Do you want to explain why a political entity that has significant autonomy, particularly as it relates to its political institutions, is somehow unable to hold democratic elections just because it is not sovereign (which refers to external recognition, not internal control)?
Hope is the denial of reality
It's fairly complicated, as you know. "Democratic" elections have to first distinguish districts and borders. As we all know, those district lines can by gerrymandered in "free and democratic USA", and still be problematic. What would constitute a "Palestinian" voter group...or their voting district....when the very dispute is about land and political borders?Originally Posted by Loki
The Palestinians did that...plus half of the seats in their parliament were based on national party lists...
Hope is the denial of reality
Okay...and? Are you saying Israelis haven't breached previous land/border agreements?
As I recall, Israel allowed Palestinians living in what Israel deems to be its own territory to vote in Palestinian elections. Do you have an actual point?
Hope is the denial of reality
Yes. Borders, and border encroachment. Israel didn't decide its own borders as they saw fit, for their own purposes. The very creation of Israel, as a sovereign nation, required international support and plenty of diplomacy and negotiations. The same holds true for people fighting for a Palestinian nation.
It's effectively a border dispute. Israel may think they've "allowed" Palestinians to live in what they've deemed Israeli territory.....but only after they've expanded beyond previous agreements, and built into the Gaza strip.
For what it's worth, both conflicts made the evening news here.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Which of the two is getting a vast majority of the attention?
Hope is the denial of reality
In our news both get ample attention. But I think it's time to address this constant whining we get when Israeli actions are addressed in the media. I think it takes a huge dose of dishonesty to treat the news about Israel and Palestine as about the same as a bunch if criminals in Congo; last time I checked the DRC did not get support and aid from the USA to pursue policies that by and large are prolonging the conflict and make a solution harder to achieve.
Congratulations America
Tel Aviv bus bomb blast
No arguments there. I thought it was interesting anyway, though. The latest I heard from the Congo was that the UN forces, having declined to engage the rebels moving to take the city, managed to get themselves surrounded in an airport.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Not to mention it's closer to home, and not just geographically.
Also you can hardly be surprised there's more reporting on bombings in the gaza strip, since the death toll is what, 140 vs 5? And for what it's worth, about half of the report was on living in Israel under the threat of rockets, so it's not like it's ignored.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
One under-discussed implication of this conflict (and its ending) is that Erdogan has shot himself in both kneecaps by maintaining his rabid attacks against Israel. Erdogan thought that he could make friends in the Middle East by sticking it to Israel, but as a result, he got outmaneuvered by Morsi. Now if someone wants a deal in the Middle East, they fly to Cairo not Ankara. Within a few years, Erdogan managed to go from a policy of no regional enemies, to one of no regional friends and no relevance.
Hope is the denial of reality
Well, he's still managed to make Turkey popular, but for all the wrong reasons.
Congratulations America
Maybe popular on the "street", but also resented in most of the capitals (including the semi-democratic ones). And push comes to shove, he's still a Turk.
He doesn't seem to realize that his position in the Arab world was based on his ability to put pressure on the US and Israel, not because of Turkey's public positions or military strength. Now that is far less the case than it was before.
Hope is the denial of reality
Yeah, well now that Egypt is back in its leadership role in the Arab world again, his dreams of a muslim sphere are dead in the water. But by flapping his mouth in a way a person without any refinement would do he still gets the hands together in the street in Arab. But as you pointed out; nobody in a position of power cares too much any longer about what he has to say about the Middle East. And in the case of Morsi, not caring is something that comes without any costs at all.
Congratulations America
I'm hoping he has Turkey invade Syria. It will help the Syrian civilians while making his own position in Turkey untenable.
Hope is the denial of reality
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