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Thread: Voter Photo ID -- Is It Really Terrible?

  1. #301
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/o...ppression.html

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  2. #302
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Southern democracy.
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  3. #303
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    I'll be moving to a new voting district, in the same county. I changed my address on-line (for which the US Postal Service required a debit or credit card to charge the $1.00 fee!), and was asked if I wanted to update my voter registration, too? Yes, please. Well, I couldn't do it without following the prompts from advertisers offering discounts. Even then, it didn't tell me my new polling place (where I actually go to vote), or what kind of ID would be required.

    Would changing my mailing address be enough, or would I have to get a new driver's license, or take another photo ID? I still don't know. Moving within the same county shouldn't be so difficult. And voting shouldn't be so difficult (or expensive) that people just give up and don't show up.

  4. #304
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    You don't need a new driver's license in the same state
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    I'll be moving to a new voting district, in the same county. I changed my address on-line (for which the US Postal Service required a debit or credit card to charge the $1.00 fee!), and was asked if I wanted to update my voter registration, too? Yes, please. Well, I couldn't do it without following the prompts from advertisers offering discounts. Even then, it didn't tell me my new polling place (where I actually go to vote), or what kind of ID would be required.

    Would changing my mailing address be enough, or would I have to get a new driver's license, or take another photo ID? I still don't know. Moving within the same county shouldn't be so difficult. And voting shouldn't be so difficult (or expensive) that people just give up and don't show up.
    The $1 is to fight fraud. If you had done it in person there would not have been a fee. All government agencies are required by law to offer to change your voters registration when you create or update accounts with them. We even have to do it at the library when people get or update library cards. Most states have laws for how long you can go after moving before you have to get a new license. Your ID is still valid but can cause additional headaches if you get stopped by the police for anything. When you go to vote your voter's id card and your license (even if its got the old address) is all you need.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 12-14-2017 at 01:44 PM.
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  6. #306
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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  7. #307
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Dread, don't debase yourself like this.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #308
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    In other news, Dread is still an idiot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Dread, don't debase yourself like this.
    Way too late for that.
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  9. #309
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Dread, don't debase yourself like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    In other news, Dread is still an idiot.



    Way too late for that.
    I find that pretty rich [from] people in countries that have voter ID laws.
    Last edited by Dreadnaught; 12-21-2017 at 12:14 PM.

  10. #310
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I find that pretty rich people in countries that have voter ID laws.
    In countries where other voting-related obstacles are mainly absent.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  11. #311
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    If government provide the ID completely free of charge would y'all still be opposed to requiring photo ID to vote?

  12. #312
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I find that pretty rich people in countries that have voter ID laws.
    It's perfectly possible to vote without a photo ID in Sweden, and practically no significant obstacles to obtaining ID, due to Big Brother knowing everything about everyone. But the point is that your link doesn't show you to be right. It shows that you've come an extremely basic error of reasoning.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  13. #313
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    No the Tweet that Dread quoted was a nonsense "heads I win, tails you lose" twisted kind of logic.

    I believe that in both this election, and nation-wide in 2012, that African American turnout was higher than white turnout.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    If government provide the ID completely free of charge would y'all still be opposed to requiring photo ID to vote?
    You'd still have the barriers of fees for acquiring the documents needed for that ID, and the time away from work to get the ID, and the issue of placing ID issuing locations as far from certain communities as possible.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  15. #315
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    It's perfectly possible to vote without a photo ID in Sweden, and practically no significant obstacles to obtaining ID, due to Big Brother knowing everything about everyone. But the point is that your link doesn't show you to be right. It shows that you've come an extremely basic error of reasoning.
    Rand seems to understand what you did not. The voter ID madness is a peculiar ailment indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    You'd still have the barriers of fees for acquiring the documents needed for that ID, and the time away from work to get the ID, and the issue of placing ID issuing locations as far from certain communities as possible.
    So basically no voter identification system is reasonable unless a concierge bureaucrat shows up at your residence to make you a free ID on the spot. Any effort required to procure that ID is somehow discrimination. Gotcha.

  16. #316
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    "Voter suppression didn't work/happen in this one specific election under unprecedented circumstances, therefore it's nothing to worry about" - Dreadnaught

    "But we need to worry about voter fraud, and take steps to combat it, even though there's no evidence it actually takes place on any great scale" - Also Dreadnaught
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  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    So basically no voter identification system is reasonable unless a concierge bureaucrat shows up at your residence to make you a free ID on the spot. Any effort required to procure that ID is somehow discrimination. Gotcha.
    I wouldn't say bureaucrat. My states DMV services come directly to my work, but that doesn't cover the debilitating fees (this is a long standing blind spot for you).

    Also, stop being an asshole, if you can't actually debate on merit, don't try. This over the top rhetoric is childish, even for someone as immature as yourself.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  18. #318
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    If government provide the ID completely free of charge would y'all still be opposed to requiring photo ID to vote?
    Well, do you have to drive for two hours to find a government office that will actually issue you the id since the state closed every single office in your own county? Yes? Than yeah, I'll still be opposed to requiring the photo id. It doesn't matter if you make something available "for free" if you make sure people still can't get it for other reasons.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  19. #319
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    What if you could get it in your own county? Or if you could get it by post or online?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #320
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    How do people apply? Please describe the process from beginning to end.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  21. #321
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Who are you asking? I don't know how Americans apply. I've long said you should be able to apply easily. Not that you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #322
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    If easy to get for everyone then I'm not opposed to voter ID (we have it here too but having an ID is mandatory anyway, so everyone should have one already). But you should make the ID easily available before adding it as a requirement, not the other way round. And definitely not require it and then make it harder to get..
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  23. #323
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Absolutely!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #324
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    But that would defeat the point... I mean, it's too expensive. Big government. Personal responsibility. If they cared enough about voting they'd drive two hours to get a photo ID and like it. Something something states rights. </republican>
    I can hear your yearnings, your anguished cries. Let the nourishment pass your by.
    As it leaves you without a trace, it leaves your without the scars.
    Bitter is the end, the end of your cries. Let your nourishment pass you by.
    It'll leave you without your faith. It'll leave you without your grace.
    It's a day of the ruins, the time of your relief. It's the day of the judgements. It's the day of your beliefs.

  25. #325
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    I suspect having one website we go to in order to apply for a Drivers License all processed by the DMV in Swansea (Wales) is a lot cheaper to run than having a DMV in every county.

    I've never gone to the DMV in my life. In fact I don't think I've ever been to Swansea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #326
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    If you wanna make government services like that internet only, you really do have to start thinking about making internet access a right, and I can only imagine the wails of consternation from the Right at the mere thought of such a thing.
    I can hear your yearnings, your anguished cries. Let the nourishment pass your by.
    As it leaves you without a trace, it leaves your without the scars.
    Bitter is the end, the end of your cries. Let your nourishment pass you by.
    It'll leave you without your faith. It'll leave you without your grace.
    It's a day of the ruins, the time of your relief. It's the day of the judgements. It's the day of your beliefs.

  27. #327
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    But that would defeat the point... I mean, it's too expensive. Big government. Personal responsibility. If they cared enough about voting they'd drive two hours to get a photo ID and like it. Something something states rights. </republican>
    It really would defeat the point if the point is to make sure that no-one can commit in-person voter fraud. The whole point of requiring photo ID is to ensure that a person's identity is properly verified. If you can get a photo ID without someone seeing you irl and confirming your identity, then you can absolutely commit in person voter fraud.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  28. #328
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    In Alabama?

    You go to the DMV (you can make an appointment ahead of time, otherwise you'll probably be waiting a while), with two forms of identification one of which must include a photo, and proof of your Social Security Number
    Fill out a form, pay a 5$ testing fee.
    Then you'll take a quick vision test, and the written driving test (40-60 questions).
    If you're ready you can then pay another $36 fee and take the road-test with a DMV test instructor, which will be abother 15-30 minutes.

    You don't have to do the road-test if you already have a license from out of state.

    Rand, you cannot do this by post or online. You can't get a state id without showing up in person either. You can renew an existing one via post or online but you can't get an original one issued.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  29. #329
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    It really would defeat the point if the point is to make sure that no-one can commit in-person voter fraud. The whole point of requiring photo ID is to ensure that a person's identity is properly verified. If you can get a photo ID without someone seeing you irl and confirming your identity, then you can absolutely commit in person voter fraud.
    Except that identity fraud is already a crime and to commit fraud like that would require bypassing a series of checks already. For each individual vote.

    Steely the proportion of people without access to the internet now is vanishingly small, like complaining about people needing access to a telephone. Certainly I suspect it's easier to get online than drive 2 hours which was the suggested alternative. Or you can use snail mail as a backup.

    LF I understand that America is still in the 20th century for documentation. Doesn't mean it has to be that way. We already can get oursonline or by post. https://www.gov.uk/apply-first-provi...re-information
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #330
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-who-are-they/

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindus...rnetusers/2016

    13% of Americans don't use the Internet, 10% in the UK.

    Obviously there's a discussion to be had there re: "don't" vs "can't", but still your statement is essentially wrong.
    I can hear your yearnings, your anguished cries. Let the nourishment pass your by.
    As it leaves you without a trace, it leaves your without the scars.
    Bitter is the end, the end of your cries. Let your nourishment pass you by.
    It'll leave you without your faith. It'll leave you without your grace.
    It's a day of the ruins, the time of your relief. It's the day of the judgements. It's the day of your beliefs.

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