Which is why the sentences following the quote explain that I like this.Originally Posted by RandBlade
Which is why the sentences following the quote explain that I like this.
. . .
But no culture exists without concepts of "right or wrong".
That's not what I said at all. I said cultural diversity is good, and different perspectives have equal value. By that I meant languages, foods or music, family traditions, religions, etc. Your post about modern lib'rul crap and cultural inferiority was a direct reply to wiggin saying:Saying all perspectives have equal opinion means that the opinion that homogeneity is superior to diversity has equal weight as your opinion. Regardless of any arguments, discussion or additional points of view they will always be equal. And that's bull shit.
The US is a land of immigrants, and I think it's unreasonable and unfair to expect people to check their other identities - national, religious, or ethnic - at the door when they enter. We are greatly enriched by the diversity of perspectives in our country, and I strongly prefer a country that celebrates and benefits from the strengths of a variety of cultures rather than just one.
How you turned cultural "identity" into "cultural inferiority" was the big honkin' conflation I wanted you to address. But you answered by making an even broader judgement statement --- that other cultures don't even know right from wrong!?
Of course not.As others have pointed out -do you consider a culture that treats women as near slaves to be equal to cultures that do not? Do you think a culture that supports strapping bombs on children is equal to one that values children?But I also don't think it's a "superior" culture that would limit comprehensive public sex-ed/family planning/birth control, deny "certain" children (read poor) basic healthcare, nutritional or educational needs, or use austerity measures to starve ANYTHING public.....and somehow think that's not the moral equivalent of de-valuing children. It's a different kind of bomb, and blood, with the same sad results.
Besides, we were talking about assimilating cultures, including not only tolerance but acceptance (or as wiggin said, a "celebration") of others' national/religious/ethnic diversity, but how that has been our American tradition.
Depends on what you're measuring, what's "Other", and what's "better" than. Seemed to me you took some things out of context, in regards to cultural diversity and changing demographics in the US. You jumped on the morality wagon pretty fast, and I was hoping you'd explain Why.And while Enoch is right I do believe in a higher power and objective morality, even an atheist can agree that some cultures are better than others. You'd have to agree to an objective measurement - but if you refuse to even come up with a measurement then the discussion is completely futile and worthless.
And we're back to defining things on the basis of "how much I approve of them".
Hope is the denial of reality
We're back to the original OP. Does it matter if US "white" births have reached minority status, when we've known for at least 30 years that was the likely trajectory?
Is there something wrong by becoming a more diverse nation, with interracial and interethnic co-mingling....and "white caucasians" becoming the new minority?
(When I was a US Census enumerator in 1990, there was a 'Caucasian' racial category box to check. Many didn't even know what that meant. Anyone who'd leave those ethnic and/or racial categories blank on their mail-in form meant an enumerator would make a home visit. I was surprised at the number of people who'd call themselves "Scotch"Many blacks had refused to check "African-American", if their ancestors were from Caribbean nations or French territories. Black "Latino" could mean anything from Cuban to Spanish or Mexican....or Puerto-Rican.
Hope is the denial of reality
In and of itself, without context, it does not. However, the context is what matters. The squeeze of social safety net spending from both the old and kids having kids -- that's the story behind the numbers.
If you're referring to birth rates, then it's probably a "good thing" that minority groups can off-set white/caucasians who aren't reproducing at population replacement levels.
GGT, GGT, GGT. I'm referring to what I always do! Old people spending tons of money in a system going bankrupt, and kids spending tons of money in a system going bankrupt, and having more kids. (instead of edumacating themselves and adding tax dollars to the economy via jobs* (???))
* Which don't exist. But, really, what benefit is it to society to depress the lawn mowing and retail sector via a flood of low wage job-seekers when they could be manufacturing and actually producing something? Which they can't because our manufacturing jobs have been moved overseas to pay for cheap goods that these job-seekers can buy with their public assistance money... yay...
Offshore manufacturing is a good thing.
Rand: Sure, theoretically, totally agreed... basic Ricardian model. The assumptions built into saying that free trade in labor and goods are huge, though. A few big ones: similar environmental regulations, and even distribution of wealth.
We absolutely know that distribution of wealth in a free market is not even, and that theoretically it's a bell-shaped curve. Even theoretically this means that the rich benefit vastly more than everyone else from free trade. Nothing wrong with this in and of itself, really. But.. blah blah blah...
...and the US has massive unemployment, very little manufacturing, large chunks of the population not having critical thinking skills, the emerging moral hazard* of feeding, clothing, and housing these kids having kids who contribute little to the economy.
Then, there is the harm that this does to the government, especially to the local government: It's very easy to sway with fear and the promise of money large homogenous blocs on government assistance and then pilfer the hell out of your city and/or run the city incredibly ineptly. Thus, continuing the cycle.
Overall, then, a continuing demographic, cultural, and economic crisis.
* Thanks for reminding me of the word, Loki!
Last edited by agamemnus; 05-26-2012 at 01:45 PM.
There is no need for similar environmental regulations. Unless you're worried about global problems, if the Chinese are willing to put up with smog and we're not then fair enough, the Chinese will ultimately decide (and already are starting to decide) that the smog is a price not worth paying for. That decision needs to evolve, you can't enforce it.
Furthermore I believe that unemployment is mainly caused by people not willing to get the jobs that are available, than there not being jobs available.
The irony is that the jobs that have been exported are most often the shittiest jobs that people didn't actually enjoy and today's generations wouldn't want. In the 80's the old coal pits closed in the UK to much furore and rage from the left, but you tell today's dole bludgers to get down in a mine and get coal in their face and they wouldn't.
I think it's preferable for the economy for the dole bludgers to go and mine instead of dole "bludging", though...
Uhm, you're making a lot of inferences that don't necessarily have anything to do with our changing racial demographics.
But the bolded part about Education matters quite a bit. Unfortunately for us, in the US, there will always be a bias in school district funding --- and quality of education --- so long as we continue to tether it to property value taxes. The poorer districts with low housing values can't get the local revenue needed, and depend on extra county, state and federal dollars. Just when all those budgets are being cut.
And let's be frank, we all know those "poorer" districts usually mean large numbers of non-white minority groups in urban and ex-urban hubs.
And I disagree. It cost more to have them mine than import it/use non-coal power generation. Cut the dole cheques so they want to work.
The Chinese not really have a say, they only can vote with their feet. It's true that they start to improve there to, but it is reasonable, bad environment means bad economy in medium and long terms.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
And that is an evolution they will have, like we had 200 years ago. We can no more enforce our views on them, as they can on us.
Bull. China can find their rapid "evolution" when we, as buyers of their imports, decide it's not worth having cheap sneakers or t-shirts --- or slightly more expensive iPads or iPhones --- if it comes at the much higher "price" of out-sourcing jobs, or exploiting foreign child labor or sweat shops.
Good luck with that.
I'm talking bull? I think you'll find the Chinese deciding they don't want smog, want minimum standards etc (which is already happening) easier and quicker than convincing the entire world that "out-sourcing jobs is bad" so they should pay for more expensive products instead (not happening).
Work where? Almost all my neighbors already get their lawns blown and cut twice a week. A week ago, there were three joses using 80dB leafblowers to move dirt on the street, at the same time, for about two hours. I LOVE IT...
Get them to the mines, and economically force people to cut their own lawns. Then most of them will realize that they really don't want to use a 80dB gas-powered leafblower to move tiny specs of dirt off a public street for free... yes, I'm kind of meandering now....
I actually sent in a letter to some Massachusetts elected officials outlining a proposal for a dB tax on landscaping equipment and other measures. I did get a phone call back from one of them (an aide) with a brief question (do I want a tax, or do I want the usage limited), and I said both. Not a peep now...
You want to effectively reduce people's real incomes - why not just skip some steps and reduce the minimum wage?
Or just create a new 50% payroll tax.
Hope is the denial of reality
As much as we can we need to let natural outsourcing happen naturally. Then our workers to be trained over time in the areas which we have a compartive advantage.
The only caveats to this rule are indeed global concerns, what if key parts of the world stopped trading with us, we should maintain some sort of infrastucture to rely on. Additionally if we're concerned about global warming or treatment of others in other countries, someone betraying us, then it can matter greatly who we buy what from, and who we sell to. I wouldn't sell weapons to a country I'm at war with. etc...
How long has that ever happened to any great power?what if key parts of the world stopped trading with usEven the Soviet Union reached a rapprochement with the rest of the world after a few years, and it was still actively trying to overthrow everyone's governments.
Hope is the denial of reality
It's funny. If you go visit a tribe in Kenya, you would expect a black native to be polite in his own surroundings. Granted, he'd offer much more hospitality toward foreigners than an American or Norwegian would. Yet when you place him in a hood and snickers, add the fact that he has droppd out of college and lives in the U.S., color suddenly becomes an issue.
I don't believe in seperation through color. As I look at it, I am more afraid of isolation in the form of groups which I consider to be less "sophisticated" than me. Rednecks are just as intimidating to me as the ghetto blacks, as they represent values that are foreign and in my opinion less educated than mine. When a group of black people strand themselves together and work out a culture to make them unique (typically fashion, language, music), you fear what it will bring when they outnumber your own twist on things. Why? Because it seems as if they've created that culture as an opposition to what is already there.
Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?
The reason most newborns aren't white isn't because of more black babies; it's because of more Hispanic babies.
Hope is the denial of reality
Does it matter? It was a reference that can be used for general. I don't carry any hatred or grief toward any race, but forwarded that cultural differences can lead to separation and skin tone an excuse to fall into such groups.
Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?
I feel I have more in common culturally with a hard working Asian, than a white chav.
Okay great but a white chav probably feels he has more in common with other white chavs than he does with black chavs, and no doubt you have more in common with hard-working white men than you do with hard-working Pakistani women. What are you trying to do, dispute the reality that skin-colour can be a very important focus for a group's identity?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
No, dispute the fact that it is.Okay great but a white chav probably feels he has more in common with other white chavs than he does with black chavs, and no doubt you have more in common with hard-working white men than you do with hard-working Pakistani women. What are you trying to do, dispute the reality that skin-colour can be a very important focus for a group's identity?
It can be, doesn't mean it always is. I grew up going to a school in Australia that was totally mixed race, lots of immigrants of all colours. I would no more consider skin colour any more inately important than hair colour.
Rand: http://www.cnbc.com/id/47614988
Plenty of people willing to mine instead of sit on the dole if there was just a chance.At the Hyundai plant in Montgomery, Alabama more than 20,000 people have applied for one of the 877 job openings.
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