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Thread: Joblessness

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Another reason not to rely on the unemployment rate as an indication of the actual number of people unemployed at any given time.
    Its not supposed to measure that, which is why adjustments are made.
    And still, nobody has explained why they call it rate.
    Because it is a rate. Rate doesn't always mean degrees of change.

  2. #32
    Underemployed make jobless figures 'deceptively good'
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8518606.stm

  3. #33
    Isn't it sort of common knowledge that all these numbers can't be isolated from other numbers?

    We could have 100% employment, but if it's mostly minimum or low wage temp jobs in the service industry, without things like affordable health care or saving for retirement, there will still be huge numbers of people who live at or below poverty levels.

  4. #34
    CNN failed...

    Is your job recession-proof?

    Industry No. 4: Health care

    Nearly half of the 30 fastest growing jobs are in health services, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Some of these jobs include medical assistants, physical therapists and home health aides.

    Employers in California entice nurses with $7,500 signing bonuses for hard-to-fill jobs and $3,500 for traditional positions, according to the California Jobs Journal. They're also providing $3,000 annually for continuing education and relocation reimbursement, as well as time off to pursue professional interests, overtime pay and the option to work 12-hour shifts with four days off per week.

    Other thriving jobs in health care: Physician assistants, medical records and health information technicians, and personal and home care aides.
    And now...

    Humana cutting workforce by 1,400 jobs in 2010

  5. #35
    Republicans and some democrats could say NO to job creation...
    Job-creation bill could fail in Senate
    By bye recovery...

  6. #36
    Real Unemployment Rate

    A pretty good article that lays out, in layman's terms, the difference between the number fed to the media and it's association with more realistic measures.

    U-6: The Real Unemployment Rate
    The U-6 measure provides the broadest measure of labor underutilization because it is defined as the total unemployed populace, plus all "marginally attached" workers, plus all persons employed part-time for economic reasons, as a percentage of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached" workers.
    "Marginally attached" workers are defined as persons without jobs who are not currently looking for work (and hence not considered unemployed) but who have demonstrated some degree of labor force attachment. To be included in this category, individuals must indicate that they currently want a job, have looked for work in the last 12 months, and are available for work.
    One subset of the "marginally attached" group is "discouraged workers." Discouraged workers are those who are not currently looking for work because they:

    • believe that no job is available to them in their line of work
    • have been unable to find work
    • lack the necessary schooling, skills or experience, or
    • face some form of discrimination from employers (for example, being too young or too old)
    The U-6 measure is being increasingly referred to as the real unemployment rate. Proponents of this measure contend that it represents the true nature of the unemployment problem, since it includes:
    • people without jobs
    • those who would like to work but have not actively sought jobs in the past four weeks due to issues such as childcare, family obligations, or other temporary problems
    • discouraged workers who have stopped looking for work because they think it is futile
    • underemployed people, which includes those who are actually employed but are working fewer hours than they would like
    .

  7. #37
    Good article except for the fact that graduates don't count as unemployed if they are looking for jobs but can't find them, because they haven't held a job before..

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    Good article except for the fact that graduates don't count as unemployed if they are looking for jobs but can't find them, because they haven't held a job before..
    The U-6 measure does count them as unemployed. Note that the measure most commonly reported in the media is U-3.
    .

  9. #39
    I was talking about the first few paragraphs, that is.

  10. #40
    The "new poor", our "new economy", long slog playing catch-up.


    Millions of Unemployed Face Years Without Jobs

    [...]

    Every downturn pushes some people out of the middle class before the economy resumes expanding. Most recover. Many prosper. But some economists worry that this time could be different. An unusual constellation of forces — some embedded in the modern-day economy, others unique to this wrenching recession — might make it especially difficult for those out of work to find their way back to their middle-class lives.

    Labor experts say the economy needs 100,000 new jobs a month just to absorb entrants to the labor force. With more than 15 million people officially jobless, even a vigorous recovery is likely to leave an enormous number out of work for years.

    Some labor experts note that severe economic downturns are generally followed by powerful expansions, suggesting that aggressive hiring will soon resume. But doubts remain about whether such hiring can last long enough to absorb anywhere close to the millions of unemployed.

    A New Scarcity of Jobs

    Some labor experts say the basic functioning of the American economy has changed in ways that make jobs scarce — particularly for older, less-educated people like Ms. Eisen, who has only a high school diploma.

    Large companies are increasingly owned by institutional investors who crave swift profits, a feat often achieved by cutting payroll. The declining influence of unions has made it easier for employers to shift work to part-time and temporary employees. Factory work and even white-collar jobs have moved in recent years to low-cost countries in Asia and Latin America. Automation has helped manufacturing cut 5.6 million jobs since 2000 — the sort of jobs that once provided lower-skilled workers with middle-class paychecks.

    “American business is about maximizing shareholder value,” said Allen Sinai, chief global economist at the research firm Decision Economics. “You basically don’t want workers. You hire less, and you try to find capital equipment to replace them.”
    [continued...http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/21/bu...gewanted=1&hp]

  11. #41
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100223/..._stimulus_jobs

    To think, it only cost us about $500,000 per job saved in a country where the median income is about one tenth that.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100223/..._stimulus_jobs

    To think, it only cost us about $500,000 per job saved in a country where the median income is about one tenth that.
    Are you leaning toward fair trade?
    .

  13. #43
    Nearly 20 percent of U.S. workers underemployed

    Nearly 20 percent of the U.S. workforce lacked adequate employment in January and struggled to make ends meet with reduced resources and bleak job prospects, according to a Gallup poll released on Tuesday.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Are you leaning toward fair trade?
    HUH? Loki's coming around to the fact that our government cannot create jobs efficiently... How is a British liberal term related?

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    HUH? Loki's coming around to the fact that our government cannot create jobs efficiently... How is a British liberal term related?
    How is it British and how is it liberal?
    .

  16. #46
    Stress

    I assume that leads to lowering the unemployment rate.
    .

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    How is it British and how is it liberal?
    I don't really know what you mean by "fair trade" (why should "fairness" play a part in trade?) so I took a stab.

    "Fair Trade" is a term that the British created to show how they are atoning for their century of dominance of African and Asian countries: privately, they buy stuff for a higher price from small villages than American, South American, or European massive farms and claim that it's fairer this way and the stuff is better quality. I think the government also incentives it via some subsidies and taxes but I'm not sure. That goes against all economic principles of efficient trade so that makes it liberal.

    Here's a link.

  18. #48
    Unemployment Funds for US States Getting Drained in Recession

    The recession’s jobless toll is draining unemployment-compensation funds so fast that according to federal projections, 40 state programs will go broke within two years and need $90 billion in loans to keep issuing the benefit checks.

    California Unemployment Rate: Unemployment Down but Number of Jobs Falls too.

    "The statewide unemployment rate fell slightly to 12.3% last month from 12.5% in October, according to figures released Friday by the Employment Development Department, but only because thousands of discouraged workers have left the labor force or even moved out of state."

  19. #49
    FairTrade is the big left thing de jour - it has its problems but is better than most normal lefty things, at least there's actually an element of people working to get help rather than just having it handed to them.

  20. #50

  21. #51
    Locke Vows to Push for 'Fair Trade'
    "I've always believed in fair trade. I believe it's appropriate that there's minimum standards that other countries should abide by if we're allowing their products to come in to the United States," Mr. Locke said during an interview with The Wall Street Journal.

    "If the apple growers of Washington State have to abide by all these environmental and health and human safety standards and the workers of other countries don't have to, it puts Washington State apples at a disadvantage," said Mr. Locke, a former governor of Washington State. "Same thing with Boeing airplanes. If other countries are able to significantly subsidize the cost of development and production of an airplane then it puts Boeing at a competitive disadvantage and it hurts the aerospace workers of America."
    .

  22. #52
    Fair trade = it's not fair that other people have an advantage over us and benefit the consumers in our country; therefore our government should save us from nefarious competition
    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #53
    Nefarious? Good job of trivializing things.
    .

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Fair trade = it's not fair that other people have an advantage over us and benefit the consumers in our country; therefore our government should save us from nefarious competition
    Which is the complete opposite of FairTrade in the UK.

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The results of unemployment surveys are adjusted for seasonal trends (i.e. otherwise there would always be a decrease in unemployment right before Christmas).
    Just today I've read two articles talking about the winter storms, household survey vs business surveys, distorting data in both, yadayada. Apparently it's not as adjusted as you claim.

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Which is the complete opposite of FairTrade in the UK.
    Fair trade in the UK is choosing random poor people in the developing world and overpaying them for their products, thereby distorting the market (i.e. making people produce things that they don't have a comparative advantage in) and leading to economic collapse the second the fad goes away.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  27. #57
    In the U.S. Free Trade and Fair Trade often conflict because the cost advantage of foreign production is often do to distinct differences in labor and environmental laws.
    .

  28. #58
    Who knew that labor-intensive countries would have a comparative advantage in labor costs. Amazing. Now we just need the labor-intensive countries to refuse to import American high-end products, as America is capital abundant. Then we can go back to extreme protectionism, depression, and world war. At least the factory workers in America won't lose their jobs.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  29. #59
    Direct labor costs are only a part of the advantage. Indirect labor costs and other externalities are a larger part of the cost disparity of U.S. production versus foreign production. Do you condone dropping our standards to theirs so we are more competative?
    .

  30. #60
    Comparative advantage. If people were able to understand it a century and a half ago, you can understand it now.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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