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Thread: The Tea Party Movement

  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Why does opposing the government automatically make someone far right? Why not call them far left?
    Would it make sense to call the Tea Party FAR LEFT?

    In the US the Left means Liberal or at least progressive. Being Right means Conservative or at least rigidly holding onto past mores. Who the hell can say with determination what the Center means? We don't have the comparison to other countries, most times they don't know what our Party affiliations mean because "Labour" and "Liberal" don't necessarily mean the same things.

    I did have an epiphany moment recently, when asked if our Constitution is a living document. Do Amendments automatically pronounce it's a living and contextual document, or is the original document a quaint biblical recipe, without regard to intent?

  2. #302
    Remind me which part of conservatism supports the violent overthrow of democratic governments or refusal to obey the government.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Dread, most of the Vietnam vets are either dead or too sick to protest. Most of our youth is now distracted with twitter and internet social networks, too busy to coordinate an angry mob in person, can they be bothered?

    The rallies and protests are mostly people with no jobs, nothing else to do, angry about losing some retirement money, but having enough income to get them to DC. ie*older white people.

    Perfect brew for the tea party. Angry older white folks. Demanding no one touch their SS or Medicare. Trying to sound anti-government, but it's really a joke (so long as they want the government to create jobs and keep their SS and Medicare solvent). They call it Freeedom, but they only want theirs, what they paid in (ignore that they took it out exponentially). Keep everyone else out.

    Then they have the nerve to say it's about our founding fathers and the constitution.
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    Geegee is right about young people, you know. It's fairly disgusting to consider how little protesting there is over our "war on terror." The extent of their involvement is to change their facebook status or become a fan of a page. And even there no one is willing to risk an idea that their friends might not agree with.
    In 2003 250,000 protesters marched against the Iraq war in NY. Another 60k in SF and a similar amount in DC I think. Massive numbers of students at my school back then walked out of school twice. People protest, you just don't see them.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Do you really think that the US doesn't have a history of political violence? I know you're thinking of the two presidents who were assassinated, but you're forgetting our history of anarchist bombings, socialist bombings the left-wing Weatherman, burnings of draft boards.

    I'm not denying that right wing idiots are saying/threatening to do violent things, just acknowledging that it's a shallow reading of things to say that, "The danger of political violence in America comes overwhelmingly from one direction -- the right, not the left."
    Was this aimed at me? Because I wasn't thinking about any presidents. In the past oh three decades, list all the political murders and murder attempts (in the US, natch) and the perpetrators' political affiliation. You win three Internets if you can tie the most left-wing terror organizations of the day (environmental groups) to political murders.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  5. #305
    It was towards OG, not you.

    But most of our political assassination attempts were made by crazy folks, like the guy who tried to shoot Regan because he thought Jodie Foster (who was 20 at the time) told him to.

  6. #306
    That's fine and well, but there seem to be a lot of these "crazy folks" in the Tea Party movement, and it certainly doesn't help that the wannabe VP spearhead of the campaign uses terms such as cross-hairs and other similar violent euphemisms when addressing an audience composed of "crazy folks" who are very fond of their guns and skills at crafting pipe-bombs. Unless you really want to start no true scotsmanning the Tea Party movement due to some bizarre devotion to right-wing causes. It's fun to watch, but the next "crazy folk" who goes and cuts up some Democrat's gas pipe might just succeed in killing or hurting someone. I'm not sure what the scotsmanning serves when contrasted against that possibility, can you enlighten me?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  7. #307
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Why does opposing the government automatically make someone far right? Why not call them far left?
    It doesn't, far left opposes the government too. What I imagine gets them the far right label is their massive protest against classic 'left wing' ideals (socialism), and push for less government more individual power. That's pretty standard rightwing ideas, except they take it a (lot) more extreme with the "the violent overthrow of democratic governments or refusal to obey the government." That last thing is neither left or right, but a means used by either far left or far right to achieve their goals.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    It doesn't, far left opposes the government too. What I imagine gets them the far right label is their massive protest against classic 'left wing' ideals (socialism), and push for less government more individual power. That's pretty standard rightwing ideas, except they take it a (lot) more extreme with the "the violent overthrow of democratic governments or refusal to obey the government." That last thing is neither left or right, but a means used by either far left or far right to achieve their goals.
    So you're defining anyone who wants to overthrow the government as right wing and are then surprised that it's right-wingers who are trying to overthrow the government?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    So you're defining anyone who wants to overthrow the government as right wing
    Except he didn't. You'll have to call again!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Except he didn't. You'll have to call again!
    "massive protest against classic 'left wing' ideals (socialism), and push for less government more individual power"

    So the right-wing is against the main things the government does according to him. Is it surprising that, using this definition, the right is the one trying to overthrow the government? Last I checked, being against government power isn't a right-wing trait. In fact, the right is known for doing whatever the government says, whether they think it's right or wrong.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    "massive protest against classic 'left wing' ideals (socialism), and push for less government more individual power"

    So the right-wing is against the main things the government does according to him. Is it surprising that, using this definition, the right is the one trying to overthrow the government? Last I checked, being against government power isn't a right-wing trait. In fact, the right is known for doing whatever the government says, whether they think it's right or wrong.
    First of all.

    Protesting against socialist measures is, naturally, protesting only against those governments that engage in socialist practices. It might be worthwhile to note here that one of the main impetuses of the whole Tea Party movement was what they perceived as grave socialist folly, the US healthcare reform. This does not mean protesting against socialism is protesting against governments in general.

    Secondly, when he said less government he meant less government intervention, ie. the standard lolbertard fare. This is protest against actions some governments have chosen to undertake, not protest against governments in general. That some of them want to overthrow the government they're under now, be it because Bama's black or the healthcare reform, doesn't mean that everyone everywhere who wants to overthrow a government is right-wing. We're not talking about a bijection here.

    The point is that a) the Tea Partiers, for the most part, agree with views that're generally perceived as right-wing (less gubment regulation on markets, healthcare and such) and 2) some of them have made noises about a rebellion. This isn't nuclear physics, Loki! And I don't much care for your attempts to obfuscate the issue with this mock-victim act, "oh you're attacking right-wingism" doesn't help the discussion at all.

    If there are left-wing organizations currently operating in the US that're making noises about overthrowing the gubment and possibly have VP wannabes as their sounding horns, you can list them if you'd like. What they have to do with the extremism displayed by the Tea Partiers is beyond me, however.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  12. #312
    I was referring to the militia types, who coincidentally disagree with the actions of all presidents, including Republican ones.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  13. #313
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    So you're defining anyone who wants to overthrow the government as right wing and are then surprised that it's right-wingers who are trying to overthrow the government?
    For someone in your field I'm surprised you can't read.

    There are several groups who want to overthrow the government, presumably. That makes them neither rightwing or leftwing. Said groups generally have beliefs that are considered either leftwing or rightwing. What I said is that the classification of the tea party people has nothing to do with them wanting to overthrow the government. What I said is that THEIR BELIEFS are generally considered right wing.

    So I'm defining anyone who wants to overthrow the government as someone who wants to overthrow the government, and anyone who has rightwing ideas as a rightwinger. And if a group displays both, I call them rightwing extremists who want to overthrow the government. If a group has leftwing ideas and wants to overhtorw the government, I call them leftwing extremists who want to overhtrow the government.

    Or are you claiming that the tea party ideas, against socialism, against immigration, against government intervention, are leftwing ideas and not rightwing?
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  14. #314
    I am saying the groups the article referred to are for the most part neither right or left wing. The article talks about violent groups, so I'm not sure why you're mentioning the Tea Party people.

  15. #315
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Sorry, got a bit confused by all the groups. Meant to talk about those militia.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    That's fine and well, but there seem to be a lot of these "crazy folks" in the Tea Party movement, and it certainly doesn't help that the wannabe VP spearhead of the campaign uses terms such as cross-hairs and other similar violent euphemisms when addressing an audience composed of "crazy folks" who are very fond of their guns and skills at crafting pipe-bombs. Unless you really want to start no true scotsmanning the Tea Party movement due to some bizarre devotion to right-wing causes. It's fun to watch, but the next "crazy folk" who goes and cuts up some Democrat's gas pipe might just succeed in killing or hurting someone. I'm not sure what the scotsmanning serves when contrasted against that possibility, can you enlighten me?
    Dread means genuinely crazy people, not just ones spouting stupid and ignorant opinions for attribution.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Dread means genuinely crazy people, not just ones spouting stupid and ignorant opinions for attribution.
    I wasn't convinced he did, hence my air quotes. Note that I'm a genuinely crazy person.

    And I was talking about people who've cut up gas pipes and overly fond of their guns; I'm not sure that alone is a sign of mental illness.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    First of all.

    Protesting against socialist measures is, naturally, protesting only against those governments that engage in socialist practices. It might be worthwhile to note here that one of the main impetuses of the whole Tea Party movement was what they perceived as grave socialist folly, the US healthcare reform.
    Except that's not true. The main impetus here is deficit spending, which is why the "Tea Parties" sprung up during the latter part of the Bush administration. The media ignored them, aside from a couple of "goofball" pieces. The media chose to put the spotlight on them when they could link their old constant protests to the new healthcare initiative, and in so doing massively increased their word-of-mouth growth, leading to the Tea Party "movement" we see right now.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Except that's not true. The main impetus here is deficit spending, which is why the "Tea Parties" sprung up during the latter part of the Bush administration. The media ignored them, aside from a couple of "goofball" pieces. The media chose to put the spotlight on them when they could link their old constant protests to the new healthcare initiative, and in so doing massively increased their word-of-mouth growth, leading to the Tea Party "movement" we see right now.
    Fair enough, I don't keep up with US politics that much. So does this make them left-wing?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Fair enough, I don't keep up with US politics that much. So does this make them left-wing?
    No. In Europe they'd probably have ended up as left-wing, but in the US, they end up as libertarian, which is mostly right-wing. I simply got tired of the frequently repeated misconception that it's all about the healthcare bill.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  21. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    No. In Europe they'd probably have ended up as left-wing, but in the US, they end up as libertarian, which is mostly right-wing. I simply got tired of the frequently repeated misconception that it's all about the healthcare bill.
    The Tea Partiers hate the health care bill because it runs up the deficit so much and they don't like taxes. That and they think the Obama administration is "taking over health care" and that's one more step toward coverting the US to Communism.
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  22. #322
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Except that's not true. The main impetus here is deficit spending, which is why the "Tea Parties" sprung up during the latter part of the Bush administration. The media ignored them, aside from a couple of "goofball" pieces. The media chose to put the spotlight on them when they could link their old constant protests to the new healthcare initiative, and in so doing massively increased their word-of-mouth growth, leading to the Tea Party "movement" we see right now.
    And to be fair to Nessus... the current Tea Party "movement" has been all but completely hijacked by the GOP and its right-wing allies, and is not a libertarian movement anymore. In fact, at a recent rally, a libertarian got beat up and thrown out for being critical of McCain. As if that's not bad enough, the headlining speaker at the most recent big "Tea Party" rally was Sarah Palin. And not only did she live to tell about it, she got big cheers from the audience.

    Seems safe to say that the movement is now officially a GOP endeavor... if only because they managed to successfully hijack it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    No. In Europe they'd probably have ended up as left-wing, but in the US, they end up as libertarian, which is mostly right-wing. I simply got tired of the frequently repeated misconception that it's all about the healthcare bill.
    Well, pardon me, but don't replace that misconception with the even worse conception that libertarians are right-wing. And also, what the fucking hell, man?!?! One of our resident political partisans making that characterization wouldn't surprise me, but... from you? You're not posting while drunk, are you?

    Libertarians are socially left wing and fiscally right wing, meaning they don't actually fit properly in the simple 2-dimensional political spectrum.

    In (pre-Bush Jr.) recent history, that's meant they tended to vote Republican [much] more than Democrat, on the promises of fiscal responsibility by the GOP. Few voted Democrat, given that the Democratic record on civil liberties is almost as bad as the Republican one... and at least the Republicans were in support of fiscal liberty. That informal arrangement was scuttled by the runaway spending under Bush Jr., and as a result, Obama actually managed to garner a significant number of "libertarian" votes with his anti-[Iraq]-war rhetoric, and the incredibly delusional belief that president B. Hussein Obama might actually reverse Bush policies like warrant-less wiretapping, indefinite detention of "terrorism" suspects, and the even more laughable hope that he might soften the War on [some] Drugs.

    Needless to say, Obama's removed any lingering questions about whether or not the Democratic party deserves any libertarian support.

    My inner naive optimist hopes this will lead to the Libertarian party (or some other libertarian-friendly 3rd party) being an actual player in American politics. If not, maybe I'll find a good deal on a few tonnes of Army-surplus C4.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    The Tea Partiers hate the health care bill because it runs up the deficit so much and they don't like taxes. That and they think the Obama administration is "taking over health care" and that's one more step toward coverting the US to Communism.
    With political insight and commentary like that, I'm completely shocked not to find you published anywhere in the politics for kids section at Barnes and Noble.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  23. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Well, pardon me, but don't replace that misconception with the even worse conception that libertarians are right-wing. And also, what the fucking hell, man?!?! One of our resident political partisans making that characterization wouldn't surprise me, but... from you? You're not posting while drunk, are you?
    I don't get drunk, Kane, on account of the fact that I don't drink. I can say "associated with the right-wing" if it would make you feel better, or expound on my personal belief that the political spectrum is more of a wheel, but it would be pointless and mildly ahistorical. Libertarianism, in the US, is by and large an ideology on the right "side" of our politics, and for the most part always has been, through the four *five?* major realignments of US partisan/ideological structure *things do get hard to categorize during the period immediately preceding the Civil War* That doesn't mean it is inherently right-wing, as I said in that section you quoted similar sentiments were mostly on the Left in Europe, but that is the generalized position for us.

    Libertarians are socially left wing and fiscally right wing, meaning they don't actually fit properly in the simple 2-dimensional political spectrum.
    Nothing fits properly in that. Just consider the 70s-80s informal alliance of the right-wing bible thumpers and the comintern from shared principles of charity development.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  24. #324
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    I don't get drunk, Kane, on account of the fact that I don't drink.
    You don't make statements about politics which sound like they're coming from OminousGamer, either.

    So when you did, I naturally assumed it must be related to something else you don't do.... like drink.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    I can say "associated with the right-wing" if it would make you feel better,
    Not really. "Incorrectly associated with the right-wing" would be satisfactory, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    or expound on my personal belief that the political spectrum is more of a wheel, but it would be pointless and mildly ahistorical. Libertarianism, in the US, is by and large an ideology on the right "side" of our politics, and for the most part always has been, through the four *five?* major realignments of US partisan/ideological structure *things do get hard to categorize during the period immediately preceding the Civil War* That doesn't mean it is inherently right-wing, as I said in that section you quoted similar sentiments were mostly on the Left in Europe, but that is the generalized position for us.
    And one would hate to correct a generalized position, as that would be tantamount to truth, which can all agree is a completely unacceptable outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Nothing fits properly in that. Just consider the 70s-80s informal alliance of the right-wing bible thumpers and the comintern from shared principles of charity development.
    And the fact that nothing fits properly into it [anymore] is a strong argument for its continued use, if ever there was one.

    Anyway, I somehow missed the below gem in my skimming of the mind-numbingly idiotic first part of this thread, so better late than never.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    We already have a Constitution Party, why don't they join that?
    So many reasons, really... but the fact that they're thinly disguised religious fundamentalists is probably near the top of my list. Either that or the fact that they wouldn't know the US Constitution if I was beating them to death with it.


    Highlights (from their official party platform) include, but are not limited to:


    John Adams, 2nd President and signer of the Declaration of Independence warned:
    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

    (For the historically unaware, John Adams was also the president who used the Alien and Sedition Acts to have his political opponents, primarily Jefferson supporters, jailed for "unpatriotic" speech. Adams failed to be re-elected to a second term... and Jefferson became the 3rd POTUS.)

    --------------------------------------

    The pre-born child, whose life begins at fertilization, is a human being created in God's image. The first duty of the law is to prevent the shedding of innocent blood. It is, therefore, the duty of all civil governments to secure and to safeguard the lives of the pre-born.

    ...

    Finally, we also oppose all government "legalization" of euthanasia, infanticide and suicide.

    (Good thing someone is willing to stand up and defend the state's right to control your body, and even your very life itself.)
    --------------------------------------

    Public respect and esteem toward public officials has fallen to a shameful level. The Constitution Party finds that a cause of this national state of disgrace is the deterioration of personal character among government leaders, exacerbated by the lack of public outcry against immoral conduct by public office holders.

    (Oh noes! Teh sekz! Won't somebody pleeeeeeeease think of the children?!?!?)
    --------------------------------------

    The Constitution Party will uphold the right of states and localities to restrict access to drugs and to enforce such restrictions. We support legislation to stop the flow of illegal drugs into these United States from foreign sources. As a matter of self-defense, retaliatory policies including embargoes, sanctions, and tariffs, should be considered.

    (Prohibition - now with "retaliatory policies!")
    --------------------------------------

    All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith.

    (Oh, good... I was worried they might believe in science, or something crazy like that.)
    --------------------------------------

    It is our responsibility to be prudent, productive, and efficient stewards of God's natural resources. In that role, we are commanded to be fruitful and multiply, and to replenish the earth and develop it (e.g., to turn deserts into farms and wastelands into groves). This requires a proper and continuing dynamic balance between development and conservation, between use and preservation.

    (Well, at least they have a good reason for "conservation" - God told them to do it.)
    --------------------------------------

    The law of our Creator defines marriage as the union between one man and one woman. The marriage covenant is the foundation of the family, and the family is fundamental in the maintenance of a stable, healthy and prosperous social order. No government may legitimately authorize or define marriage or family relations contrary to what God has instituted.

    (More good news! No worries about "godless" notions of freedom and liberty from these assholes!)
    --------------------------------------

    Gambling promotes an increase in crime, destruction of family values, and a decline in the moral fiber of our country.

    (Clearly not a bunch of moralistic fucktards...)
    --------------------------------------

    We oppose the abuse of the H-1B and L-1 visa provisions of the immigration act which are displacing American workers with foreign.

    We favor a moratorium on immigration to these United States

    (Foreigners are stealing all our jobs; seal the borders, quick!)
    --------------------------------------

    We particularly support all the legislation which would remove from Federal appellate review jurisdiction matters involving acknowledgement of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.

    We commend Former Chief Justice Roy Moore of the Alabama Supreme Court for his defense of the display of the Ten Commandments, and condemn those who persecuted him and removed him from office for his morally and legally just stand.

    (Heathens, heathens, everywhere!)
    --------------------------------------

    Pornography, at best, is a distortion of the true nature of sex created by God for the procreative union between one man and one woman in the holy bonds of matrimony, and at worst, is a destructive element of society resulting in significant and real emotional, physical, spiritual and financial costs to individuals, families and communities. We call on our local, state and federal governments to uphold our cherished First Amendment right to free speech by vigorously enforcing our laws against obscenity to maintain a degree of separation between that which is truly speech and that which only seeks to distort and destroy.

    (We must use the 1st Amendment... to censor things we don't like! )
    --------------------------------------

    We favor the abolition of the Office of Special Trade Representative, and insist on the withdrawal of these United States from the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), the World Trade Organization (WTO), and all other agreements wherein agencies other than the Congress of these United States improperly assume responsibility for establishing American trade policies.

    ...

    We see our country and its workers as more than bargaining chips for multinational corporations and international banks in their ill-conceived and evil New World Order.

    (Well, the return to protectionism and failed mercantile policies of the 1800's is unappealing... but they are willing to protect me from the evil NWO.)
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  25. #325
    My inner naive optimist hopes this will lead to the Libertarian party (or some other libertarian-friendly 3rd party) being an actual player in American politics. If not, maybe I'll find a good deal on a few tonnes of Army-surplus C4.
    Conversely, a lot of the folk on the left are naively hoping that the Tea Party will serve as some kind of ice float for the fringe elements of the Pubbies (who seem to have been running the Pubbie show for some time now), thinking that this'd isolate the nut-jobs from mainstream politics and push them into the obscurity of third-party politics. You know as well as I do that the two main parties in the US will keep the two-party system alive as long as they can, because it serves their interests.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  26. #326
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Conversely, a lot of the folk on the left are naively hoping that the Tea Party will serve as some kind of ice float for the fringe elements of the Pubbies (who seem to have been running the Pubbie show for some time now), thinking that this'd isolate the nut-jobs from mainstream politics and push them into the obscurity of third-party politics.
    Yeah, I had read that somewhere, but the author was one of those HuffPo "fringe elements" (of the Democratic party) who had evidently never heard the adage about rocks and glass houses, so I just chuckled and moved on.

    Should have known better. Oh well. It seems unfair, somehow, to begrudge the right-wing loonies their opportunity to take over the GOP ever since the left-wing loonies took over the DNC. <shrug>

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    You know as well as I do that the two main parties in the US will keep the two-party system alive as long as they can, because it serves their interests.
    But my hope for clearance prices on wholesale quantities of Army ordinance sustains me through that dark, depressing reality. Say... you don't pass any poorly guarded munitions depots on your way to work, do you?
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  27. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    With political insight and commentary like that, I'm completely shocked not to find you published anywhere in the politics for kids section at Barnes and Noble.
    Well, the short answer was they oppose it because they heard they should on AM radio and Fox News, but nobody likes to believe that around here. The part that I did post came right from a Tea Partier's mouth and several chain emails he's sent me over the past few months that make the rounds among his fellow morons. Maybe you get them too? In any case, what I posted was right from the movement. Call it stupid if you want, 'cause I agree with you. They are stupid.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  28. #328
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Swing and a miss.

    Care to try again?
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  29. #329
    You don't get the chain emails?
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  30. #330
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    You don't get the chain emails?
    Oh, your knowledge of and insights into politics comes from spam. That certainly clears up a few things.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

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