" which largely dominated the Democratic Party under "Bush the Lesser" lines up very well with your own political views, so you can't (or won't) see them as what they are... and they are analogous to the freshman Tea Party congressmen from the right.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  23. #23
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    I didn't move it, but it is politics.

  24. #24
    Absolutely Sane Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
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    Does the fact no one has directly addressed the items in the OP mean they're not contended? Is it a yeah-it's-fucked-up-but-you-should-see-the-other-guy(s) attitude?
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
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  25. #25
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Does the fact no one has directly addressed the items in the OP mean they're not contended? Is it a yeah-it's-fucked-up-but-you-should-see-the-other-guy(s) attitude?
    I suppose the latter? I guess? A person's political perspective is necessarily subjective and personal. It can't be characterized as right or wrong. And yeah, anyone can find things to dislike in the goals or actions of a party. The bigger the tent *both in relative and in absolute terms* the more things one can find to like or dislike, as the party's size forces it to address more and more things in a fully realized manner.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  26. #26
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Most of them are some combination of caricature, exaggeration, poor reason for not voting for a party, or things that can be equally applied to the Democrats...
    Hope is the denial of reality

  27. #27
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Actually, the GOP alliance with evangelical groups started with Reagan, whom you claimed to have voted for. And Bush Sr. was the guy who said that atheists shouldn't be regarded as citizens.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  28. #28
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    He said that?! I thought that was just an unproven rumor...
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  29. #29
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    You're right; didn't realize it was unconfirmed.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  30. #30
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You're right; didn't realize it was unconfirmed.
    More than just an uncredited rumour though, its a sourced quotation just not proven. Considering its sourced as accredited journalist saying it was said, has Bush or anyone else denied that it was said?

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