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Thread: F-in Moron

  1. #1

    Thumbs down F-in Moron

    http://www.property-casualty.com/New...tion-Bill.aspx

    Florida Gov. Charlie Crist announced he would veto legislation that would allow specified insurers to use rates for homeowners insurance not subject to approval from the Office of Insurance Regulation (OIR).

    The bill, HB 447, has not passed the legislature yet; the legislative session has not yet begun, but Sterling Ivey, press secretary for Gov. Crist, said that while the session hasn’t started, the governor “is on the record as saying he will not support legislation that increases home insurance premiums.”

    The governor made his latest remarks about the bill at an Associated Press Florida event, according to a statement put out by consumer groups.

    The consumer groups reacted favorably to the news. Consumer Federation of America’s (CFA) director of insurance, Bob Hunter, said in a statement, “It is outrageous to claim that this bill falsely promises ‘consumer choice,’ when its purpose is to let insurance companies charge whatever high rate they want with no consumer protections in a market with virtually no competition. The bill is an insurance industry wolf wrapped in consumer-choice-like lamb clothing.”

    Birny Birnbaum, executive director for the Center of Economic Justice (CEJ), told NU Online that the bill is similar to legislation that passed the legislature last year but was vetoed by Gov. Crist.

    That bill would have allowed homeowners insurers to charge rates not approved by the OIR if they met certain surplus requirements.

    Mr. Birnbaum called this year’s bill a “little more far-reaching,” as the capital level limits in last year’s bill do not apply.

    “It’s unclear what you’re trying to accomplish with a deregulation bill,” Mr. Birnbaum said.

    He noted that the Florida market has shown that it is not competitive, and so competition and market forces will not lead to favorable prices for consumers. Regulatory oversight, he stated, is the only thing protecting consumers from excessive rates.

    Florida is faced with challenges, Mr. Birnbaum said, such as the cost of reinsurance and volatility in the insurance markets—where players are “gung-ho one year,” but apprehensive after a storm hits.

    Mr. Birnbaum said the legislature has taken some meaningful steps in the area of loss mitigation. “You can’t stop the wind from blowing,” he said, but retrofitting structures and implementing building codes can help minimize damage from storms.

    Sam Miller, Florida Insurance Council executive vice president, said given the governor’s veto last year, his statement was not unexpected, but noted Mr. Crist had promised his veto “based on what I know now.” This “left the door open slightly,” said Mr. Miller.

    Even though they have experienced no recent hurricane claims, “lots of insurance companies are having losses and seeing surplus dwindle. The inability to get the premium they need is one of the factors,” he noted. Mr. Miller said the legislature would be looking at this problem.


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    Can this moron be taken out already in a primary? And screw the CFA. Of course this is consumer choice. If a business says "I will charge you X Dollars for this or I can not do business in this state." And the consumer says "Well I like your company because you've always been there for me so I don't mind paying more." Government currently says "OH HELL NO THAT'S NOT A "FAIR" RATE NO WAY!" Insurance regulation essentially does this and this bill would fix that problem.

    You live in a place that has hurricanes. Some of the biggest CAT losses around the country occur in Florida. Hey guess what, your home insurance premiums SHOULD be high.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Evidently Supermarioman's Avatar
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    This is one of the rare times when I agree with you.
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  3. #3
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    Still, I am wondering why you always get so worked up about this in particular? What is it with you and houses in Florida in the path of hurricanes.

    I could very well imagine that the interests at stake are a bit bigger than those of the bottom lines of a company. For example that Florida doesn't want to see its tax-base dwindle more than it already did just because people can't get affordable insurance for their home. And yes, that's not nice for the insurance companies, but when given the choice I think a governor is held to keep the interests of his voters higher than those of insurance companies.

    And yes, maybe those houses shouldn't have been built there. But the point is, they were built, which makes them a reality you can't ignore.
    Congratulations America

  4. #4
    Still, I am wondering why you always get so worked up about this in particular? What is it with you and houses in Florida in the path of hurricanes.
    Two parts.

    1. It is an easy example to use on how government makes absolutely foolish decisions in the name of "protecting" people but ends up hurting them. Several insurance companies have limited their exposure to Florida or have left the state all together. This is bad for consumers.

    2. That F-in moron Crist is a damn Republican. This guy should totally be a Democrat.

    I could very well imagine that the interests at stake are a bit bigger than those of the bottom lines of a company. For example that Florida doesn't want to see its tax-base dwindle more than it already did just because people can't get affordable insurance for their home. And yes, that's not nice for the insurance companies, but when given the choice I think a governor is held to keep the interests of his voters higher than those of insurance companies.
    Eventually someone has to pay. The strategy FL is using is keeping rates low. And when insurance companies can't afford to pay the claims Florida will levy a tax assessment on ALL insurance policies in the state, weather or not they were in hurricane prone areas or not. In other words some poor schmucks who one a rinky dink house in the Florida interior who do NOT own beach front property get to fund the rich lavish homes on and near the coasts.


    And yes, maybe those houses shouldn't have been built there. But the point is, they were built, which makes them a reality you can't ignore.
    And they can pay through the nose for the privileged of living there. Whats worse is that when insurance companies make common sense decisions to stop carrying policies they are demonized by Crist. Furthermore some of dirty threats and tactics Crist has threatened and proposed are really low. For example requiring national chains to carry homeowners policies if they sell auto insurance. Ie we'll just subsidize home owners losses with auto insurance rates. The entire thing stinks.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Two parts.

    1. It is an easy example to use on how government makes absolutely foolish decisions in the name of "protecting" people but ends up hurting them. Several insurance companies have limited their exposure to Florida or have left the state all together. This is bad for consumers.

    2. That F-in moron Crist is a damn Republican. This guy should totally be a Democrat.



    Eventually someone has to pay. The strategy FL is using is keeping rates low. And when insurance companies can't afford to pay the claims Florida will levy a tax assessment on ALL insurance policies in the state, weather or not they were in hurricane prone areas or not. In other words some poor schmucks who one a rinky dink house in the Florida interior who do NOT own beach front property get to fund the rich lavish homes on and near the coasts.



    And they can pay through the nose for the privileged of living there. Whats worse is that when insurance companies make common sense decisions to stop carrying policies they are demonized by Crist. Furthermore some of dirty threats and tactics Crist has threatened and proposed are really low. For example requiring national chains to carry homeowners policies if they sell auto insurance. Ie we'll just subsidize home owners losses with auto insurance rates. The entire thing stinks.
    Think about how much money could be saved if there was a single insurer.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Think about how much money could be saved if there was a single insurer.
    Think what an insurer could charge if there is no competition. There goes the savings.
    The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunner View Post
    Think what an insurer could charge if there is no competition. There goes the savings.
    I agree that competition has a place in our economy, just not in insurance. By making the pool of insured as large as possible you lower the associated risk as much as possible. Multiple pools raise the risk for every pool and increases the overhead for the overall system.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  8. #8
    But, by pooling everyone together, some are forced to bear increased costs due the risks of others. The single provider would be the sole determiner of that risk and it's value/cost to the consumer. If one provider is making all the decisions for everyone, nobody but that provider benefits. It is a business afterall, and maximizing profits is what they do.
    The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunner View Post
    But, by pooling everyone together, some are forced to bear increased costs due the risks of others. The single provider would be the sole determiner of that risk and it's value/cost to the consumer. If one provider is making all the decisions for everyone, nobody but that provider benefits. It is a business afterall, and maximizing profits is what they do.
    Insurance, if you go by the definition, has no business being a business. It is a social construct; many people pooling their funds to pay for the misfortune of a few.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  10. #10
    Whether or not the definition supports the reality, insurance is a business. As a business, insurers seek to gain much and spend nothing to do it. If this means they have to deny claims and revoke policies, they do. In a single insurer system, There's no alternative, no one else to turn to if your revoked or inadequately covered. If the insurer can decide what coverage your going to get at what premium, with no customer service to speak of, take or leave it. Then the big risk pool is all on the consumer, not the provider. Insurance is supposed to provide, among other things, peace of mind. Not added stress.
    The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Insurance, if you go by the definition, has no business being a business. It is a social construct; many people pooling their funds to pay for the misfortune of a few.
    That's stupid. When you have a single provider inefficiencies of course will exist. There is only one provider for your drivers license. That is the state. So tell me how as the customer service experience you had at your local DMV?

  12. #12
    We're getting hung up on the term "insurance". Private insurance is a bit like gambling, hedging bets and trying to beat odds, offering a service while making a profit.

    When people mention "single payer" it's no longer like the traditional insurance we're used to, but more of a social contract or safety net that includes everyone, taking out the middle-men insurers to reduce the amount of money thrown around.

  13. #13
    Are you saying fewer suits=fewer bonuses=more $ left in the kitty?
    The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    That's stupid. When you have a single provider inefficiencies of course will exist. There is only one provider for your drivers license. That is the state. So tell me how as the customer service experience you had at your local DMV?
    Excellent compared to visiting the doctor's office.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    That's stupid. When you have a single provider inefficiencies of course will exist. There is only one provider for your drivers license. That is the state. So tell me how as the customer service experience you had at your local DMV?
    Actually he's right, which also explains why Florida will not change its ways just so that insurance companies can make a profit. Of course they will do their lip-service to capitalism, you can't avoind it. But the aim is to maintain the construct that is Florida's society with all it's pretty beach front properties included.

    Loose those, and you loose so much money that Florida government becomes impossible; to sacrifice Florida for bottom lines of insurance companies? I don't think so, no need to interpret any legislation as a suicide pact, not even the US Constitution.
    Congratulations America

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunner View Post
    In a single insurer system, There's no alternative, no one else to turn to if your revoked or inadequately covered.
    Even if there are alternatives you may, or at least usually, don't find out that your insurer is a dick until you file a claim and it gets denied, which could be years and thousands of dollars after initiating business with them...
    . . .

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    Even if there are alternatives you may, or at least usually, don't find out that your insurer is a dick until you file a claim and it gets denied, which could be years and thousands of dollars after initiating business with them...
    True. Thats why you do as much research as you can first. It doesn't guarantee you'll be treated the way you want, but it helps skew the odds in your favor.
    The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless

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